Who was Jesus?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 30 Dec 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

warabi	30 Dec 2002
I have just read the posts discussing what sin was and if Jesus sinned or not and I found them to be absolutly facinating topics! For those of you interested on exploring more about Jesus and others opinions on him, I ask the question: Who was Jesus? Here are a few things to think about (all quotes come from the KJV bible): Did Jesus Teach Kindness? *Matthew 7:1-2 "Judge not lest ye be judged. For with what judgement ye judge,ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Did He Follow his Own Teachings? *Matthew 22:18 "But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?" Was Jesus a Man of Peace? *Matthew 10:34-36 "Think not that I am to send peace on earth. I came not to send peace but a sword. For I am come to set a man at varience against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law." What about the commandment "Honor thy mother and Father?" You don't have to quote the bible when giving your opinion, but if you are using the bible please show where to find the passage at. I am looking forward to reading what people have to think about this topic, but please, lets be nice! I know that this is a touchy subject, but I ask that this topic be used as a topic of friendly debate so we can learn from others opinions and shape our own, not an argument.

cricket	30 Dec 2002
Jesus was a man. No more than that, and no less. He was smart and knew how to give an oration. He was kind and gentle, but also had a temper (like the story of destroying the booths of the marketplace that were in the temple. Don't know the exact book, chapter, veses, but remember it being in there somewhere). Was he a child of God? Of course! Then again, all of us are children of God. And the Goddess. Every last one of us carries a piece of the divine within. It just shows more in some than in others. The other three questions in that first post can honestly be answered by either yes or no. That would be the same as asking those questions about any of the 'great leaders' of the ages. ANY of them. That includes the ones that people see as 'evil' because of their methods. Like Hitler. IMO, Jesus and Hitler actually had a lot in common. *ducks the attacks* It's true! They were both leaders of their people, they both taught a different way of thinking to many people, they were both great orators, they both (supposedly) spent much of their time talking to the higher powers. Maybe it would be better not to ask who Jesus was, but who he wasn't. The reality is that nobody knows either way. What we do supposedly know about Jesus is what's in the Bible and the book of Mormon (if your beliefs lead you to reading that). It's been so long since they were first written, and even then the stories had been around for a long time, so there is very little chance of any of them being accurate by any means. Add to that the fact that the writings have been translated literally hundreds of times into many different languages for many different groups with many different ways of looking at even a short passage... Well, you get the idea. It's simply impossible to know Jesus as a person. Every one of us does have a different interpretation of what we -think- he -could- have been like, though. I personally hope that each person that replies takes the time to honestly think about the question, though, and does not simply spit out what has been handed down for generations. But that's just me.

warabi	30 Dec 2002
Nice post! Sorry if I wasn't too clear on the question. What I mean by asking "Who was Jesus" I really mean more along the terms of "What is Jesus to You?". Please excuse my poor use of English. Also excuse the lack of my own opinion. I typed the question out and completely forgot to offer my own opinion (whoops!). As for me "spitting" the bible (I really like that sentance by the way ^_^), the reason I quoted the bible with those simple questions was to get people to think about it and what he was to them, for one cannot truly form and opinion about someone from the past unless they read about others opinions and records about that person or, in the case of autobiographies, the person's thoughts on himself. Because, as you said, It's simply impossible to know Jesus (or anyone else from the past) as a person. If one just says "Jesus was a good man/bad man/just a man" just because he "thought" about it probably means he's just regurgitating what someone else taught him without actually studying and searching for himself. And since, as you noted, there are very few books on Jesus (at least very few that are the "origins" as most Jesus books are based on the bible or the book of mormon, as you also stated) I chose to quote the bible because that is where most opinions on the man are formed. As for the "exact book, chapter, and verses" I believe I typed in my first post that you don't have to quote the bible when giving your opinion, but if you are using a direct quote from the bible you probably have one in front of you yourself and it wouldn't hurt to type out where to find it for others to quickly look it up. It also helps with "interpretations". If you look up the quotes I presented and then read the words that come before and after the passages you will see that some of these quotes are not exactly a simple "yes or no". Quotes normally never tell the whole story and it is hard to form an opinion on a single passage. For instance Matthew 7:1-2 can possibly be loosly interpreted as "treat others AS they have treated you" and in Matthew 22:18 Jesus was mearly defending himself against people who were out to trick him. I am sorry if you think that I have not really thought about this topic, but that is, of course, your own opinion, and I respect that. This is getting a little long, so I will post my own opinion in the next post. Thank you again, Cricket. I am always glad to hear the opinions of others!

warabi	30 Dec 2002
As for my opinion on Jesus, I really don't have one. If you are wondering why I started this topic, it is because I do not ask questions that I already have a solid belief on because then I would have no reason to ask. I love to hear others opinions on things I do not have opinions on because it helps me to grow personally, whether I am enlightened by what one has to say or just to broaden my understanding of how much each individual person thinks differenly. So what can I personally say about what Jesus is to me? I believe he was a man. A very smart man. Do I think he was CHOSEN by god? No. But, then again, my concept of "god" is very abstract. To me Jesus was a human with the well developed skill of manipulation (not in the bad sense). This is how I perceive him from how I read the bible, but , of course, the bible is man made (Of course, that goes against christian views but I mean not to offend) and the opinions contain within are more likely than not biased. Anyway, that's how I think.

Trish	31 Dec 2002
I think Jesus was a prophet, a theologian, and a radical. He was a threat to both the Romans in the area as well as the Hebrew leaders, and that is why he was condemned to die. Do I believe he died for me and/or my sins? I don't really think so. He was a man. A man with big ideas and his own form of ministry. Do I believe he was the Son of God? Yes he was, in the same sense that we all are the "children" of the creative entity (whatever you may call it). I do not think he was divinely conceived -- I believe Joseph was his father, and Mary was his mother. If you're interested, I believe http://www.beliefnet.com still has something up about something they did with ABC a few years back, called "The Search For Jesus". It was a very interesting program. ;)

Kiama	01 Jan 2003
Even though I am Pagan, I have a huge affinity with Jesus andmost of his teachings... To me, he represents a mystic on the path towards perfection and union with God. (You'll see why I think he was a mystic in the thread about 'Did Jesus Ever Sin'.) Being a budding mystic myself, I feel very close to the mystics who have come before me... Kiama

Natalya	01 Jan 2003
I believe that he was the son of God but not God himself. He was a great orator and knew had his way with people. He was a modest and caring man and I believe he was able to do miracles as the bible says, with the help of God of course :)

jlbvt	01 Jan 2003
I believe that Jesus was a visionary man, wise and devoted to social equality. I don't care to speculate as to whether he was sent with a purpose from "God" but he knew wat he wanted to happen, and he made that happen. At the very least, he is a great historical figure and a good role model. The bibles most people have (KJV) are skewed mistranslations. I have a great copy of the old testament retranslated from the original hebrew, and there are lots of notable differences. Like instead of " thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain, Mine reads "do not swear falsly by the Lord". You can take that a lot of ways. Another part I love is in Malachi, where God tells the people, "I will strew dung upon their faces" I guess God was a pretty cool guy after all! That line always cracks me up! lol. ;)

meatbox666	02 Jan 2003
I believe Jesus is the son of God. How Jesus did all of those things and how he and the Holy Ghost and the Father are one beats me. He (Jesus) said that his thoughts are not our thoughts but he did say that He is the Way the truth and the light and no one commeths to the father but through him. He also said if you confess with thy mouth that he is the son of the Father then you are saved. Well, let me do this right now. " I believe that Jesus is the Son of the one true living God". Phew. Well I am covered now and that didn't even hurt lol, and it didn't cost me anything either. I better cover my azz just incase the Bible is all True because those who don't confess will be under damnation. LOL. well NOT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! But I am bored now so I think I'll go play with my Tarot deck. Jesus, you have to keep me busy because if you don't I'll stray into the abyss of occultism but I'll be sure to ask for forgiveness in you name of course.

napaea	02 Jan 2003
just wanted to add to cricket's thoughts on the Bible: the translations also changed due to political rule and what information leaders wanted changed. sad, but so many 'religious leaders" have skewed the bible for their own purposes. nice post cricket onward... i used to believe that jesus was the son of god, etc etc, when i was a "thumper" (bible thumper, that is) now i see it as others here have stated. jesus was ahead of his time. he believed that the universe and world are as we believe and perceive and state them to be. how did he "walk on water"? he understood that matter is just molecules, and so is he, and he and the water became one, i guess. i think he was a man that stood out among others; his ideals were high, his attitude was contrary, his actions were fearless, his understanding great. he was a hippy! i don't believe he is the only way to god, or to happiness. i've had the whole christian-he-is-the-only-way thing and i'm happier than ever without it. but i do believe that he is A way to god. i believe people can honestly improve their lives by following him, just as they can by following their own intuition and wisdom. that's all for me! interesting discussion, i hope more people jump in!

warabi	03 Jan 2003
Thank you for the link Trish! I will check it out! Also thanks to everyone who spent the time to answer this question. I am learning quite a bit.

Osher	24 Jan 2003
Interesting this post, as a few weeks ago they found a burial casket that could have come from his brother. OK, the boring bit is that Jesus was called 'teacher', which is translated as Rabbi. Which is fine, as that is what Rabbi means. The question is, was Jesus (or Yeshu, as I believe it should be prounced, I'd have to read the original to confirm) a son of God. Well, in the Jewish faith God cannot be split. You cannot divide him. QED, we are parts of God, but not a seperate part, therefore there cannot have been a unique son. This is a matter for the theologians to discuss. However, he was a good man, that much is beyond dispute. Personally, if in 2000 years time people remembered me, and said I was a good man, I'd die happy. Actually, if you read the Bible, all the prophets had human failings, even the great Moses (Moshe) suffered from being shy and fearful. What if Jesus was the last of the great prophets and had human failing too, so that when one of his followers called him the son of God, he was flattered, and found it hard to say no? After that, how could then deny it (even though he did at first)? Just an idea anyway. Oh to add to mistranslations: When the Bible says 'eye for an eye' it does not mean that if someone punches you, you can punch them. It means that if someone punches you, you can get compensation equal to the value of the punch. Let's face it. If someone chops off your leg, you chopping their leg will not buy you a wheelchair, or hospital care.

The Who was Jesus? thread was originally posted on 30 Dec 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.