My unnamed belief...

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 13 Oct 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Sinta	13 Oct 2002
I was just wondering what others thoughts would be if i described my belief, or so called religion. I hardly ever talk about it, for fear i may go against the belief of my family. I was taught to be a christian..or more specific pentecostal christian. As a child i would look forward to sunday school and church service. But as I grew older, more cynical, i do not feel that God is in church anymore. I cannot feel him anywhere... I guess because the church is run by people and people are flawed. What they might be teaching could be flawed by their perspective. No, I do not feel God in church anymore. I come from a very strange background. My immediate family is Christian (though I'm no really sure about my father. And in my bloodline there was an ancestor who started a pagan religion (animal worship) in Asia. I've found God somewhere else. In the sea. I am drawn to it and it seems to call to me. I lived in Asia until 4 years ago where i moved to Switzerland. Asia, more or less the philippines, a group of islands. The sea was always there and it was a sanctuary. My grandfather owned a resort so i was allowed to visit every weekend. I found peace there and I found God there I guess. When I look back, my mother as well as my grandmother (who are so-called christians) have described the pull of the ocean on them. It was their sanctuary as well as mine. I was taught no matter how great i become I am humbled by the greatness and depth of the sea and it's creatures. Even know stuck in the middle of Europe where I see no ocean, i feel it's pull to me. The Pacific especially. I do not know what it means really. My basis in Religion is Christianity and I do believe it. But when asked what is my belief, I answer with "sea". It is the epitome of all my beliefs. Now question to you, after this little belief sharing, what do you think of it? Is it strange? I am the only one in my family who feels this pull to actual stand out and say, yes that's my belief. A belief that really has no practices, or ground, except that of God and his teachings which somehow in my eye is engulfed in the waters. Does this belief seem familar to you in anyway? Do you feel this pull? I'd really like some feedback on this.

fairyhedgehog	13 Oct 2002
Hi Sinta, What a beautiful post. I'm not sure I feel quite like that about the sea, although I feel its power and attraction. Maybe I feel a bit like that about hills. I am always drawn to hills and I'm happier if I live some place where there are hills. My sister loves the sea, though, and is happiest if she can be by the sea. It seems like a kind of pagan thing to me - drawing spiritual sustenance from the natural world. (I wouldn't say that to my sister - she is a Christian and would freak out :) ) I wonder what it must be like for you, living so far from the sea that calls to you.

Sinta	13 Oct 2002
Hi Fairyhedgehog ;) (lol cute name) It seems your sister and I might have perhaps a similar situation... I was wondering maybe it could be something pagan... though the only pagan connection i have is the ancestor who practiced pagan worship but in the so called dark arts. How I feel being far away? Honest? Terrible. I tried walking around the lakes, but they seem different. They could be a puddle for all that they're worth ;) Hope i dont offend anyone who loves lakes. My boyfriend tried bringing me to the Blackpool and Skegness in England to make me feel better... I guess I felt better when I was there... but it didn't feel the same. Eitherways, thanks for sharing your thoughts. ^_^ You've just made me smile and I feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. Not many people understand and I'm glad some do.

wavebreaker	13 Oct 2002
Yes, I understand, I'm intrigued by the sea and all the creatures in it myself... My belief is that the god/goddess is in every living thing, like some sort of energy. Which is why I feel drawn to nature, and more specifically the sea. It's where I feel the presence of the god/goddess most clearly. Especially since under water everything is quiet and you can enjoy the underwater world and all its wonders without being distracted by all sorts of (modern life) sounds... Cousteau put his finger on it, when he said "The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever" (which is why it's my favourite signature... ;) ).

Scorpion	13 Oct 2002
Hi, Sinta! I grew up by the sea and can understand some of what you feel. I had very happy times just sitting there, listening and watching. We lived in a small town but there were several miles between places which meant there was plenty of tranquility if you walked far enough. I also understand what you mean about people's agendas taking God out of the churches to a large extent, although there are many genuine people there. I think the sea is appealing because it doesn't have demands or whims - it simply is. And it generates the right atmosphere to relax and tune into the Universe. I now live about as far from the sea as it is possible to get in this country - slap bang in the middle! I do miss it at times, but am lucky that we have some very rugged wild countryside not too far out of the area which I find equally comforting. I can understand why Blackpool and Skegness didn't do much for you - they are amongst the biggest resorts in the country and wouldn't provide the same sort of atmosphere. We occasionally take my three stepsons to Bridlington - another reasonably large resort - and it definitely doesn't do much for me. In fact, it's torture because I'm so close to what I'm looking for but it's totally out of reach as I don't think in the circumstances it would go down well to say "I'm off for a very long walk and I don't want any of you to come with me". You might have found what you were looking for in a protected nature reserve or somewhere secluded far from town.

fairyhedgehog	13 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Sinta How I feel being far away? Honest? Terrible. I tried walking around the lakes, but they seem different. That's hard, Sinta. I agree that lakes are totally different. There is something about the power and movement of the sea that is different from anything else. I grew up in Brighton which is a seaside town in England. It isn't a pretty seaside - mostly pebbles and shingle, steeply sloping, and hardly any shore when the tide is in. But there are the waves, and the salt smell, and the seagulls, and the tides. Nothing else on earth is quite like it. I was once knocked over by a wave and felt as if I couldn't find the surface for a few moments. Such strength in those waves! I don't remember being badly frightened though. Sometimes I dream of being washed over by a wave but in my dreams I can breathe under water. Tarotlady, you seem to spend a lot of your time under water :) Somehow I imagine that as being claustrophobic with all the diving equipment and stuff, but I have never tried it. Maybe I'm afraid of trying it and getting hooked :) Sinta, is there any chance that you will be able to move to somewhere a bit nearer the sea? My sister has finally managed to do this, after years of living in London, and it has made a big difference to her. Switzerland must be even worse than London for a sea-worshipper.

Sinta	13 Oct 2002
tarotlady : What a wonderful quote! I really have to remember that one. Maybe that is why.. it's a sanctuary and is untouched by modern day life (well, except ports, shipping and stuff). In all it's greatness and depth it is something we may aspire to, and cannot reach.. and thus perhaps humbled. ^_^ LouiQ: "I think the sea is appealing because it doesn't have demands or whims - it simply is." - I really like how you said it. It's as if you understand it perfectly and just brought me to the realization of it. It demands nothing, it seeks nothing of you... but perhaps just to watch it and know it's there. A lovely concept, especially in my life, everything seems to demand attention. Work, people, studies, blahblah... With the sea, when I sit before it i feel loved and i had to do nothing to attain that feeling.. ....hrm.. feeling in a very philosophical mood after having said that. fairyhedgehog: I find the sea to be the source of many things. Power one of them :) It is great. I once took a trip back to asia for a few weeks... the minute i got out of the car, after driving for hours to get to the beach, i just ran into the water, clothes and all! Of course i got some wierd glances, but it felt wonderful! At the moment, no I have no chance to move yet. I have a contract with my firm which will last for another 1 1/2 year. After that I plan to move in with my bf in South Yorkshire :) He is practically the best substitute i have, but cannot replace everything. He promised though that he'd take me to the sea all the time, even if it is in England and try to have many holidays in Asia. Thank you for all the wonderful feedback! I feel so much better and i feel very welcomed in this board. I can talk about how I feel and not be criticized. It's wonderful to see that so many beliefs are connected simply through the cards, and acceptance is plenty here. To bring a subject like this on a Christian board, would get flames -_- sadly... wish everyone could understand. Again THANK YOU!! ^_^

Diana	13 Oct 2002
Sinta: The sea is a beautiful thing to worship. I think you have a wonderful religion. You remind me of a friend of mine who has never believed in God. But when she goes walking in the Swiss Alps, she feels that she is touching the divine, walking with the soul of the universe itself. And when she sits on top of the mountain after a long day's walk, and watches the sun setting golden and red on the distant snowy peaks, she knows she is in heaven. I think the sea can do that too.

Scorpion	13 Oct 2002
Sinta, Thought this might help if you're stranded away from the sea - it's from a totally different thread on the Portal deck but as soon as I saw it I felt it had the same instantly calming effect as the sea - it's as if the images physically pull something out of you and draw you in with it. It's the first deck to have that effect on me. Unfortunately it's a bit pricey (I believe one of the creators is an Aecletic member and they put a lot of love and care into each individual deck - I'm desperate to put the money together for it) but the on-screen version works perfectly well! You'll see that most of the images use water in some form: I particularly like the Hermit, but I can almost hear the waves in the Devil! http://users.stargate.net/~dajax/Portal-Two/thumbnail.html Sounds like you have the perfect boyfriend! I'm sure he'll find you some spectacular coasts to visit. I suggest you point him in the direction of Devon and Cornwall for the truly stunning stuff.

wavebreaker	13 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Sinta Maybe that is why.. it's a sanctuary and is untouched by modern day life (well, except ports, shipping and stuff). That's why I love it most while diving: less of the modern day influences... Unfortunately, even under water you can't escape modern life's "touch". I get really angry when I see rubbish on the sea floor (plastic bottles, cans...), and plastic bags floating by... :mad: The rubbish is often difficult to pick up without damaging surrounding corals or without hurting yourself, but I always pick up plastic bags if I can reach them. Turtles tend to think they are jellyfish and try to eat them, but they suffocate on them... :mad: Quote: Originally posted by fairyhedgehog Tarotlady, you seem to spend a lot of your time under water Somehow I imagine that as being claustrophobic with all the diving equipment and stuff, but I have never tried it. Maybe I'm afraid of trying it and getting hooked I don't spend as much time there as I would like to, since we don't have that many places for good diving in this country. Although a short dive in a dark, cold lake can be just as rewarding sometimes... I was a bit claustrophobic at first, but the sea's "spell" was too strong, so I got over it... ;) Getting hooked is the biggest risk, really... :D

RedWood	13 Oct 2002
Sinta..I understand...I feel that way about the mountains..I grew up in West Virginia..in or on the Applachian mountains..I miss them terribly..I go back once and awhile..but i crave to live in the mountains..Maybe not in that state..but the mountains..There is so much wonder and beauty to walk thru them...Hunting for berries or turtle shells...Seeing the wild flowers...even walking through the forest on a windy day and the trees sway..even the dead ones..Even with the worry of ticks...and once and awhile a mountain lion and bears..I still love it...The danger (not real danger) just the small stuff is part of the Magick! Maybe you could put up pictures of the Sea...Won't be the same..but being able to see it everyday ..even in a picture..can take you back...

Violet Gargoyle	13 Oct 2002
Just a thought to throw in. One of my friends considers herself a "misplaced mermaid". She doesnt claim actual bloodlines to the sea, just that she is terribly lonesome without it. (and we both grew up in the middle of Pennsylvania, no ocean anywhere imagine that childhood) and that when she dreams she can breathe underwater and feel that she is swimming fast enough to "fly". She wears a silver starfish for her pentacle, although I always thought a sand dollar would work just as well.....

Kazz	14 Oct 2002
Hi Sinta...You are definately not alone in your belief, as you can see by the replies here. I have lived alot of places in my life, the city , the country and I finally now live in a town surrounded by the ocean. I love it here, and I really feel more at peace with my life (not to mention that I met and married my husband here also). The other places i have lived, I always felt discontent in some way, the fact that i love the water and couldn't get to it alot would be most of the reason. In summer we go to the beach all the time (it's walking distance) and there is nothing like the feeling of the sea, it takes all your troubles away while you are there (but ...of course they come back when you leave..:D) So I feel very at peace and at home with the sea, and I would have to say that I too are drawn to it. As most people in here would know I like storms, so if you can imagine, there is nothing like watching a storm rolling in over the ocean!! Cheers Kazz :TQC

cricket	14 Oct 2002
I feel a little out of place here, not being connected to the sea at ALL (in fact, I can hardly stand it), but I understand where you all are coming from with this. I grew up in the middle of the US, in what was once called 'the great American desert'. If any of you have ever seen Dances With Wolves, the area looked like that, without the river and trees. The nearest neighbor lived over a mile away. There's not all that much out there. My first "hello" from the powers that be happened in an area like that. There were a few of us out there, 4 or 5, and we had been out on horseback working for a few days. A place like that there's just nobody around. Most of what you do is done by yourself. It gives you time to think, and notice things. It occurred to me, some time on that ride, that nature itself can and will talk to a person in a situation like that. Ever since then the open prairie has been my refuge. It's just a shame I'm stuck here, where there's nothing but trees, ponds, and houses. ;)

Sinta	14 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by RedWood Maybe you could put up pictures of the Sea...Won't be the same..but being able to see it everyday ..even in a picture..can take you back... I think I might just try that hun :) Thank you. I have a desk in my room which looks actually like a small shrine with incense burning and pictures of all my loved ones.. i read my tarot cards there.. maybe it would be a good idea if i have the picture of the sea there too? Quote: Originally posted by Violet Gargoyle ..she dreams she can breathe underwater and feel that she is swimming fast enough to "fly". I feel that way a lot of times when I feel it calling to me. An exertion as if i could fly beneath and over the waters... I feel embraced and pulled deeper into it. Like a raging passion wild and untamed ^_^ Quote: Originally posted by Kazz there is nothing like watching a storm rolling in over the ocean!!. That's the other thing! I love storms... Living in Asia we get monsoons and raging storms.. the wildness is so beautiful... I love a good storm.. I can smell the earth and the sea during one. I'd sit by the window and watch it reach out to the waters and land...... Storms or rainy days here in Europe are not the same.. I guess because it's cold here and the soil smells different... the storms are warm but wonderfully refreshing! Quote: Originally posted by cricket . Ever since then the open prairie has been my refuge. To each their own hun ^_^ I can understand that.. i guess i associate the sea with my childhood.. my dad always said i learned how to swim before i learned how to walk. Everyone has their own reason to what they feel drawn to. I mean even my eyes seem to associate with it. My eyes are very dark, almost black that the orb within the color cannot be seen, which people comment on a lot. But the whites of my eyes are distinctly light blue... it's strange. Of course they say, that i'm the child of the sea, so it makes sense ;)

Laurel	14 Oct 2002
Worshipping the sea makes complete sense to me. It is vast and deep and ineffable; I think many people have had profound spiritual experiences because of the sea. My own first sense of the divine came in Yellowstone park, in the forest and geyser basins. I love nature and even if my perspective on 'God' has changed a lot, my adoration for nature and the way I feel when I'm alone in the middle of it has not. Laurel

anjocoxo	15 Oct 2002
to me the sea is also very appealing, i live in portugal and we have an entire cost where we can be in touch with the ocean. one thing i love to do: when i'm bathing in the sea, i really love to look to the horizont, just water in front of me, a world of total peace and harmony... and besides, i also love the feeling of not having weight inside water, it is a fantastic feeling it looks like you're gravitating and literally floating... hum.... now i'm starting to feel desperate for a swim, too bad it's october and it's raining here, eh,eh,eh...

John	16 Oct 2002
What I understand from your post is that you like the sea. You feel happy when you are near or in the sea. This is all well and good and it is probably because you spent most of your life by the sea so it is most likely a matter of habit or comfort. It seems to me that this has nothing to do with religion or metaphysics. People like all sorts of things, sometimes very intensely, and it doesn't mean God is there. I like vanilla ice cream very much. I eat it whenever I can. Does this mean that God is in vanilla ice cream? Does this mean that every time I eat vanilla ice cream I am eating God?

Sinta	16 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Laurel Worshipping the sea makes complete sense to me. It is vast and deep and ineffable; Indeed, that it is to me. I seem humbled by it. I tend to be a very proud person (but I do have things to be proud of achievements, challenges won, blablabla) but I'm glad that there's a reminder there, that no matter how far I go... I cannot surpass it. Quote: Originally posted by anjocoxo ..when i'm bathing in the sea, i really love to look to the horizont, just water in front of me, a world of total peace and harmony... *sighs* Now I really wish i could take a break from work and everything and run home to asia for a quick dip. Its terribly beautiful and indeed that's what i would do. I'd spend the whole day by the beach and when it comes to darkness, either in the water or on the sand, i love to watch the sun kiss the waves. Quote: Originally posted by John It seems to me that this has nothing to do with religion or metaphysics. People like all sorts of things, sometimes very intensely, and it doesn't mean God is there. Well to each their own opinion I guess.. My feelings about the sea are not like how i would feel with vanilla ice cream. I mean I like vanilla ice cream.... but it's not the same feeling. What I feel by the sea is spiritual. If God isn't by the sea.. where is he? I know he is everywhere, but where, where there is peace of mind and sanctuary I can find him just for me? Surely not at church -_- I do not feel comfortable there... I believe to seek God on my own and I guess I feel him at most there by the sea, during the sun's daylight caress or the moon's shadowlight kisses. Indeed for me... God is by the sea. The sea to me seems to embody his presence. Kind and gentle like the soft lazy waves, passionate and great like the storms on the water.

wavebreaker	16 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by John It seems to me that this has nothing to do with religion or metaphysics. People like all sorts of things, sometimes very intensely, and it doesn't mean God is there. I like vanilla ice cream very much. I eat it whenever I can. Does this mean that God is in vanilla ice cream? Does this mean that every time I eat vanilla ice cream I am eating God? Some people, including myself, believe that the god/goddess is everywhere. So that includes the sea and vanilla ice cream. Some people feel this presence more clearly in the sea, others when eating vanilla ice cream. It doesn't matter where you feel it most intensely, it's the joy that you get from that experience that counts. You might want to try it sometime. I know it can be scary to follow your emotions if you're used to rely on reasoning, but trust me, it can be very rewarding... ;)

The My unnamed belief... thread was originally posted on 13 Oct 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.