faith and security

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 17 Oct 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

cricket	17 Oct 2002
I've been noticing lately that many of those who accept religions other than their own are actually more secure in their own personal beliefs. Those who have little true faith always seem to try to control others by belittling their religions or practices, and have no way to back up what they say other than "it just IS that way". There's a sad sort of desperation in their acts. Many of the people here are secure in their faith, and it shows. We tend to be more open to alternate opinions or options. We don't force our beliefs on others (unless it's called for). We even go so far as to accept the criticism of others with a grain of salt. Even the comments clearly made to hurt. Any thoughts?

RedWood	17 Oct 2002
Like you said..we are secure...People can say what they want..but in our hearts and body..we know who we are..and who represents faith to us...We are harmonized...or getting there..We have faith and things make sense...we see things in a new light..we have more compassion towards people who don't have this security..We know that we were in the same boat once and we made our way...Everyone has to make their own way...

truthsayer	17 Oct 2002
a couple of sundays back, i decided to indulge my father's wish that i attend the homecoming service and luncheon. learning how to accept my father's southern baptist faith has been a thorn in my side for years. but this service i had an epiphany and i couldn't believe i never realized this before. the service wasn't about me and convincing me to believe like them. i had no reason to feel offended. it wasn't a personal attack to my beliefs and lifestyle. the service was the communal sharing of a philosophy for a certain way of belief and lifestyle. even tho i couldn't speak freely about my beliefs didn't mean anything was wrong w/ me. it didn't mean anything was wrong w/ them either. our differing beliefs just are. we are all joined in this big fish bowel called earth. we are interdependent on each other whether we realize it or not. looking back on my anger about religion, i feel a tad narcicistic b/c i let others talking about their belief system feel personal. i always felt personally attacked but i wasn't. what i was told wasn't any different for other ppl they spread the word of their beliefs. so if it's not personal and it's not about me then i can go to a church service occasionally and not feel threatened or insecure b/c i have faith in my spiritual beliefs. i'm feeling a new level of acceptance of the religious beliefs of others. i've never felt like i fit in a group structure in many things. if i wanted to fit in a group it usually meant i had to change myself to fit their standards. my individuality has always been very imp to me. if someone tried to get me to go to church w/ them, i always interpreted this as a sign this person was going to reject me once s/he knew the truth about my spiritual beliefs. it didn't occur to me that my personal spiritual belifs are as private as i want to make them and nobody's business if i don't want to share. it doesn't mean i'm ashamed of what i believe but being open to choosing an option other than feeling defensive is a change for the better for me. does this make any sense at all?

MystiqueMoonlight	17 Oct 2002
I think Rachel Pollack hit the nail on the head when she said to me in my interview with her that there is a sense of tribal community within the Tarot world. IMO that goes without saying rgardless of any religious convictions. :)

wavebreaker	18 Oct 2002
I think that if you have a true faith, it is imbedded inside you, it is part of your daily life and you're actually living it instead of just talking about it or just going through the rituals. And I think that's because it is something you've chosen yourself, you've thought about it and it is really you. In contrast, people with little true faith are often people who are only following a certain religion because they were raised in that religion or because everybody else in their environment follows it. They never put any thought in it, they just follow all the rules and rituals, and that's it. Since they haven't really embedded this faith in their lives and probably couldn't explain to you why this is what they believe in, they will tend to be defensive about it and therefore find it difficult to accept other faiths. Just my thoughts, from my experience of growing up in a catholic family: my parents never asked why I didn't want to go to church anymore, they probably didn't want to hear anything against the church they had been following all their lives. Because they never chose this religion, it was imposed upon them (and me), so it wasn't really theirs to begin with.

Sinta	18 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by MystiqueMoonlight I think Rachel Pollack hit the nail on the head when she said to me in my interview with her that there is a sense of tribal community within the Tarot world. Indeed, that is what I feel as well.. we have a common ground on the tarot and its a common belief that the cards help us understand ourselves and our lives. Its already a bridge over religions, thus we listen to tarot readers around us, though they might criticize your thoughts, y'know they have a different belief and accept it, just as you have your own belief and accept it as well. This common ground seems to be able to reach out to those who listen to other beliefs.. they understand it and then become steadfast in their own. Whereas those who criticize and proclaim it to be the wrong way, they are insecure thus need to shout it out to make them feel better as the keep trying to reach out to the sands of faith that slips between their loose fingers. I should know.. I guess i was one of them once. I believed so much that my belief was the right and the others were wrong. It was drilled into me... yet even then i was insecure.. so unsure... but as i began to listen, understand and accept and even take some of the philosophy of other religions to my own, i have become more steadfast and grounded into my belief.. my way of life... and created my religion into my own. ~Sea~

Laurel	18 Oct 2002
I think that tarot not only creates a Tribal Community, but the kinds of people it draws in are as a general rule more accepting and tolerant. I've belonged to other non-tarot "tribal communities" and all did *not* go well. LOL. Even Aeclectic has its bad days and sorrows, but I have never ever found a community (online or real life) where as a general rule, most of the people are accepting and positive to one another most of the time. My gut hunch is that Aeclectic was founded around a few truly phenomenal people, and that over time, more and more inspiring souls gathered around them until now we have this truly extraordinary dynamic spiral of co-teachers in the Art and Craft of tarot, who tend to co-teach one another a lot about Life and Living along the way as a side effect. :)

ChrisTheObscure	18 Oct 2002
I would agree that those who use/have an interest in Tarot are more tolerant and accepting, in part because the very nature of Tarot requires an open mnd and seeker's heart in order to be useful at all. As for my personal faith, I'm anything BUT secure in it :) I have no idea what's right - my christian upbringing, my newly found pagan beliefs, both or neither - but you know what gets me through? My faith in the Divine, whatever he/she/it may be - that based on the things I've been able to get through, and the beauty in the world around me and the people in it, the Divine must be infinitely good and pure in nature. And as such, I know that even if I'm off-base when it comes to what I think I know or what I believe, God won't hold it against me, because I'm seeking him sincerely and with all my heart, and an open spirit to receive what he wants to teach me, no matter where it comes from. Chris

Minderwiz	18 Oct 2002
One of the reasons I think people on these forums are tolerant is that they have gone on a voyage of self discovery - even if they haven't yet reached the end of the journey. Asking questions about your beliefs, doubting them, testing them and modifying them does lead in most cases to a recognition that you only have a small piece of the truth and that others might also be in the same position as yourself. If we don't have 'the answer' then we are less likely to try to force our beliefs on others and to try to suppress their beliefs. We also recognise that our bit of the truth is tested and is truly meaningful for us. Those who simply observe the rituals without looking at their symbolism and meaning may be literally religious but their faith is an unknowing one. They are also the ones most likely to insist that their way is the 'correct way' I see no reason in principal why Christian, Muslim, Pagan or Agnostic should not recognise that each possesses some aspect of the truth and that sharing our pieces enriches us all. Minderwiz

DarkElectric	18 Oct 2002
Maybe I come at it from a "Live and let Live" perspective. I don't ever want anyone telling me what to believe, so therefore, I wouldn't tell anyone else what to believe. I get so tired of people trying to push other people around, beliefwise, or otherwise.

Dark Inquisitor	18 Oct 2002
[quote]Originally posted by truthsayer this big fish bowel called earth. Excellent possible Freudian slip- typo truthsayer! I feel exactly the same way lately! Tarotphelia

Mystica	19 Oct 2002
Everyone has said it all so very well....we do have a special community of people here. I get so tired of the people who call themselves religious, born-again, or whatever title they use, and they are so narrow minded and so convinced that they are right. That their way is the only way...they come off so self-rightous (sp?) Each of us is at a different part of our journey. So much to be learned and shared. Chris mentioned being new to Pagan beliefs, I am just coming into this myself. As I learn more, I find things that were already deep in my heart, just not yet identified. I am still a newbie in this forum. I certainly don't mean to jump in and just include myself in your community as though I have been here all along. It takes time to truly get to know one another, and I hope to make some friends here...I want to tell all of you that I've never been so warmly welcomed anywhere, IRL or on the internet. Light, Love, & Laughter, Vianne :TSTRE

MystiqueMoonlight	20 Oct 2002
Vianne, Feel free :D Jump in when ever you want..... ;) and welcome to our little home on the web....

catlin	21 Oct 2002
I also tend to "Live and let live" but the funny thing is - although I am completely well in my Celtic Elder Wicca belief - there are still lots of folk who think they have to try to "save" me, eg. they want to convince me how wonderful it is to be gnostic, Jehova's Witness, Falun Gong, etc. They sometimes don't seem to be willing to understand that practicing the Caft and honoring the Great Goddess is also a belief. I am always very happy to find like-minded souls here at a.net.

lemonsong	21 Oct 2002
I'm a newbie jumping in here. This is something I've thought for a long time. The more secure you are in your religion, personality, convictions and all other things in life, the less likely you are to criticize others. I don't have any formal name for my religion, I just know what I believe and how that feels to me. My mother thinks that this is awful. She's told me I've been posessed by the devil, that what I"m doing is satanic, and that these evil things have always been in me. (DUH, ya think? I was born this was but I accept it and you do not) I hope this comes across the way I mean it to. I'm not great at conveying myself in written words. I always come off sounding like a big jerk. Blessings, Lemon :D

fairyhedgehog	21 Oct 2002
Hi Lemonsong and welcome to our discussions :) I feel really sad that your mum says things like that to you. I'm sure she has her reasons and her own fears, but you deserve better than to be told that you are possessed by the devil. I don't know if you've had time to look around the forums and see that other folks here also have trouble with parents and other family who think they are evil or demonic, either because of their religion or their involvement in tarot. Perhaps it might help to see that you are not alone. You seem very secure in yourself and your beliefs, but I know how hard I would find it if my mum came at me with stuff like that. Anyway, very pleased to meet you :)

The faith and security thread was originally posted on 17 Oct 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.