Secret of life !!!

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 14 Dec 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Ramses	14 Dec 2002
Hey Folks... How are you?...Hope youīre all fine !!! Well, after so long...Iīm back !!! So, here it goes... Budhism says the reason for all evil is desire... Ancient egyptian religion said we had to get rid of the ilusions of life... Other religions say similar things... Well...I agree with them... Once you free yourself from all the desire in life, leaving nothing to wish for, you accept life as it is, so that you can be open for the real and truly valuable things in existance !!! Love, as we usually see it, is also something bad, for it plants in our souls the seeds of possessiveness, and selfishness, etc. We should do as the ancient egyptians used to preach...they said:"the immortals(souls that had transcended) live through love; the wise(a higher level of spirituality, compared to the gods) live through virtues"... I donīt say love is really bad, just that itīs not the highest good, or the spiritual perfection...virtue, as a general concept is...I guess... So...what do you think???....Do you agree with me? Have you got rid of your desires, in order to finally go after the ultimate spiritual elevation??? Love to you all !!!!!!!!!!!

temperlyne	15 Dec 2002
"ultimate spiritual elevation" can not be reached (IMHO) without love. Pure love has got nothing to do with desire but everything with the warm feeling of connection. Connection to everything and acceptance of that connection is a major part in pure love and spiritual elevation. Desire is no love, but simply desire, projection of selfish needs.

Ramses	15 Dec 2002
I understand what you mean... When said love, above, I meant the love as we usually see it, as I wrote before... I agree with you that pure love might be different...of course, we have to define what that is exactly.... and, I didnīt mean desire, as connected to the physical thing...I meant desire as desire....general desire....desire for material success, for wealth, for things we want, and objectives we want to achieve, making these desires such a selfish thing they would keep us from evolving... well...but thatīs all too complicated... oh...and thanks for your kind opinion....

temperlyne	15 Dec 2002
I'm sorry if I seemed a bit agressive trying to defend what I call love.. But you see I need to believe in love. Pure love and beauty (as in harmony) are the only things that measure up against all the ugglyness and hate in the world today. Call me romantic, but I need to believe that love is the answer, that love is true.

Damien X	15 Dec 2002
Isn't this a question of semantics: how we define the concept of love. And don't forget that Buddha, instead of staying behind in his revelations made under the tree, went back into the physical world to enlighten the mankind about the values worth living for. That, my friend, was an act of love.

Karenwhe	15 Dec 2002
What is love? my two cents: Love is an energy frequency (electro-magnetic field) *probably* the highest frequency to the soul energy. This frequency is not fully understood by us (humans) when incarnated in an organism (body) but our soul lives in this frequency (part of why we keep searching for love) because we want to connect to that frequency to our soul which hovers around us. Because we find it hard to tune to that frequency - pure love of all and the universe (this is how we humans call it) - hence we don't succeed to define it. And we keep trying to define it in so many ways (including religious) that are just countless. just my two cents.

allibee	15 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Karenwhe This frequency is not fully understood by us (humans) when incarnated in an organism (body) but our soul lives in this frequency (part of why we keep searching for love) because we want to connect to that frequency to our soul which hovers around us. As an aside, it is interesting you should say that as many believe, as I do, that the reason many people are always searching for that elusive love and never find their soul mate, is because their soulmate hasn't been reincarnated into this persons life, although they are around this person in spirit. Like a spiritual fingerprint. allibee

Kaz	15 Dec 2002
the desire mentioned in buddism, it does not mean get totally rid of desires, but let desire not rule you. when you live in the now, dont cling to past emotions, and dont worry about things in the future you cannot do anything about now, your desires are gone... about love, i dont think love has to do with desire..... kaz

Karenwhe	15 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by allibee As an aside, it is interesting you should say that as many believe, as I do, that the reason many people are always searching for that elusive love and never find their soul mate, is because their soulmate hasn't been reincarnated into this persons life, although they are around this person in spirit. Like a spiritual fingerprint. Exactly. That is part of that theory.

Major Tom	16 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Ramses Love, as we usually see it, is also something bad, for it plants in our souls the seeds of possessiveness, and selfishness, etc. Love to you all !!!!!!!!!!! I reckon the secret to life is what you want. Desire plays it's part in everyone's life - even those who have renounced desire. Their desire becomes the absence of desire. I think you're talking about romantic love planting the seeds of possessiveness, selfishness and jealousy and this is undoubtably true... but can we really call that love? I echo your gift of love to all. :)

allibee	16 Dec 2002
If we had no desires we would have no goals. Even fish and plants have goals to ensure survival. Do rocks have goals and desires.... I don't think so, even though they have the same energy as all things on our planet. So, I don't want to be an inanimate rock. (((((((((((LOVE,ENERGY,DESIRE)))))))))))) allibee

Damien X	16 Dec 2002
Desires and goals are necessary for our survival I think, and I utterly agree with you allibee. I mean even Buddha had them in the sense of wanting to become enlightened. The negative part emerges when those feelings turns into obsessions, because it then locks the mind preventing us from seeing clearly. Moderation, or temperance, is the key.

Laurel	16 Dec 2002
Hullo Ramses! I believe the opposite than you do. I believe desire is a Good thing, an awesome thing. I simply think that was we evolve, the object of our desire changes and becomes less immediate and banal. I think life should be an ecstatic experience full of pleasure and love, tempered by nobility. I believe that the Isolate Intelligence is to be embraced, for we are the conduits by which the universe knows itself and if the universe wanted to be stagnant and asleep, it would not have created human beings the way we are. I believe that the universe does not wish us to completely remerge back into it, losing our uniqueness and cut off its ability to experience infinite possibility via us. I believe each of us should consider ourselves a unique god-in-potentiality and live our lives according to how we wish gods would live, and manifest into the world that which we believe should exist. I accept the possibility I am misguided and wrong, but I don't worry about it much. :P Laurel

Ramses	17 Dec 2002
Hey folks... How are you?....Hope youīre all fine!!! Ok...I admit I was wrong, in terms... You all convinced me that love and desire can be good things...I am not so enthusiastic as most of you about the idea of love and desire being the key, but...I still havenīt found the words, the right ones, to name what I think is more evolved than love and desire...I think I will call them "enlightened love" and "enlightened desire"...lol But I still think that love and desire are two dangerous things, if one does not handle them right...if one lets them rule their lives....in this case, love and desire can transform into the two most dangerous things... ops...now I have to start another thread about this subject....hehe Enlightened love to you all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Laurel	17 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Ramses But I still think that love and desire are two dangerous things, if one does not handle them right...if one lets them rule their lives....in this case, love and desire can transform into the two most dangerous things... Letting ~anything~ "rule our lives" in a blind fashion is dangerous. It leads to obession and fanaticism. Everything, love, desire, piety, remorse, sacrifice, innocence, taken to an obsessive extreme is dangerous. KNOW THYSELF AND YOU WILL KNOW THE HEAVENS & THE GODS. NOTHING TO EXCESS. Those old greek dudes at Delphi knew that the secrets to life and happiness were easy to define, hard to do.

Diana	17 Dec 2002
Oh Ramses! How I missed you! Don't you go away ever again, okay? And that's not a desire, that's an order! :laugh: Until we gain self-knowledge, we will always desire. If one day, we gain pure enlightenment, get rid of all our duality and merge into the purity and harmony of Love, then all desire will cease. Not wishing to desire, is a desire itself. It is self-defeating. If now, you just accept everything, then you're not getting rid of desire, you're just giving up and you will descend back into the stage of a larva. Well, maybe. What am I talking about anyway? How the hell do I know? - lol - . Anyway, I desired you return to the forums and you did and I am happy. :)

Fuzzmello	17 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Diana If now, you just accept everything, then you're not getting rid of desire, you're just giving up and you will descend back into the stage of a larva. I think there's a semantic division in this thread. People have pointed out that desire in and of itself is not bad, and in fact is healthy. Others have shown that love, be it romance or 'charity' reveals this type of desire. Maybe we should take a look at the word desire as meaning the desire to control people and events. Now we see 'desire' as something that can be a good and necessary thing even as it contains the potential to trap us. Accepting everything as it is at the moment is certainly not giving up! Try it for a day. Exhausting! We're so used to controlling or attempting to control so much in our lives we have to make a real conscience effort to keep from doing it. We have to desire that quality a lot. See what I mean? The urge to make things more secure, safer and easier to deal with is at the bottom of this 'desire' issue. Accepting that everything is perfect as it is might make more sense. Not accepting every person or event as they are, but that they are as they should be at the present moment. Big difference. Fuzz

Ramses	19 Dec 2002
oh...thanks Diana...I missed you too, a lot...you were always a great person, and will ever be .... But, concerning the desire subject...I think that desire is not necessary for highly enlightened beings....desire, in my opinion, is something subjective and , maybe, a bit selfish...once you transcend, there is no (subjective) desire, but only a (objective) feeling for doing the necessary thing...a feeling of necessity of evolving what is not desire.... To me, as I understand it, desire is the manifestation of a need, a necessity, the necessity of searching for something that lacks in our lives...to me thatīs desire...itīs different, though, of knowing we gotta do the right thing: evolve, help, etc. But what I really think that is happening in this thread and others, is that we all have different ideas of what desire, love, etc really are....we all have different definitions for those things....after all, feelings canīt be precisely described, can they?...otherwise all poets would be out of job....lol... Love to you all !!!!!

The Secret of life !!! thread was originally posted on 14 Dec 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.