THE SPIRAL DANCE - by Starhawk

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 19 Dec 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Pollux	19 Dec 2002
This evening I went shopping with my twin sister, just to wash off my regrets I had not bought anything yet for my parents. Got some Cds, some little stones for friends... I wanted to check that only bookshop in Naples selling Tarot Decks (yep, that one I am always raving about *LOL*) to see if they had got anything new tarot-wise, and also because I had been waiting for a Stained Glass to arrive for ages... Guess what I see? A new ESOTERICA section, that had just been organised and set up, with lots of attractive covers. Of course, as soon as I approached, I saw 90% of it was rubbish and a good part was Italian and fictional rubbish as well. But what did my eyes see? Below the small flag with "ESOTERIA", below it's pedestal and almost entirely covered by it, "Living Wicca" by Scott Cunningham (the Further Guide). I took it at once, without worrying about the price, I had been so lucky to see it, I could have passed by without noticing the flag... And there I go, book in hands, browsing through the only crappy Tarot Book that is there (Tarots by a couple, Davidson or Donaldson, or something like that, and if you help me identify it I am glad) - what do I see when I put the book back? "LA DANZA A SPIRALE" - that is, Spiral Dance... for €18 !!! That's a lot!!! I was so surprised to find two possibly decent books on Wicca, and in the same place, and 100% by chance completely. But I could not afford getting both, so I had to pick one, and I picked SD cos it was twice as thick, and felt better in my hands, and costed just an additional €3 for something fresher and new (I like Scott Cunningham, but I am not in love with him, and browsing the book most of the stuff was already seen somewhere, maybe the first book? :P *LOL*). And there were only two copies of the Spiral Dance, and a hundred of LW so I can always go back and take that too... :P Now, I won't mention the new decks in stock I had to skip to get the book... *LOL* I am really excited, a marvellous new reading for YULE, and a book I have seen positively reviewd more or less - unless I have a huge piece of my brain rotting away... I want to know: - Do you think I picked the right book? - What do you think of the book? - Is there something relevant I should know before/while/afer reading it? - Have you got any suggestions? Any feedback appreciated. Thanks! :D

DarkElectric	19 Dec 2002
Congratulations, Pollux! I love "the Spiral Dance". It was one of my first books on magic, and the craft in general, and I found it very informative, senitively written, and a lot of fun to read. The excercises are really good, and helped me a lot when I was first starting out. Starhawk describes a lot of coven stuff in this book, but a solitary can get a lot out of it, you don't necessarily have to join or create a coven, or anything like that. How do you like it so far?

Maan	19 Dec 2002
Hi Pollux I think you did the right thing..i have both books and i liked starhawks one much better. I'm not a big fan of Cunningham so i might be a little biased. Here book make you think about the way you want to live your craft. It might be a little woman oriented. A friend of mine who read it thought so. I did not notice but i'm a women and would probebly not notice it! :* Enjoy your new treasure;) Maan

truthsayer	19 Dec 2002
i think spiral dance is definitely the best choice. i got one of the first editions and recently bought an updated version. the book is interesting to read and easy to follow. i like cunningham but i think he's a bit dry. i think you can learn more from starhawk. starhawk is a multi-faceted individual.

RedWood	19 Dec 2002
I tried reading Starhawk..I could not for the life of me..Get into it! Maybe because i like more Shamanism then wicca? (I know you know this pollux lol) I am glad you found a book !!

Silverlotus	19 Dec 2002
I have to agree with everyone else. I think Spiral Dance was the better choice. I found a lot of the info in Living Wicca was just rewording of things from Wicca: A Guide... Now, I haven't finished reading Spiral Dance. I actually found Aeclectic about the time I decided to give it a go. :) But from what I read, it was pretty good. It is heavily coven based and I'm solitary, but it's not to hard to adapt things to fit my ways and style. I also think Starhawk is a bit more scientific in her approach to teaching then say Cunningham. Anyway, be sure to let us know how you feel about the book once you start reading it. I really should get back to it, but my Tarot studies are eating up so much time now. :P

Pollux	20 Dec 2002
YAY! then, seems like I picked the right one. :) I have not started reading the book yet, it's resting underneath the awful Xmas tree my sister set up - I am pretending it's a Yule present I will open tomorrow! ;) *LOL* From the brief lines I have read, it seems like there's a lot to learn; lots of discussions about "creating your own religion" that sounds as fascinating, and I must admit that despite the mischoice in the title (I thought "La Danza DELLA Spirale" conveyed the meaning better), the translation is very good basing my assessment on short excerpts I have found online. It is funny to read that some people dislikes Cunningham for the same reasons I do... *LOL* I find it a bit dry too, and with a streak of all-knowing-ness when he criticizes every behaviour plus one... A good part of the other book reminded me of the "Wicca: a Guide.." as well, and entire chapter carried mostly the same content. I might decide to pink that one too, though, after the holidays... }) Another element that persuaded me to get TSD was the long table of correspondences in the end, with the different purposes and all - sometimes Internet only provides basic and disappointing info, and checking more complex sites is just daunting... I also think this is the translation of the newest edition of the book: there are three acknowledgement pages, or notes to the different editions, and two appendixes: one is "notes: ten years later", the other is twenty. So I think I just got the latest release, and this makes me extra happy (I can also feel relief since I won't have to hunt down updated ones either... *LOL*) Pfiuuu, Ithink I said all I wanted to say. Thank you all! I love you! :* :* :*

Laurel	20 Dec 2002
I don't even remember how _Spiral Dance_ and _Magic, Sex and Politics_ got their way into my hot little young teenage way back when but Starhawk was the author who opened my eyes to the idea that witchcraft was real, and what I'd been doing instinctively, praying to the Moon and triple aspects and the Earth as light and dark mother. Nowadays, there's so much on Wicca out there. But I remember in the mid 70s, when there wasn't, especially if you weren't thrilled with Gardner. Starhawk was one of my first spiritual "teachers" and I think both feminizism and Wicca were lucky to have her. Laurel

cyan	21 Dec 2002
good luck to you Pollux. Cunningham is good, and would show you the facts of wicca, but Starhawk will take you dancing in the moonlight.

Pollux	21 Dec 2002
You guess? Yesterday I was browsing some online bookstores (where I will never buy anything *LOL*) and I also learnt of another translation/edition I MUST GET before it's too late: Green Witchcraft by Ann Moura. :D (And after that "Aradia: The Gospel..." and "The white Goddess" by Graves) I have glimpsed at the book again - bad boy *LOL* - and I briefly browsing I have seem many contributions from man, and an equal or almost (it seems) weight for God and Goddess. Reading the subtitle, and some biographic notes, I am a bit worried this work is rather feminist and "sided" too... Laurel also mentioned feminism, I hope this is not the case.

ihcoyc	21 Dec 2002
When I was younger, for a while I was captivated by Wicca. Starhawk cured me. She's managed to give Wicca as much political baggage as Christianity has! No mean feat, IMNPHO.

Talon	22 Dec 2002
Hi I too feel the Spiral Dance was a great choice. It was the second book I read on the Craft. (I read Cunningham's first book whilst waiting for this one on order). I found TSD to be a wonderful mixture of poetry and pragmatism (I hope that is the right word!). I have also read Moura's book. It is about witchcraft as she was taught by her mother and grandmother, so it's not Wicca. But she does compare the two and her craft is similar. I really enjoyed her style of writing and there is heaps of information in there, including sample sabbat rituals, basic rituals and correspondence tables. She even has a brief (really really brief) Tarot section. I enjoyed this book also (but not as good as TSD). Talon

Sulis	28 Dec 2002
I`m sure you`ll enjoy `The Spiral Dance` Pollux, it`s a beautifully written book, one of those which draws you back to it again and again. Haven`t read `Green Witchcraft` but it`s definately one I`d like to have a look at. Enjoy and a very Happy Yule to you:D Love and light Crystalmynx xx

Pollux	28 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by ihcoyc When I was younger, for a while I was captivated by Wicca. Starhawk cured me. She's managed to give Wicca as much political baggage as Christianity has! No mean feat, IMNPHO. Well, I have waded my way through a good half of the book, and I think it's time to talk of it. ihcoyc: I see your point. It's true, the writer gives a lot of importance and stress to a militant approach to the (Witch)Craft - and this is even stronger now, I gather you have not checked the appendixes and introductions for the 10th and 20th year re-edition. Especially in the latter, she reports plenty of actions and deals with that "side" a lot. But all in all, I don't mind it at all! :D *LOL* Honestly, I really dig her take on it, and her very pragmatical approach. It mirrors almost exactly my way to see the "matter": religion as always been an "active" field of my life (Venus in 9th ruled by Sun and Moon, Stellium in Sagittarius/1st house Jup/Uranus *LOL*), and this since I was Christian: I served mass and was engrossed in a lot of activities... I always knew I needed a practical side of what were my inner sensations, and this ages before knowing what I did and felt was Pagan/Wiccan... Political implications and consequent action seems to be a legitimate development of the way you see the world around you. I am only relieved there is someone else who is as drenched in the association Wicca/Politics as me - I have had a couple clashes about this in Italian Forums... *LOL* The feminist and political perspective are not exclusive of Starhawk, by my personal experience: they are quite widespread in literature and mostly because it's written by women, with their own relationship and sense of The Goddess. I am not given to feel the exact same way as they do, but I certainly respect their choice. I can see the reasons behind it, and detect exagerations and excesses or disregard motivations I don't agree with. Yet I understand her points perfectly, and could not find a better way to put it. As for political baggages... I don't think we can get into that. Politics are simply a part of life, as well as religion... In the old days they walked so hand in hand, didn't they? And maybe they have't stopped yet... And the two baggages can't be compared - chirstianity has a much heavier effect on society and the world than Witchcraft has nowadays, and has had for ages... A comparison is in my opinion ridiculous. The only political baggage I can see is a sincere, genuine interest in the preservation of the environment, which can't be claimed to be an exclusive for Pagan or Wiccan groups. An action in that sense is merely an act of human ethics, and not pagan or religious ones... And if one reads a book, they are likewise supposed to have a problematic and critical approach... You surely are not supposed to make as yours ideas or opinions you don't accept or cannot relate with. Also, if one can't see a political side to it, it doesn't mean the rest is not valid altogheter. Hopefully that was not the reason why you were "saved" by Wicca, or not the only one...

ihcoyc	28 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Pollux As for political baggages... I don't think we can get into that. Politics are simply a part of life, as well as religion... In the old days they walked so hand in hand, didn't they? And maybe they have't stopped yet... And the two baggages can't be compared - chirstianity has a much heavier effect on society and the world than Witchcraft has nowadays, and has had for ages... A comparison is in my opinion ridiculous. Politics may well be an unavoidable part of life. But much rides on how the game is played, and specifically the grace and courtesy we show or fail to show to those with whom we disagree. This is why mixing politics and religion is dangerous and deplorable. A person whose political beliefs are literally sacred becomes incapable of compromise, and turns into a bad neighbour. This is why the Christian Right is so obnoxious; not only because the positions they take are authoritarian, there's plenty of that to go around on all sides of the political spectrum, but because their shrill certainty about everything makes them impossible to reason with as fellow citizens. I got a very similar vibe from Starhawk's book when I read it in the early Eighties. I suspect that she imagines that anyone who disagrees with her is a dupe of the "patriarchy," utterly lost in false consciousness, and a waste of time talking to. There's only one right way of thinking --- her way --- and those who disagree simply don't count. Because her views probably aren't going to command wide acceptance, this puts her in a spot where her politics are broken from the get go. She seems to believe that the whole nation is a conspiracy against her, and looks to some kind of ecological apocalypse to tear down capitalism and usher in utopia. This disturbed me.

The THE SPIRAL DANCE - by Starhawk thread was originally posted on 19 Dec 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.