Should I keep quiet or not?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 12 Nov 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Sulis	12 Nov 2002
Hi everyone, I started training as a reflexologist this weekend, I`ve been looking forward to it for ages. It`s a year long course and there are 10 people in my group, the other people all seem to be very nice. Here`s the problem : I`m a witch, I don`t broadcast the fact, I feel as if my spirituality is my business, but I don`t hide it either. 2 of the people on the course are Jehova`s (Sp?) witnesses and they are very vocal about their beliefs. This left me feeling a little aprehensive about mentioning mine. What should I do? Do I keep quiet even though this makes me feel vaguely resentful that they`re blahing on about their religeon or do I bite the bullet and tell them of my beliefs even though this may alienate me and cause them to not want to work with me. I did tentatively mention my involvement with tarot to one of them (the less vocal of the 2) and she told me that `good` people should never go near such things and she is worried about my soul(lol). I can`t see me being able to keep my mouth shut for a year. Love and light Crystalmynx xx

allibee	12 Nov 2002
just wondering why you should have to keep your mouth shut at all? Let me first and foremost say I am not a witch, but a spiritualist, and as such believe that we are all entitled to 'be ourselves' to the best of our abilities. It takes all sorts to make a world - including Jehova's witnesses who take a very narrow view of everthing, which is their perogative - atheists, christians, muslims, buddists, the list is endless. Don't you dare hide in the closet, lol, because they certainly haven't. It seems clear that they have the problem, not you, and I'm quite certain that any course leader worth their salt will make sure its the ones causing the trouble that get dealt with, not any victim of their self centred views. I also bet you any money you like, that the rest of your classmates are totally open to anything, after all, this is presumably an adult course, not one for kids. Some people make me soooo mad, but I can't wait to see their faces when they pass over and find out what its really all about :P :P :P Good luck on the course allibee

Rhiannon	12 Nov 2002
Hi crystalmynx! I'm so glad to hear you're pursuing something I'm sure you'll love doing! I think at this point I would take a "don't ask, don't tell" position. If they ask you about your spirituality you certainly shouldn't hide who you are, but I wouldn't offer the information up for general discussion either. Why make confrontations where there don't have to be any? I know it may be difficult to keep your mouth shut while they are going on and on about what they believe. Maybe when those conversations happen you could chime in with some of your own beliefs. After all, christianity can be traced back to older, pagan religions... and they're really not all that different. I hope this doesn't become so difficult that you can't enjoy yourself. Good luck! R :)

Diana	12 Nov 2002
Will your talking about it aid in your learning about reflexology, or will the tensions that your revealing this, just cause trouble so that the whole course will be spoiled? Keep your goal in mind: reflexology. It has nothing to do with your spiritual beliefs. Don't mix things up that don't need mixing up. When the Jehovah's Witnesses start ranting about their beliefs, you could just say that you would rather not waste your time discussing spirituality, but that you have paid to learn about reflexology. You'll NEVER EVER get anywhere with a Jehovah's Witness. They are brainwashed with Javel Water. Don't stoop to their level. Of course, at the end of the course, if you're really bursting, you can always tell them that they've spent a year with a witch, and ask them if they feel that they have spent a year with a devil or with a nice, tolerant, sweet person.

catlin	12 Nov 2002
I have to second Rhiannon's and Diana's post. I am not shy about telling ppl that I am a Celtic Elder Wicca but why add fuel to the fire? Enjoy your course! I am sure you'll like it a lot!

lunalafey	12 Nov 2002
to second those statements made by others.... don't ask, don't tell.....there is really no need for religion in a reflexology class. and you won't get anywhere with a 'JW' they are a confussed bunch...and very pushy. Just ignore the preaching they do, it's what thier religion wants them to do.

raeanne	12 Nov 2002
Hi, I think I would do everything I could to get these people to stop talking about religion in a reflexology class. Perhaps telling them that you appreciate their views but you paid for learning about reflexology, not religion. If they continue to talk religion, tell the instructor. My guess is that you are not the only one that is being annoyed by these people. A good instructor will try to steer the conversation away from religion. If you are meeting in a public meeting place, you might be able to use that to your advantage. I don't think anything would be gained by you telling your beliefs at this point. If you tell them you are a witch, you will just become their "project". They will do everything they can to "save your soul". This WILL drive you nuts! (Been there, done that!) Insist that they discuss reflexology only while in class. Avoid them at all cost outside of class! :-)

Laurel	12 Nov 2002
I'm going to second the wisdom of "don't ask, don't tell" and focus on Reflexology. When it comes to someone like your typical Jehovah's Witness, there's usually less stress in keeping the door closed than sharing. Dialogue requires mutual respect from both parties, and if this duo is constantly yammering about their beliefs now, knowing you are pagan is going to make them yammer more not less and be even more of a distraction. However, do take a little extra time right now to practice self-care, affirmation and ritual by yourself and other witches to compensate. Laurel

Red Emma	12 Nov 2002
Okay, I'm just learning astrology, but it seems with Uranus in my chart I'm constitutionally unable to keep my mouth shut when I'm being harassed. As a rule when I sound off and the jerks shut up from the shock, other people in the group thank me. Again and again. It's hard to believe any commercial education institution would permit behaviour from students which would seriously cripple their ability to attract additional people to the course. And, at least in my area, word of an unpleasant environment in an educational situation soon gets around and potential new students avoid it religiously -- if you'll forgive the pun. If it's a public institution, I don't know the appropriate laws and that sort of thing. In the USA it's illegal to mix church and state. Since public schools are considered "state" such behaviour as you describe shouldn't happen. However, in some of our southern states, the things you describe would be tolerated; winked at by political officials. Dissenters would be labelled "Unchristian." And you'd have little recourse if you couldn't get the jerks to shut up. And if it is a private commercial school, I'd think I would bypass the class teacher -- Is s/he permitting this stuff? -- and go straight to the administrators. Put it to them as an "It could affect your income" matter. Well, I know that the British and Europeans are less confrontational than some of us Yanks. But you shouldn't have to put up with this stuff. Okay, Red Emma, The Younger has sounded off again! I hope I don't get bounced from this list. Much love to all rebels, and eveyone else present. Red Emma, The Younger.

Diana	12 Nov 2002
Red Emma: you do make me smile! :D

Laurel	12 Nov 2002
Not scallywags or rebels or even rabble-rousers get bounced from this forum simply by being true to their inner nature, thank goodness. We'd be a much poorer community for it. Laurel

Dark Inquisitor	12 Nov 2002
Unless you enjoy arguing, you might want to just put up shield and focus on what you want to learn from the class, rather than the negative broadcast from the JW's. Perhaps the wearing of a pentacle necklace might sum up your beliefs without having to go into it. If they give you any crap, tell them they are in a cult. Then,--- RUN!!!!!!! Tarotphelia

Emily	12 Nov 2002
Unless they ask, and they won't, don't mention it. They might ask what religion you are but I doubt it, I've worked with JW's and to them you are a lost soul anyway (as I was) :) Enjoy your class, and let them get on with their preaching.

little	12 Nov 2002
I guess it depends. I probably wouldn't mention it, just because they will be suspicious of you and probably want to argue religion/ convert you when you'd rather just focus on the class. Then again, it really isn't fair that they can feel free to talk about their beliefs and you can't, so if you're willing to talk about yours at length and under attack, go for it. If they're doing this during class, I'd be all for talking with the teacher/ administrator. But if it's between or before or after class, there's not much they can (or should, truly) do about policing the subjects of conversation, unless they get anti-you or specifically bigoted. So I have no useful advice to offer, except to consider the consequences of your choice and then do whatever seems wisest.

anjocoxo	12 Nov 2002
I have to admit that JW are a bit annoying to me. It's very easy to say "don't ask, don't tell" but honestly if I were in your shoes I would have already told them one or two things (oh, my god, my soul is totally lost now...)... besides I agree with the idea of talking to the teacher about this, you don't have to put up with others' religion, you are there to learn reflexology... Just do what you feel like, I guess, but don't argue with them, it's no use at all (to them your soul is lost anyway, no matter if you're a wicca, buddist, christian, atheist, whatever....) ;) Anjo

Red Emma	12 Nov 2002
Dear Diana, Thank you. I think. R.EMMA

Kiama	13 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by crystalmynx I did tentatively mention my involvement with tarot to one of them (the less vocal of the 2) and she told me that `good` people should never go near such things and she is worried about my soul(lol). Hmmm... IMO, 'good' people don't go forcing their beliefs on othres and judging them based on a few sentences they hav spoken to them. Whatever happened to 'Judge not lest ye shall be judged?' I think I agree with what everybody else here is saying... Focus on learning Reflexology, try and ignore the JV's loud proclamations of beliefs, or maybe even try and learn something about what JV's believe... See it as one huge lesson! :D I partcicularly agre with what Laurel said about working on maintaining who you are... Maybe think about some form of regualr ritual whereby you affirm your own beliefs, you inner self, etc, which may make you feel as htough you don't need to necessarily tell the JV's in the reflexology class your beliefs... My best wishs to you... It sounds like a difficult positio to be in, so just remembre that we're here on Aeclectic if you ever need to rant about something or need some advice or support. :*:*:* Kiama

Sulis	13 Nov 2002
Thanks ever so much for all of your very good advice. I`m going to try to keep quiet and tell them I`m a witch at the end of the course - if I manage to keep quiet for a year. A ritual to reaffirm (sp?) my own beliefs is a very good idea and one that I`ll have a good think about. I`ve been laughing about the whole situation with my husband actually: What are the odds of being in a group of 10 and one of them being a JW let alone 2? Trust me (lol). And yes Kiama I may just have to have the occasional rant here on Aeclectic. Love and light Crystalmynx xx

Red Emma	13 Nov 2002
Best wishes, Crystalmynx--- I hope it works well for you. I'd still like to strap on my Spiritual Armour and go beard the Lions in their den! I've been thinking of such things as putting four candles on the four corners of my desk, calling quarters, declaring a sacred circle (making sure they were inside it) and carrying on a banishment ritual. Probably scare the daylights out of them! And well they deserve it! If I had to go a year keeping my mouth shut with such irritating garbage, I'd end up in a straight jacket. Probably never be free of it. I've asked the Goddess for a special blessing for you today. And all year. Best wishes, Red Emma

allibee	13 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Red Emma I hope it works well for you. I'd still like to strap on my Spiritual Armour and go beard the Lions in their den! I get the feeling we're in the minority on this one Red, ;) allibee being me, and making no apologies ( sounds like a rap, lolol)

cjtarot	13 Nov 2002
HI, I AM SORRY YOU ARE IN AN UNCOMFORTABLE POSITION...MY SUGGESTIONS MIRRORS SOME OF THE OTHERS..I WOULD MENTION TO THE THE TEACHER THAT THE RELIGIOUS TALK IN CLASS MAKES YOU UNCOMFORTABLE..EVEN AS A CHRISTIAN I'M NOT COMFORTABLE AROUND JW'S....AND JUST FOR THE H*!! OF IT..WEAR A HUGE PENTAGLE TO CLASS...(I THINK THAT'S SPELLED RIGHT) BLESSINGS AND GOOD WISHES CJ

aeonx	13 Nov 2002
crystalmynx: I truly hope you get through this course in one piece! :) Aiming here to body and mind. I would lose the latter one if I had to put up with the same. I'm a bit like Red Emma there I think... ;) I do think that one should aim at the goal and the course itself, but I would never been able to surpress my opinions and it would eventually damage my self-esteem. It's one thing to state your beliefs, it's another trying to push them on others and judge other belief systems as 'evil', 'bad' or anything else negative. I don't mind JW's as long as they don't try to force their opinions on me. However, I know people with 'alternative' beliefs that are just as bad or even worse! People dealing with angels, automatic writing, healing etc... If you manage to keep quiet and this is not a problem, I would have to go along with what others have said: concentrate on the course. I would not have been able to do it, and that is maybe not the best characteristic always... Anyway, I wish you bunches of good luck! ~aeonx~

Sea Sprite	13 Nov 2002
Hi crystalmynx, I have to agree with Rhiannon and Diana. Adopt the "don't tell" position. When the Jehovah's Witnesses start ranting about their beliefs, you could just ask them to keep their spirituality to themselves after all, you're all there to learn about reflexology and not religions. Jehovah Wickedness...oops...Witnesses, are totally brainwashed and are not open to hear anything besides what they want to hear so why waste your time and breath?! Why risk creating a hostile environment for yourself?! Remain focused on the subject Reflexology and have fun! :)

Sulis	14 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Red Emma I've asked the Goddess for a special blessing for you today. And all year. Best wishes, Red Emma [/b] Aww Thanks Red Emma Crystalmynx xx

zander770	19 Nov 2002
"confussed: i would personally not "need to tell", however, i would also personally "feel the need to tell them to . . ." respect my personal space (i edited that. pretty good, ah?) and respect my place there, in class, as a student, as i/you're respecting them and there's! a swear; some people! ~Z~770 :T2P

Fuzzmello	19 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Diana You'll NEVER EVER get anywhere with a Jehovah's Witness. They are brainwashed with Javel Water. Don't stoop to their level. Of course, at the end of the course, if you're really bursting, you can always tell them that they've spent a year with a witch, and ask them if they feel that they have spent a year with a devil or with a nice, tolerant, sweet person. I don't ditto, but , Fuzz

The Should I keep quiet or not? thread was originally posted on 12 Nov 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.