Intentions of Spell Casting

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 30 Dec 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Lady Skye	30 Dec 2002
I am fairly new to the board and have been reading some of the other threads on Wicca. I have been studying Wicca for the last few months. I take what I need and leave the rest; I am not into the dark side whatsoever. My dilemma is the effects of spell casting. It is my understanding that casting a spell isn't something that you should do to try to change a situation or person as they have their own free will which should not be tampered with. Is spell casting used to "enhance" a situation or circumstance or the way someone feels about you? Before I attempt any of that stuff I would like some feedback from the experienced. I need some guidance and what better place to find it than here.

Sulis	30 Dec 2002
Hi Lady Skye, welcome to Aeclectic. I think that it`s fine to use a spell to change a situation but not to effect someones free will. The most obvious example of this is a love spell: I think it`s fine to cast a spell to attract love into your life but not the love of a specific person (unless they`re consenting of course) because it should be up to them to decide who they love and not you. Someone recently posted about a break-up spell; personally I would find such a spell unethical but I wouldn`t find a spell to increase my confidence so that I`d have the courage to break up with someone unethical. Intent and visualisation are everything in spellcasting, before you begin make sure that your intent is clear, that the outcome of the spell is realistic - a spell to make you taller or to change the colour of your hair is not going to work and that you`re not messing with the free will of others and you`ll be ok. I`ve found that the more energy and effort you put into your spell the more you`ll get out - as with anything in life. Hope that`s helped a bit. Love and light Crystalmynx xx

tarotbear	30 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Lady Skye I need some guidance and what better place to find it than here. LOL! oh! ...sorry. First off: you do not have to be a Wiccan to cast a spell, and you do not have to cast spells to be a Wiccan. You are here because you must have an interest in tarot, or you just like to see what the inmates here are up to. Let me tackle tarot first: Your reading today says that on the first Tuesday after the full moon in June, a Ben & Jerry's truck is going to fall out of the sky and crush you to death. It is now the first Monday after the full moon in June. Your first reaction is "That's stupid." Then you start to think about it and you realize that on your way to work, you go under 17 overpasses and you realize a truck could easily crash through a guard rail and tumble 'OUT OF THE SKY' and crush you. Now you start to sweat. There is not other route to get to work. On Tuesday morning you decide to stay home, since if you do not go outside, no truck can fall on you. While watching the news at noon, you see a report about the Army Corps of Engineers being called in to remove a truck from an accident. You realise it is a Ben & Jerry's truck and you breathe a sigh of relief. Too bad they helicopter transport it right over your house and the chains break, sending it through your roof and crushing you to death while you watch TV...... My point is - you read Tarot for a reason. You use Tarot for a reason. Isn't it to get a leg-up on what to expect and see if there are changes you may need to make to your path? If your cards indicate that something unpleasant is going to happen, won;t you do everything within your power to change of deflect that from happening? Thus is goes with spellwork. In the Magician card, the Magician has his tools laid out in front of him. He knows how to use each one. He knows he can 'come up with' the right combination to help him get what he needs. he knows how to utilize his tiome and energy to achieve his goals. That is what spellwork is; Giving the universe a nudge or placing your request out there (a calling card, as it were) where your need is felt and acted upon. You need money because the rent is due and you are destitute. You do a money-drawing spell to bring money to you. The Powers That Be hear your request and money comes to you. Did your spell work 'enhance' the situation? Yes, even if it is only temporary. Is there anything wrong with this? As long as 'it harmed none' , everything should be fine. You are probably wondering how I am going to reconcile the two parts of this letter. If I was told a truck was going to fall out of the sky, I would do a protection spell. I would not live in fear by staying home. If that truck is going to fall out of the sky, chances are it is going to fall no matter what I do to stop the falling...but that protection spell just might deflect it enough to protect me from being hit by it.

warabi	30 Dec 2002
I may be out of place a bit here (forgive me. I'm still new to the forum) but may I ask a question? Is there really ANY spell that will not effect anyone else? Just take some of the examples given: How can a love spell cast on yourself not be imposing on another's freewill? You are making yourself more attractive magically and therefore changing another person's (perhaps many people) opinion of you. Isn't that effecting his freewill? After all, before you cast the spell he might have not even given you the time of day. As for the falling vehicle, by placing protection on yourself would not other people be in danger around you if the truck actually does fall? If you cast a spell to keep the truck from falling, what about the reason the truck did fall? If the truck was supposed to accidentally fall because it was swerving out of the way of another vehicle, by making it not fall you have endangered the person the truck was trying to avoid? For a money spell, where does that money come from? Let's say you do find $100 that someone dropped. That was someone elses money. What if you gat a raise a work? Maybe someone deserved it more than you and you magically took that from them. Please note that I am not attacking the use of magic (hard to do that when one uses it his/herself ^_^), It's just that I hear the whole "don't use magic to affect others" so often I am just curious as to what you guys think about it.

Karenwhe	30 Dec 2002
Warabi, I don't know much about spells at all. But I do know about free will and my basic perception on the ideas or theory is: if you cast a spell without involving a person a name it is free will. Lets say someone dropped 100 bucks on the floor: 1. without putting any spell - wouldn't you pick it up - you say: "wow good luck" 2. if you cast a spell and you see 100 dollars on the floor you would say......" i made that happen" - ouch that is wrong... I think that the spell did nothing other than make you see the 100 dollars on the floor or guide you to the 100 dollars that was dropped on the floor and make you see it. I think that if someone is to loose 100 dollars - they would lose it anyway..... regardless of your spell. But who will pick up that 100 dollars is another thing. What I am trying to say is that thing happened around you anyway if you want them or not, but spells is kind of making things happen for you, bringing something you want to you, without stating the source where it should come from. Anyway that is how I see things.

tarotbear	30 Dec 2002
I did a spell to attract a lover {notice the operative word here - attract }; I did not do a spell that said 'Tie him up, drop him in a gunny sack, and deliver him to my bedroom window at midnight tomorrow.' There is a big difference. My spell made some specific requests - such as someone within a certain age range and someone who would support or accept my beliefs. It did not say "I want him to have 8 inches, be four inches around, be uncut, and arrive with a gallon of lube." There is a big difference here! I was looking to {there's that word again} attract someone - make someone notice me who might not otherwise have looked at me. There are billions of people out there who could fulfill this spell; no ONE of them was forced or compelled to do anything more than meet me.

Mystica	30 Dec 2002
As Tarotbear already said, a person need not be Wiccan to do spell work. Casting spells does not mean you are automatically Wiccan either. Quoting Scott Cunningham; "If you seek only to practice magic, Wicca probably isn't the answer for you." As a Wiccan, if you always abide by the rule of 3, ("Ensure that your actions are honorable, for all that you do shall return to you three-fold, good or bane.") your spells should be ethical.

HudsonGray	31 Dec 2002
I kinda like the gunny sack & midnight delivery (are fries included with it?). Anyhow, the self love spell ATTRACTS attention. It's up to both individuals to make the decision as to whether or not to converse, continue or in any way follow through on the 'notice' they both feel. By attracting someones notice who is willing to be in a relationship with the type of person you are, and giving BOTH freedom to back away should they decide, there is no interfering with the other person. As for money to come to you--it can come from practically out of nowhere & NOT short someone else's pocket. I recently received a $10 check in the mail from an insurance company I didn't recognise. I called them & found out it was an overpayment on my co-pay from 2 jobs ago, they'd gone over their books & invoices from 1999 & 2000 & found that I'd overpaid. I've heard similar money spells where the other person found that by refinancing their house they saved years on payments AND had to pay $75 less a month. No money came from someone's pocket or was lost on the ground. It CAN come from elsewhere & be legit. Maybe you lent some out & the people remember, years later, & pay you back? Maybe you stuck $100 in a box & it got packed, lost in a move, and you come across it in the attic junk. Maybe you took something you got for $2 at a rummage to the Antiques Roadshow when it comes into town & it's worth $400. You sell it online & made money from it when not expecting it to be worth more than $2. Point is, money can come from everywhere, not just be found on the ground (though I HAVE found $150 in a purse in the middle of the road with no ID in it--I turned it into the police station, who said they'd NEVER in the history of that station had money turned in to them, they had a call 3 hours later from a lady frantic to find it, she gave me $30 reward, I got Xmas presents for people with it). As for falling trucks, sometimes fate just has to do it & nothing will deter the outcome. If someone is fated to get hit, they do. So long as YOU don't cause the accident & contribute, you've harmed none. You didn't space the cars apart to have one individual be under it when it fell, or any other version of the story. As with every magic you try, if you include 'and it harm none' and mean it, you eliminate the bad sides. Your magic may not work because every option WOULD have harmed someone, or it may work much differently than you thought it would. But cover your butt & trust it to follow through (or not) as it will.

Lady Skye	31 Dec 2002
As Tarotbear already said, a person need not be Wiccan to do spell work. Casting spells does not mean you are automatically Wiccan either. Quoting Scott Cunningham; "If you seek only to practice magic, Wicca probably isn't the answer for you." ___________________________________________________ Thanks to everyone who is replying. The spell casting is only part of the Wiccan faith that I am studying and it is part of what this faith believes in and does. It is the area I am most cautious about, as again, harm ye none! I am not seeking to practice magic only and perhaps not at all. I am also studying the tarot, crystal healing, mediumship and martial arts. They all tie in together on a spiritual path along with my Wiccan studies. Spell work can backfire in the hands of those who "know not what they do." There are people who go ahead and do things without full knowledge (or any knowledge) and then ask questions later....once it's too late. Happy New Year everyone.

DarkElectric	31 Dec 2002
Tarotbear... I sure don't think there would be anything wrong with doing some spellwork for the type of gent you described, as long as I don't put a specific person's name to it, right...??? Thank you for the great idea, I'll get on that one right away. I'd kick the $100.00 on the floor out of the way if I had a chance of finding a guy like that! Happy New Year!

Kiama	01 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by warabi How can a love spell cast on yourself not be imposing on another's freewill? You are making yourself more attractive magically and therefore changing another person's (perhaps many people) opinion of you. Isn't that effecting his freewill? After all, before you cast the spell he might have not even given you the time of day. As for the falling vehicle, by placing protection on yourself would not other people be in danger around you if the truck actually does fall? If you cast a spell to keep the truck from falling, what about the reason the truck did fall? If the truck was supposed to accidentally fall because it was swerving out of the way of another vehicle, by making it not fall you have endangered the person the truck was trying to avoid? For a money spell, where does that money come from? Let's say you do find $100 that someone dropped. That was someone elses money. What if you gat a raise a work? Maybe someone deserved it more than you and you magically took that from them. Hello Warabi and welcome to Aeclectic! I'm not going to attack what you're saying here, just add something to it to help this discussion along a little, and give another view of this. The examples you gae above are what I would call 'external change magick': They focus on making things happen externally. But, that's not the only reason one can use magick: We can use it to create internal change aswell. So, we could also have examples such as: 1) A spell to make yourself feel more confident through making yourself seing your strengths and liking who you are 2) A spell to make yourself concentrate harder on your revision for those end-of-term exams. (You're not making the exams any easier or the examner any softer, you're just making yourself mor eopen to knowledge and more likely to remember.) I do not use external magick at all nowadays, and stick purely to internal magick, not because I value one higher than the other, but because the external things can be affected in the mundance world instead of going into the magickal. (And, just as a side note, introducing the remarkable difference in the way we view magickal action compared to mundane action: You talk about magickally stopping the truck from falling over... Would you hesitate to stop that truck falling over if you could do it mundanely? I wouldn't. Yet why worry about it magickally?) Kiama

Major Tom	02 Jan 2003
This is just my twist on magick & spellcasting - please feel free to add salt or ignore: :D We are all magickal creatures. Every action we take and every word we say has magickal consequences. Only a willed action or word is true magick. Casting a spell is an application of will. Magick is not something you do - it is something you are. })

warabi	03 Jan 2003
So THAT is how it is thought of here. Thanks to everyone who replied to answer my question. I have learned a lot. I understand that some, mostly Wiccan who practice magic, look at their intentions of casting a spell closely so not to disturb this "Rule of Three" (I recognize the term, but I don't want to guess what it is). Is this some sort of Karma thing? "Cause and Effect"? Or is it self-inflicted? Whenever I have attempted a spell it usually ends for the better and I don't seem to get punished... or is it a hidden punishment we get for receiving what we recieved through our intentions?

warabi	03 Jan 2003
Whoops! Forgot to add something in last post ^_^. Mr. Major Tom, I am interested in your idea concerning magic being all the time. Could you explain more on your idea?

Sulis	03 Jan 2003
You don`t get punished for spellcasting. The Wiccan 3 fold law says that whatever you give out you get back 3 times, it`s a karmic sort of thing - if you give out good you`ll get good back, same goes for bad. I`m not wiccan myself but I do aggree with this basic rule, don`t really know about the 3 flold bit but I definately think that you reap what you sow both with spells and everything else. IMO there`s absolutely nothing wrong with doing magic for your own ends though as long as you`re not huting anyone. Love and light Crystalmynx xx

warabi	03 Jan 2003
Thank you Crystalmynx for answering. Now that I know it is a Karma Thing, how is it purified? Maybe I should explain what I am thinking more. Forgive me for my lack of knowledge (and my poor english), but it is my understanding that traditional Wicca does not apply eastern practice (karma being a primaraly Buddhist belief), though I have heard there is a new Wicca that is a sort of pick and choose practice. Do they then purify their Karma with the Vajurasataba (sorry, I do not know how it is written in English and it is not in my dictionary), recite the buddahs and meditate on nothingness? Another thing I do not understand is that the way you explained it almost sounds as if this 3 fold law is only a temporary thing (of course, that could be my lack of english, so I apoligize if that is not what you intended to mean). Karma is always moving. It doesn't just bite you for doing something bad and disappear, it stays with you forever and it multiplies constantly and it not only applies to actions, but thoughts as well, so even if you think about casting a spell that would hurt someone it would appear. The only way to stop it from growing is to purify it daily. Please, could you help rid myself of confusion and explain so I can better understand this? I would greatly appreciate it!

HudsonGray	03 Jan 2003
Every religion has something similar--the 10 commandments, the Karmic laws, retribution for actions..........even the 'golden rule' of doing unto others as you want them to do unto you. You can think of it as acting in such a way as to not hurt others because it's not right. OR you can think of it as 'like draws to like'. So if you're focusing on affecting other people for you own convenience, you're sending out negative energy which in turn will draw negative energy TO you which can really get nasty. Doing good means you're surrounded with good energy, drawing more good to you. That applies to the Rule of 3 also--do somethng good, it comes back threefold - bad & it comes back bad threefold. It won't be EXACTLY three times what you sent out, but it does indicate that there are repurcussions to what your actions are & you will be feeling them. (Gee, that's the definition in a way of Karma too...). I don't look at it as a temporary reaction coming back to you, because it's not based much on single actions so much as on how you live your life. You're constantly making decisions on what to do & what not to do, whether it's focused on using magic or on just how you deal with people day to day. Want to see it in action? Next time you're in a store buying something, when you get to the checkout counter & pay, look the lady/guy right in the eye & give them a huge happy smile & say thank you. Watch how they react, they get so much hassle during the day that a smile instantly brings them alive. You've just exchanged good energy with someone & it will help them be bouyed up for a time now in their work day. Positive energy is real easy to see go out & affect people. Negative sometimes gets an immediate reaction too but the effects aren't as nice.

warabi	03 Jan 2003
Thanks for replying to my question HudsonGray! True that many beliefs use similar ideas, you have a very good point. But if they are different in ways too, right? I definatly agree that Karma is just as you described it in your second paragraph, if you send out negitive energy the negitive energy come back to you, but that is the only way I see Karma and the 3 rule similar, and it is a very small similarity comparitive to what makes them work. From what I am understanding, The 3 rule is a temporary effect and that if you think about doing a spell, but reconsider doing it because you realize it could hurt someone and forget about it, it doesn't effect you at all. But, if you do the spell anyway, the energy will come back at you and then be gone and same with a good action as well. Karma, on the other hand, is not a temporary effect and is constantly working. Every move you make, every thought in your mind, every breath you breathe, everything generates karma! Sure, if you cast a bad spell on some one, negative karma comes back to you, but it is also true that if you step on an ant and NEVER knew you had done so, you have gained negative karma. If someone was being mean to you and you thought in your mind "This person is a mean man" you have gained negatve karma. Take a medicine to cure yourself from a cold? That generates negative karma as well because you are killing the thing which caused you to be sick. And to top it all off. all the negitive karma from your past lives stay with you as well. This negatve Karma stays and grows with you unless you can keep it from growing by daily purification. It doesn't just go away and it does not disappear when you get good karma and it is constantly multiplying. But, just because you have mass amouts of bad karma doesn't mean it will hurt you right away after a negitive action has been done. I don't understand why the 3 rule could be described as karma, because, from what little I understand of 3 rule, they are very different things. Same with the other examples: The 10 commandments is a set of social behavior and worship rules that, when broken or followed, determine where God puts your soul after you die. Karma involves reincarnation for one thing, and goes a bit beyond general social rules. It also, in itself, has little to do with worship beyond purification rituals. The golden rule is a completly social rule, not dealing with worship at all, but their are no spiritual reprocussions (sp?) for not following it. I am not familiar with the "retribution for actions" rule, beyond what it implies in english. Could you explain a bit more? Anyway, do you understand what I am thinking? Personally, I just cannot connect the two together.

warabi	03 Jan 2003
I just read your post again and read the paragraph you added (how did you do that by the way?) I still don't agree with trying to tie Karma and 3 rule together, but I definatly see what you are saying. As for the supermarket thing, come try that "smile and thank you" in Seattle some time. About half the people you try it on will ignore you or say something nasty like "don't give me that smily sh**". Happens to me all the time (I'm a smily person) ^_^. Some people just have too much negative energy... Also, as explained above, Karma isn't about what you know you are doing. It is about WHAT you have done, whether you knew you did it or not.

Ursula	09 Jan 2003
Quote: posted by Tarotbear: It did not say "I want him to have 8 inches, be four inches around, be uncut, and arrive with a gallon of lube." yeah but i think the Universe knows what you were thinking Tarotbear! LMFAO :laugh: whew! anyhoot, um, where was i...??? oh right spellcasting... i gave a little informational talk on Wicca to some people at my very open and eclectic church (Unitarian Universalist). one of those present asked me, "Is magic an attempt to get the Universe on your side like prayer is an attempt to get God on your side?" i said that in my opinion, the Universe was already on my side; if i do a spell, i'm saying, very emphatically, that i've decided to be on my side, too. i think that once the Universe "sees" that, it gives the blessings that are already out there waiting my permission to burst forth into my life. just in case, i always add, "By the power and will of the God, the Goddess and the Spirit Akasha that makes them One, so mote it be." that way the will of the Universe can prevail regardless. bright blessings! ~Urs :OL

Kiama	16 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by warabi Whoops! Forgot to add something in last post ^_^. Mr. Major Tom, I am interested in your idea concerning magic being all the time. Could you explain more on your idea? Hope Major Tom doesn't mind me jumping in on this one...? Since him and I share the same belief on this issue, he'd probably say the same thing but in different words! Magick can be defined as a focus of the will and energy to obtain a goal or achieve a desire. So, we do a spell to obtain more confidence, to pass our exams... But we also focus our will and energy to obtain a goal when we, for instance, write a letter, create a CV, drink a cup of tea. Mundance actions have the same definition as magickal ones, and they also have consequences just as magickal ones do, which we need to deal with as we would with magickal ones. Ultimately, we need to queston what the difference is between so-called 'mundane' and 'magickal' actions. Is there really any difference? Does the paramedic who heals somebody perform a different action to the spell-caster who casts a healing spell? We may also need to bear in mind here that lots of us believe that the divine, the sacred, or God/Goddess is everywhere, in everything. As Major Tom says so beautifully: 'God is everywhere. He's in you, me, my cup of tea...' He;s not claiming to have a sacred cup of tea, he's merely stating the fact that he believes God to be everywhere. Thus, everything is sacred, including all actions, making both mundane and magickal actions just as holy/sacred as each other. Does this help? Kiama

Major Tom	17 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama Hope Major Tom doesn't mind me jumping in on this one...? Sweetheart, you may jump in anywhere you like. ;) One nitpick - God is everything. But you are absolutely right, there's no difference whatsoever between mundane actions and magickal actions. They both have consequences. ;) The real message here is: THINK BEFORE YOU ACT!

january	17 Jan 2003
When I was in college (I won't say how many years ago) a friend of mine at the time was so into this guy that she would do ANYTHING to get him. Problem? He had a girlfriend but the relationship was shaky. She performed a spell to separate them and bring him to her. At the time, I wasn't into spell casting at all and the whole idea was a bit foreign - yet interesting - to me. What happenned? Well, in retrospect I now know that her intent and will was strong. The guy dumped his girl (I truly feel this was about to happen anyway, spell or no spell) and suddenly had feelings for Beth (my friend). They began to see each other. The problem? He turned out to be NOTHING what she expected himto be. He was possessive, jealous and unrelenting. She grew tired of this and broke up with him. He couldn't accept this and came after her with much aggression. She could not get rid of him. However, when she finally thought that he was out of he life, she received a phone call from the trauma center at the hospital. Apparently he tried to commit suicide because she woouldn't take him back. Everything finally mellowed but she was left with feelings of confusion and guilt. The moral is that you just may get EXACTLY what you ask for... be sure that you can handle it. And the karma/rule of three/golden rule may not always be as literal as you think - bad energy can come back to you in a most unlikely form. This is not an urban legend. I swear.

The Intentions of Spell Casting thread was originally posted on 30 Dec 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.