The End of the world and your insight interpreting the scriptures.

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 11 Jul 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

meatbox666	11 Jul 2002
Here you can interpret bible verses and tell everyone what you think. Have fun.

Temperance413	11 Jul 2002
Okay loose translation, In Genesis God says, WE will make them in Our image. Male AND female WE will make them. Who was God talking to? Does it make sense that there is one male God and nothing else? I think not. i think this supports the fact that the higher power is both male and female, a balance of light and dark, and that the religions that made the Male God Rule is not quite correct. Sorry, just my opinion. But this is one thing that has bothered me. Thanks for listening:)

Fox	11 Jul 2002
I kind of think people take the bible too literally. Wouldn't it make sense that the stories in the bible are more symbolic than anything, kind of like fables - or even tarot cards? - only opinion, of course. It's been years since I read the bible, but it has some pretty cool stories. I'm not a Christian but I love books, and this one's as good as any.

meatbox666	12 Jul 2002
Temperance: The " let us make yadda yadda" bible verse is puzzeling. God created man and then took out his rib and made a woman: I hear the Angels are hemaphodites. (G)od may be one. Maybe that is why he made male and female to seperate his dual nature in the physical realm? Does any one want to fine tune this? Anyone want to take a stab at this? What do you think? Oh gosh, maybe that is why is said he made us perfectly because he felt being a hermaphrodite was screwed. Hell I dont know. Give insight pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

bellesmybaby	12 Jul 2002
I don't have much insight, Meatbox, just alot of questions. I currently do not own a bible, I used to when I was a hard core Christian, then I kindof had an inquisition/bookburning. Kindof threw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak! Now I realize there is some true wisdom in the bible as long as you are not dogmatic with it and too religious. I have heard though, that when God said let's create man in our image he was speaking to the other 2 of the Triune Godhead-being the Father-son-holyghost. What do you think of all the other symbols in the Garden. What is the Garden, besides a physical location? Who was Adam and Eve, really? What does the apple represent? the serpent? the tree of life? the tree of knowledge? Is it all Qabalistic? Dee

Liliana	12 Jul 2002
Well, its been said the first time when God created man and woman he did so at the same time, hence the tales of Adams first wife Lilith. Not in the Bible but in Jewish tradition, which is of course what Christianity sprang from. Apparently they had some marital problems about her wanting to be on top during sex, eventually she said Gods Unspeakable Name and flew away somewhere or another, and now gives birth to demons. Dont know the story too well. After that is when the whole rib thing and Eve took place. Now I wonder where all these wives for Adam and Eves kids are coming from..... :THP

meatbox666	12 Jul 2002
I feel the garden was a physical place. There is the element Carbon found in oil. I am assuming oil contains carbon because it is black. The garden was in mespotamia..the tigris euphrates river. Well, all of those living trees and animals died and were buried over time with the sand. Oil developed over time there and there are tons of it in that region. The carbon in the oil I feel came from the living things. *shrugs* even though oil is inorganic. I do not have an answer regarding a symbolic significance regarding the garden. I feel Adam and Eve were real humans. I do not have an answer regarding a spiritual significance for their existence. Adam lived for a while. Gen 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begatton Seth were 800 years. That is alot of time to father plenty of children. Now before he had Seth he had children and they had children . Alot of time elasped. Now about the serpent. The serpent was cursed to roam on its belly. I have no idea how he moved around before that curse. He could have shown Eve how to copulate with the air. That would be masturbation. *shrugs* Any ideas what the fruit could be? I guessed masturbation. Gen 3:14 Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle and above every beast of the field, upon thy belly thou shalt go, and dust thou shalt eat all the days of thou life. I have not a clue regarding the tree of life: cant speak on that. Somebody else answer. I heard about Lilith in the Satanic Bible. She was Adams first wife. I read that she was Adams first wife. I got that from the Satanic Bible but I have never read the Torah to speak about the contents therein. It said that she showed Adam the ropes and went off to be with Sammauel. Anyone know anything about this?

Mermaid	12 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Liliana Well, its been said the first time when God created man and woman he did so at the same time, hence the tales of Adams first wife Lilith. According to Jewish legend, Lilith is represented by a snake. Some scholars think that when God says his bit about "I will put enmity between the snake and the woman" he was talking about the enmity between Eve (the good christian wife) and Lilith (the whore). Also, about the debate over the number of people that are 'meant' to be on the Lovers card (Older decks sometimes have three figures, generally have a man choosing between two women, whereas the decks with two people on just have two lovers.) The RW is normally given as an example of a deck with a Lovers card with only two people on. But has anyone noticed the snake around the tree behind one of the figures on the RW card? I reckon the Golden Dawn meant it to represent Lilith - and Adam on the card is choosing between her and Eve. What do you guys think?

meatbox666	12 Jul 2002
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Yes, yes, that makes sense. That totally makes sense. i wish i could elaborate but I cannot. I want to hear more.

MeeWah	12 Jul 2002
I understand the bible can be read on more than one level. That is, as a historical record; as an allegory; as prophecy. The figures may represent Adam & Eve or mankind & its two species. Tthe snake represents knowledge. If the snake also represents Lilith, then she may personify the abuse of that knowledge. The tree behind the woman is red to represent the desire mind or the nature of man to want. The tree also represents the physical body, with the snake representing knowledge or the kundalini, the life force that is also the sexual energy depending on how it is channeled or used (such as when raised through meditation). It traverses the length of the spinal column from the base of the spine (tree base) at the root chakra level, which is the site of the gonads/reproductive organs to the brain (the green foliage of the tree). The 5 apples on the tree refer to the 5 physical senses with which man relates to & learns from his world. The black tree behind the man is black representing the physical/material world. The 12 flames may represent the 12 astrological types of mankind; 12 tribes of Israel or perfection. The flames are red (desire, passion) & yellow (intellect, reason) to indicate balance between the opposing qualities. As The Lovers card pertains to choices, then it could depict man being faced with reconciling the duality of the existence; choosing between two aspects of base emotions/attachment to the physical or aspiring to a higher state of being.

meatbox666	13 Jul 2002
I have heard of the Kundalini Serpent and I believe that I experienced it when chanting. Here is my experience. I chanted a chant to protect myself from evil and unknown entities. I have been doing so for a long time prior to my experience with the Kundalini. So, I did not fire it up the first time I started chanting it was over a period of time. Well, one particular time during chanting I really got into it. (This when I finally realized I chanted correctly) I started to notice the vibration of my voice and it made me chant faster and intone deeper( think of a record going backward) Well, all of a sudden I felt a sensation at the base of my spine and it traveled midway to my back. It felt good and scary. I began to feel more afraid than good so I stopped chanting. I looked at the clock and an hour had passed. It did not feel like an hour had past but it did. I tried to get the sensation again but I could never do it. That was five years ago and I still cannot today. What do you feel would have happened if I allowed the sensation to go to my brain? I was afraid I could not risk. I remember reading some where on Aeclectic that the Devil card is the opposite of the Lovers. Explain why please.? The reason I say this is because Meewah stated the black tree representing the material world.

bellesmybaby	13 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by meatbox666 It felt good and scary. I began to feel more afraid than good so I stopped chanting. I looked at the clock and an hour had passed. It did not feel like an hour had past but it did. I tried to get the sensation again but I could never do it. That was five years ago and I still cannot today. What do you feel would have happened if I allowed the sensation to go to my brain? I was afraid I could not risk. Wow! I wish I could do that! I had an Out of Body experience spontaneously once or twice (afew years ago) and have not been able to do it again. I hate when things work out like that. When you experience something like that you think "Wow, I am upon a new threshold, a doorway finally opened, that I can enter anytime I want to now that I've done it once" only to be met with dissappointment, then obsession to figure out how to do it again!! I have heard that Kundalini rising can be dangerous. What would happen if you let it go all the way to your brain? I think it would depend on whether you kept feeling that fear or not. You would either have a monumental mystic, ecstatic experience and be quite a bit more enlightened or you would have went nuts, or a little bit more nuts! Just kidding, I mean that in an endearing way, you are one of my most favorite people in this forum because you are a little bit.........ahem...............different. Dee

MeeWah	13 Jul 2002
Meatbox: There are at least 2 topics within your last post. I am posting separately to them. The experience during the raising of personal energy is very subjective so it is a wee difficult to say exactly what could have happened had you continued. That is, depending on the individual perception, it could manifest differently such as with sensory, visual &/or audio effects. It could be a feeling of euphoria; a weightlessness/floating sensation; a vision; an idea; an out-of-body experience; so on. Based on your account, it seems the energy responded to a particular vibrational tone. Had you continued, you could have experienced a "mind-blowing" episode which could have taken any or none of the forms mentioned above. If you have not been able to re-create the experience, it does not necessarily mean that you are doing something wrong; however, looking to repeat that particular sensory effect is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Whatever the means to raise energy, whether it be through chant, meditation or some other practice, 'tis the purpose behind same that influences or "fuels" the experience. In seeking an "effect", one limits the self's progress in that endeavor. 'Tis possible that there is an unconscious fear of the unknown that was retained from that singular experience of years ago. That is not an unusual reaction as it pertains to the giving up of the self & the control of self to a higher force.

MeeWah	13 Jul 2002
Meatbox: This regards your query about The Devil being the opposite of The Lovers; however, I am not sure how your reference to the black tree on The Lovers relates to this. Based on the concept of Tarot Lifetime Cards, The Devil is seen as a shadow card in relation to The Lovers. The concept was originated by Angeles Arrien & expanded upon by Mary K. Greer. This is a wee complicated to discuss on this thread, so I suggest you search Talking Tarot for an old thread under "The Shadow Card". Outside of the referenced concept, The Devil can be seen as The Lovers' opposite due to their opposing qualities. In a nutshell, The Devil pertains to sensuality; The Lovers to spirituality--as in carnal love as opposed to divine love; selfishness versus service. Those are by no means the only meanings or definitions that may be attributed to both, but offered to give a sense of the type of energy involved.

Kismet	23 Jul 2002
What do I make of the end of the world and the Bible? I believe it to be true as it is written. I also believe that over the years and through changes in various governments and Kings/Emporers text has been removed or changed. But I do believe that Revelations will occure. I watched a fascinating show a few weeks back on Prophecy and the Bible where various scientists, religious reps, etc, were on and had come to the conclusion there were 1,000 prophecies and at that time we were on 666, hum..... Anyway, over the years I have had questions, still do, as I lean a tinge towards reincarnation as well, as a matter of fact I found a fabulous article saying the Bible spoke throughout it of reincarnation til 500-600 AD when a ruler banned it and had it removed. I have more I could share but am getting wordy. :) God Bless and Love & Light, Kismet

meatbox666	28 Jul 2002
I cannot remember the scripture regarding reincarnation verbatum(sp) but it said "man has only one life to live, after which comes death then the judgement".

jonesy	28 Jul 2002
hello all, i sent exerts from my tangents to meatbox. i do not know if it will make sense or not but this question about gods and the bible nd other such info is covered in the tangent series that i have been writing for my book. i would be glad to send them to anyne who would like a differing oppinion from the norm on these things. the responses to the questions have much more in depth knowledge than this forum will allow to be printed (charicter-wise) if you wish for me to send them just ask and i would be happy to send them tjrough to you love jonesy jonesy@frontier.net

meatbox666	30 Jul 2002
Please post them here. In your pm I believe in angels. There are nine choirs of angels. You spoke of the Els, Well it so happens that the nine choirs of angels representatives end with el. Mettron, Jopheil, Zaphekiel, Canael, Raphael, Haneil, Micheal, Gabriel,and Anima Messia. I believe in God and I recognize other coorperative spirits. Now, I never heard Els represented as beings or angels. I tried to figure since the angels ended with el, then those are the Els? I have heard of the Semiphoras and that contains els in the spellings. EHeie, aser Eheie Cether elion, Jehovah, Jod, vel Jah Tetragrammaton Elohim El Elohim ElohaElohim Sabaoth Sadai Elhay Adonay Melech ???? You have to tell me more because this is the first I have ever heard of the Els or referred to as Els? Anyone?

meatbox666	30 Jul 2002
The name Adonay Melech seems awfully familiar to Molech, the god of the Ammorties in the bible. Has anyone noticed? Well, I did but this is what I gathered concerning that name and the scriptures. That has been on my mind for a while and now I am going to post my thoughts regarding that particular name. Le 18:21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thy profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord (pass through the fire means to put your kids in that fire ) Lev 20:2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Isreal, whosoever he be of the children of Isreal, or of the strangers that sojourn in Isreal, that giveth his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death:the people of the land shall stone him with stones.

meatbox666	30 Jul 2002
Uh, theres more:d Le 20:3 And I will set my face against that man and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary and to profane my holy name. Okay Leviticus is long and Molech's name is everywhere in that book of the bible. In the Cabbalah(sp) Adonay Melech(I really think this is Molech's name. Molechhhhhhhh stop hiding behind that name) Melech's number is Malchat or Malkuth which is the tenth Ziperot. His Representative is the Intelligentia Metratron. Or is Melech, Molech and Metraton the same entity that people sacrificed their children too of Ammon. You can find Metraton in the Lemegetton or the Lesser Keys of Solomon and it is true that Solomon consorted with him. 1Kings 11:7 Then did Solomon build a high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab in the hill that is before Jeruselem and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.

jonesy	30 Jul 2002
meatbox their are al energies on energies and el energies. they are in essence the energies of creation. the ons as in oberon metatron terron etc. are pure cosmic creative energies of worlds throughourt the universe. again information is too numerouse for words in this forum but will give you the readers digest version. the el energies are found in the third level of four of the levels of perception. the levels are not to be mistaken for the seven plains of existence. the universal life field. (ulf) is composed of a countless number of levels of perception, each pertining to particular types of life functions. these levels have been devided into four main groups. the molar level, micro, macro and megalevels. these levels are subdevided into what are called L-fields. for more on L-fields check out Dr. Raymond Saxon Burrs book called life fields. we are presently residing in the molar level of perception. (physical plain) this is physical reality using the five senses. the brain is a molar level translater of these senses and on occation a motivator causing the body to seek stimulation by touch. though the brain is molar, the mind is not. the mind and its thoughts are of the micro level. when a person dies the psyche of that individual resides in the micro or (etherical, astral, and mental plains of existence). i can go into this level more if you wish at a later date. i want to get to the els question that you had. the macro level is the realm of the Els. the plural term for all of the Els existing in the universe is Elohim. it was the els who took the El ements and created the molar level universe that we see around us. in other words, everything we see around us is the creative product of an El. the name El is an ancient one. and it as a syllable has found its way into many of our languages. for instance elder, intellect, elate, elect, electric, elite, and in the communication devices such as telephones and television. the syllable el is also found in the prophets of the old testament Ezekiel, Elisha, and Samuel. as well as the names of the 7 arch angels. Ariel, Gabriel, Michael, Uriel, Raphael, Zadkiel, and Jerimel. the word angel itelf means messenger of god. there is an el or nature spirit ruling over each and every planet in the universe. an El is refered to as Lord God and the Supreme Creator as God Most High. The Elohim know all their is to know about every reality that exists in the ULF. they never tire of telling or spelling out reality to each other this continuous cosmic conversation is called the song of the Els. or the song of spheres.this collective son of the Els gives us the name uni-verse or one song. this is getting a bit long but i will write this down in more detail and post it as another one of my tangents that i will be happy to send you. i will also explain about the final level being that of the Al. or mega level. there is a reason that the israeli arilin is called El-Al. hope this clears some things up but as i said this is just the readers digest version. try not to get caught up on labels or semantics for we are all just aying the same thing just in other words and perceptions. may the creator of all that is guide you on your quest for reperfection. love jonesy

meatbox666	30 Jul 2002
In Assyria/Babylonian mythology wasn't Chemosh the Sun? Who remembers and uh, what do you guys think? If you have any insight please share or if another scripture is on your mind please share.

zorya	30 Jul 2002
[quote]Originally posted by meatbox666 [b]The name Adonay Melech seems awfully familiar to Molech, the god of the Ammorties in the bible. Has anyone noticed? adonai melech adonai means lord. melech means king or ruler. as this it is transliterated from the hebrew, which in it's original form contains no vowels , it can also be spelled, adonay. and melach can be melech or even molech.

The The End of the world and your insight interpreting the scriptures. thread was originally posted on 11 Jul 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.