New Age, what the heck does it mean?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 20 Aug 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Red Emma	20 Aug 2002
I've been a Pagan for only a few years. Before that decision changed my life, I had the Society's scorn of "New Agey" thoughts, ideas, merchandise. However in the book store near us, all the Pagan literature was selved under "New Age." I'd kind of sneak over to the section looking over my shoulder hoping no one I knew would see me. I've finally learned not to care. However, even in Pagan Circles I find negative, judgemental comments about New Agers; crystal worshipers, etc. Which I don't understand. I finally decided that I really don't know what the term means. Could anyone enlighten me? Goddess Bless, Red Emma

Umbrae	20 Aug 2002
Ya ever notice…New Age means we take something old and write a book about it… Like crystals and chakra’s are new? Meditation, Scrying, tarot…Give me a break. New Agers thinks they invented the word ‘empowerment’. I wonder why reading entrails never caught on with them? Halloween of ’99, there was a ‘coven’ of wiccan wanna-be’s down the road. They were dancing around a fire in purple nylon robes. One woman poured vodka on the fire to make it ‘flare up’. It did. Two women died from the burns. New Age has nothing to do with intelligence or wisdom. It has to do with followers. (Just an opinion, mind you).

Kaleidoscope Eyes	20 Aug 2002
I used to run with a bunch of folks one could only call "New Agers," and that's back in the late 80's, when it was *all the rage*. Loopy... that's the best word I can find to describe it. And a lot of those folks were pretty hypocritical too, when it came to actually living up to all the peace, love and light they were wont to mouth. Anyway, mine was a bitter experience, and a long story. I backed waaaaay off of the whole so-called "New Age" scene. But it was a long time ago. I have grown spiritually.. and I sincerely hope those folks have as well. May all be blessed.

zorya	20 Aug 2002
i don't dislike new agers. they are thinking outside of the box, even if it is a little less outside then most of us here are lol. without them, we would have less metaphysical shops available! by popularizing tarot, crystals, meditation and scrying, they make us appear more acceptable to others. i believe most new age folk, are looking for answers, and to grow and evolve, much as we all are. i believe most of them have the intent of becoming beings of light. perhaps they are not digging very deeply. perhaps they are just following a crowd, but isn't that better than not trying at all?

jade	20 Aug 2002
i am a new age spiritual wiccan pagan mother soon to be crone! to me - new age represents the coming of a new age of more open accepting belief systems. it's a term that 'mainstreamers' find more socially acceptable than pagan or wiccan. it kinda saddens me to hear these thoughts on a belief system that is similar to all of ours...................and esp. since we all dislike it sooo much when others say the same stuff about pagans and wiccans. :( it matters not what they believe, it matters more that we follow the light and walk our talk. in light, jade :D

Mermaid	21 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by jade it kinda saddens me to hear these thoughts on a belief system that is similar to all of ours...................and esp. since we all dislike it sooo much when others say the same stuff about pagans and wiccans. :( I agree with Jade: intolerance is a nasty thing - whoever's doing it. PS - Red Emma, I bet this thread has just confused you more! :D Here's a link on the New Age Movement that you might find intereting: http://www.religioustolerance.org/newage.htm And a rather more sceptical article from a pagan website: http://www.pfpc.ca/info/paganism/newage.html Happy browsing!

Minderwiz	21 Aug 2002
If I can take your question literally the term ‘New Age’ relates to the beginning of the Age of Aquarius. The Age of Aquarius (and the Ages of Pisces, Aries, etc) are a way of describing the phenomenon of the precession of the Equinoxes. Traditional Astrology locates the vernal Equinox at the first degree of Aries. This was because around 4000 years ago the Vernal equinox did indeed occur against the zodiac background of the first degree of Aries. However Earth's rotation around the Sun is not precisely one year and the vernal equinox does not therefore occur at exactly the same point in terms of zodiac longitude. Over time this difference grows. Approximately every 2200 years the Vernal equinox changes sign moving into the preceding sign, over 26000 years it completes an entire cycle of the Zodiac. So around 250 BCE the vernal equinox shifted into Pisces and some 2200 years after that date will shift into Aquarius. Thus the Age of Aquarius is the time in which the Vernal equinox will occur in Aquarius and arguably bring an Aquarian slant to life. Just as the Pisces fish was a symbol of early Christianity and the Aries Ram a symbol of Egyptian religion (and in earlier times the cult of the Bull was drawn from a Taurean equinox), so the symbolism of the Water bearer will represent this 'New Age'. The individualism, interest in the unusual and off beat, the intrest in societyand human brotherhood are all Aquarian traits. Incidentally some of the activities identified as 'New Age' such as the use of drugs are far more Piscean (ruled by Neptune) than Aquarian. Peace and Love is also a Piscean rather than Aquarian concept (Pisces is a Water sign and more emotional than the airy Aquarius). The problem with it is that no one actually knows when it will begin exactly. Some argue that it has already started, others that it will be another 100 years or so. This is partly because there is no exact point where the actual constellation of Pisces ends and that of Aquarius begins (moving backwards through the Zodiac). The constellations are not all the same size and clearly are separated by space which is difficult to allocate to one or the other. Western astrologers have sidestepped the problem of precession by using the tropical zodiac. That is the first degree of Aries is defined as the Vernal equinox, rather than an actual zodiac backdrop. Vedic astrologers tend to use the 'sidereal' zodiac - or the actual background of the stars themselves. There is somewhere around 24 degrees difference between the two, so only if you were born in the last 6 degrees of a western sign do you have the same sun sign in both systems. For most people being born, say Libra under the Tropical system will mean that they are Virgo under the Sidereal system. Hope this helps Minderwiz

Frequency	21 Aug 2002
Well... I have alot of pride in being Satanist (finaly a philosophy I agree with and can learn from) so when I looked for The Satanic Bible at bookstores I wasn't really discouraged. On the other hand despite my pride, I hate explaining it to people who haven't read the damned book (pun) which is more or less the majority of the population... so I don't flaunt it around. That's the balance I need with it. I'm bound to get ugly looks here and there when I'm scoping out the New Age section looking at Whitley Strieber books or whatever and it doesn't bother me at all. Here's a nice story I heard at a different bulletin board: This guy bought a new house in the suburbs. In germany, you have to go to the mayor's-office to announce that you moved and you have to sign a paper, in which they ask you several questions: name, address, date of birth, your job AND your religion. As an honest man he wrote SATANIST. A week later he opened his mailbox and found an envelope, on which was written: "From your neighborhood". They asked that he sell the house and move away. There is an elementary school nearby and the parents are affraid. He could have a "bad influence" on their kids, or even "sexualy assault them, as all satanists are known to do". They wrote, that if one cat was missing, they'd bring him to the judge and beat the hell out of him. This insane pamphlet was singed by 8 neighbors.[/i] This was a few months ago. Some people replied saying stupid crap about trying to scare his neighbors more, but most people suggested that he be a normal person that mowed his lawn and washed his car outside etc... He had a BBQ and invited his neighbors over. Weren't they surprised! A 'Devil Worshipper' who invites his neighbors over for a BBQ... I doubt they were expecting him to be so friendly. You have to understand that the 'New Age' trend wasn't out in the open until recently so to many people it feels new. When you go to Chapters (large Canadian bookstore chain) you see the section labeled 'New Age' and you know what's going to be in there; the weird stuff. That's just the present mentality of people. New things are different and scary.

Jenny-Li	21 Aug 2002
All of a sudden I feel very uneducated...! ;) I thought New Age was kind of a cover name for everything that involves spirituality outside the traditional world religions (OK, I realise some of these religions are more traditional in the sense of having a longer history than any of the "usual" ones put together... But I think you know what I mean...!). And that this name connects to the Age of Aquarius in the way Jade said: "the coming of a new age of more open accepting belief systems" (i.e. the whole range of beliefs that are represented here. So, all you guys who are pagans - what is the difference between New Age and paganism...? Please don't think the question is stupid, it is honest...! ;) Thanks! Jenny *curious* :) Edited to add: PS: Frequency - I don't know if it's just me, but part from not being quite so aggressive towards people I know, even for me the word Satanism has a scary ring to it, just because I don't really know what it is. And rumors is basically all the information people have, so no wonder... Anyway, I would think it very interesting if you started a thread on satanism, it would if nothing else get me out of my "ignorance"...! ;)

Minderwiz	21 Aug 2002
Again at a simple level, the word 'pagan' derives from the old word for country dweller and therefore paganism is the religion of the countryside. There is no simple or single pagan religion - but a myriad of similar religions that stress the essential unity of mankind and nature. Gods and goddesses are natural in the sense of being part of the natural order of things, rather than being outside nature like the Christian God. Paganism as such is a far older group of religions than Chrisianity or Judaism and in that sense is nothing to do with 'New Age' indeed symbols such as the Bull (Taurus) or the Ram (Aries) are very much associated with past astrological ages. Christians used the term 'pagan' as a deregotary term and of course did much to supress and attempt to destroy the 'old' religions. Witches, a term derived from 'Wise Woman' were persecuted and much of their knowledge and lore lost or literally perverted. The re-awakening of interest in old religions during the 19th and 20th Centuries and the end of persecution of 'Witchcraft' (In the UK with the Fraudulent Mediums Act of 1951 led to the development of religions such as Wicca (created in the 1950s). We should therefore be very careful not to treat paganism as a new fad or 'New Age' it is far far older - there are also strong arguments for the claim that the Jesus myth was a reworking of many of the pagan beliefs - but that's another thread entirely! Minderwiz

catlin	21 Aug 2002
I also second Minderwitz post. I see a difference in Paganism and other New Age trends. I found out that New Age also suffers some trends (at least here in Germany), eg. when talking to angels was en vogue, you were practically drowned in books about angels, at the moment, talking to fairies is very high in demand and stuff about aloe vera. There are a lot of "Eso-hoppers" around who follow today this way, tomorrow another way. I think these are a kind of byproduct of New Age. I cannot help but when I think about New Age I get the idea of hippies and flower power LOL so I involuntarly connect the term "New Age" to the late 60ths until now.

Laurel	21 Aug 2002
All religions and philosophies have a Jungian "shadow", just like people. The "shadow" of Christianity, in my opinion, relates to all the fear and prejudice that has been done in the name of The One True Way. The "shadow" of New Age, in my opinion, relates to financial exploitation of spiritually hungry, acceptance-seeking practioners. The "shadow" of Wicca, in my opinion, relates to a fear of darkness. The "shadow" of Satanism, in my opinion, relates to a sacrifice of altruism in the quest for individualism. I could go on. The long and short of it is that all religions and philosophies can be mis-applied and critics are always quick to capitalize on the shadow and ignore the more balanced and healing aspects of any faith they dislike or fear. Laurel

catlin	22 Aug 2002
Hi Laurel, I cannot second you on your comment about the "fear of darkness" in Wicca. I don't know whoever brought up the idea of "black" and "white" Magick as I consider Magick neutral and even me as a Celtic Wicca have to admit that neverending "Love and Light talk" drives me nuts. There are matters which you cannot only react with love and light and Wiccas normally do not tend to turn meekly the other cheek.

Kiama	22 Aug 2002
To be honest, I use to ave the same scorn for New Agers too, but afte visiting Glastonbury a couple of times, it became apparant to me that, whilst the paths of Paganism and the New Age are different, it is often difficult to seperate them. And would we even want to? I wouldn't. I guess I would define a New-Ager as a spiritually minded person, who is searching, as we all are, but searching eclectically rather than, like some Pagans do, in a specific relgion/tradition, eg- Northern Heathnism, Celtic Wicca, etc... Which is where people get the stereotype of hippies talking to Angels whilst practicing tantric yoga, and dealing out a Tarot spread, with hundreds of crystals hanging around their neck and from their ears. And one thing I must say about New-Agers, is that I LOOOOVE their clothes! :D Kiama

Diana	22 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae Ya ever notice…New Age means we take something old and write a book about it… Like crystals and chakra’s are new? Meditation, Scrying, tarot…Give me a break. ....... (Just an opinion, mind you). Umbrae: I don't think many New Agers pretend that this stuff is new. And we can give them thanks for having brought back this stuff out from where it was hidden for so long, and for having brought it in the open. For having travelled to distant lands and shared the traditions they discovered with the Western world. It is thanks to the New Age movement that many things are now accepted as normal. No-one will think anyone is crazy because they meditate. I bet you only fifty or sixty years ago, people in our cultures would have received the label "crazy" if they did. I love New Agers. Even the freaky wierdo ones who make me laugh with their naiveness. It's like the hippies. We can laugh now at their flower-power and make love not war. But they changed our world for the better. So have New Agers. *Diana thinks she is perhaps a New Ager herself.*

Sulis	22 Aug 2002
Quote: [i] Originally posted by Diana [/i i love new agers. even the freaky wierdo ones who make me laugh with their naiveness. it's like the hippies. we can laugh now at their flower-power and make love not war. but they changed our world for the better. so have new agers. *diana thinks she is perhaps a new ager herself.* [/b] Well said Diana, I couldn`t agree more. Speaking as someone who has had dreadlocks for the past 10 years and also thinks that I am probably a New Ager as well. Crystalmynx xx

fairyhedgehog	22 Aug 2002
Oh Crumbs! I thought 'New Age' was just a bookshop label for all the things I'm interested in, and some that I'm not. Like the 'Mind, Body, Spirit' section at Waterstones. I'm not sure that 'New Age' is a label people claim for themselves, we are just interested in a load of things (including Tarot cards, shamanism and paganism) that get grouped under that label. And as a secular humanist, I don't share a lot of the beliefs of many others who are labelled 'New Age' but I share many of the same interests. I hope I'm not going to be dismissed as 'kooky' and I certainly don't dismiss the people whose beliefs I don't share. Btw, I found Laurel's ideas about the shadow very interesting, and thank you mermaid for the link to religioustolerance.org. Love and light to all, FH

Minderwiz	22 Aug 2002
I think the general use of the term 'New Age' was probably most promoted by the 70s musical Hair - 'Dawning of the Age of Aquairus', etc. As faeryhedgehog says it is now used more as a collective term used by bookshops, etc rather than anything very specific and I would not describe myself as being into 'New Age' things, even though I am into Astrology and Tarot (the first of which can be traced back to the earliest civilisations and the second of which can be traced back over 600 years). I do happen to believe that the shift of the sidereal Spring equinox into Aquarius is not only Astrologically significant but will show up in changes in society and in human behaviour and belief systems. However those changes will become mainstream in religious, spiritual and social terms and not remain at the fringes. Minderwiz

Mermaid	22 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by fairyhedgehog thank you mermaid for the link to religioustolerance.org. You're welcome :) It's a great website, isn't it?

DarkElectric	22 Aug 2002
It seems to be true, at least in my experience, that many Wiccans I know refuse to acknowlege the dark side of the craft. There definitely is one. I have heard that all magick is grey, just varying shades. I believe this to be true as well. My priestess asked me about this very thing when I first asked her for instruction. She said 'You pick up a coin, you pick up both sides". She was right. She also was into personal ethics, and one taking total responsibility for one's behaviour. There are some Wiccans I know who are very uncomfortable with what they consider "Dark" concepts. I have a problem with what I consider to be "Evil" concepts, and there is a difference. Dark isn't evil. It is merely the opposite of light. If the sun shone all the time, everything would die. And the one whom the Christians call 'Lucifer"...Doesn't the literal translation mean 'Light Bringer"? So was Lucifer the Devil? And if he enlightened, did not the devil bring enlightenment? So is he still a bad guy for doing this? Or isn't he the devil after all? and if he's not, who is...on, and on it goes. I know a lot of people who call themselves "New Agers" because they can indulge their interests in metaphysical things, and still go to church! They are more comfortable with the term "New Ager" than they would be with 'Witch", and the pejoritive baggage it carries. Also, witch probobly doesn't represent their beliefs accurately, and new age does. I feel bad for the Satanists, and Left Hand Path folks. They are the most misunderstood bunch around.

divinerguy	22 Aug 2002
Its a shame that Christianity has chosen, for the most part, to exclude any path which does not completely submit to its dogma. Children are taught that certain people, symbols and words are inherently evil. Guilt, confession and submission as a method of salvation strikes me as being a little on the sadistic side. New Age ideas allow us to feel good about ourselves, and to cast a little bit of joy and light intro the lives of others.

Liliana	23 Aug 2002
I wonder what the satanist barbqued for his neighbors? Babies? Goats? lol (sorry that IS a joke, I have read the Satanic Bible in High School, all in one day in fact, because my friend was into it and while not my philosophy it is not all that evil, its just called that because its based on the "sin" satan committed, too much self pride) Anyway I agree about many Wiccans and pretty much all Christians being afraid of the dark (NOT EVIL) side. Im a Christian myself, but lately Ive been finding myself thinking that Satan/Lucifer or whoever the heck he is is just an angel with an unpopular job to do. No one likes to be accused of their wrongdoings, and he does it day and night, so we say hes evil. Hes dark, but is he really evil? I dont know, and I have been thinking of honoring him somewhat lately, on the level I honor other archangels. But I dont know if I could see calling him inot my circle. Also I do have some honor for Lilith as a dark goddess :THP

Minderwiz	23 Aug 2002
I agree with you about the dark side not being the same as evil. I tend to associate the 'dark' in this sense with the unconscious, with that which is part of us but is not rational or consciously expressed, which is hidden from us - in so far as we experience it the experiences come through feelings that we cannot explain, dreams, I suppose as we are often afraid of that which we cannot explain or understand such things become fearful rather than something to recognise as part of our being and that we are not whole without the 'dark'. Perhaps if 'New Age' enables us not to be afraid of the 'dark' then it has achieved something significant in human development. Minderwiz

Kiama	23 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Liliana Anyway I agree about many Wiccans and pretty much all Christians being afraid of the dark (NOT EVIL) side. Im a Christian myself, but lately Ive been finding myself thinking that Satan/Lucifer or whoever the heck he is is just an angel with an unpopular job to do. No one likes to be accused of their wrongdoings, and he does it day and night, so we say hes evil. Hes dark, but is he really evil? I dont know, and I have been thinking of honoring him somewhat lately, on the level I honor other archangels. But I dont know if I could see calling him inot my circle. Also I do have some honor for Lilith as a dark goddess :THP I think of Lucifer in much the same way a you Lili... I see him a bit as I see Loki, or Gwnn Ap Nuth... And anyway, Lucifer/Satan can't be totaly evil, cuz God created him, and there must therefore be a little of God inside him too. (Cripes, look what Christian religious philosophy lessons have done to me!!! ;)) Kiama PS- A good quotation always use when defending the Dark side of things to 'fluffy bunnies', is that there is no shadow without there first being the candle light... And we cannot properl appreciate the light of the Summer Sun if we first do not go through the endless dark night of Winter.... Wow, here we have the Moon card creeping into the discussion!

The New Age, what the heck does it mean? thread was originally posted on 20 Aug 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.