Karma

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Jan 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

warabi	03 Jan 2003
After searching around the forum for any posts on the topic of karma, and not really finding any, I thought I would start one up for those who are interested. Note that I am not an "expert" on karma, but who really is? Also take note that I am not the best english speaker. Please feel free to reply so we can discuss this topic. It would be fun to learn what other people think ^_^. On the subject of karma there are three basic things to know: Karma: The Posistive and Negitive energies that one accumilates during their past and current lifetimes. In every action you do, whether intended or not, good or bad, you get karma to go with it. Once karma is recieved it keeps growing until it is purified. It can be purified in a few ways, such as chanting to Vajrasattavi(once again, I do not know the english way to spell this), meditating on nothingness, or chanting the names of the other buddahs. Negitive karma cannot be purified by doing good actions. Dharma: This is the good behavior, the rules which dictates whether an action recieves positive karma. Doing good actions does not get rid of negative karma, but it helps you along the path to Moksha. Moksha: This is the release from Karma. One can get release by following Dharma and purifying their negitive karma. Once one has obtained Moksha they are free from the reincarnation cycle. This is the ultimate goal of practicing buddhists. Please add any thoughts you have on this topic. I am eager to learn ^_^!

warabi	04 Jan 2003
Here are the correct english spellings for some of the words above. I apoligize that they were not correct before, but I had to guess because they were not in my dictionary ^_^. Darma = Dharma Mocsha = Moksha Vajarasatabi = Vajrasattavi Sorry again!

JC	04 Jan 2003
My problem with karma - I'm from the West - is that I don't think Hinduism believes in a personal soul. mYunderstanding of it is like this: Each individual is a vessel for a small part of Brahma. However, the vessels act independently of these small parts of God. Whatever the vessel does can sweeten or sour what it contains. At the end of a life, the vessel is broken and the piece of God is given to a new vessel to carry - not the same vessel (person) in a new form. this is just my understanding and I could be wrong. I could be disproven by someone raised in Hindiusm such as yourself.

warabi	04 Jan 2003
Actually, believe it or not, I was raised in a "psudo-christian" family who believes in god, doesn't actually worship him (I'm not a christian however) which makes up for only 1% of the population. It is a primarily Buddhist country, with Shintoism also of course ^_^. I should also mention that I was speaking from a buddhist point of view. You are correct in what you say about Hinduism though, and it is VERY similar to Buddhism in that way. In fact there are some places that mix the two together. I believe that the island called Suri Lanka (SP?) is well known for doing that if you had further interest in the merging of the two religions. As for it being a personal soul, your idea is correct and incorrect at the same time (if such a thing is possible). It is true that we all come from the same source, whether you call that source energy, God, Brahma, Oneness, etc. But our souls are personal! When one broke off from the source it is no longer the source (I will call it God from this point because you refer to it as such) itself, but a different thing. If our souls were not personal then we would still be the God. It is true, however, that buddhists strive to return to the God and, at that time, will give up their personal to become one with the God again, but you remain personal until that happens. About it not being the same vessel, you are correct. Each soul is given a body (vessel as you put it) and when it dies there is a new body given, but the soul is the same! Yes, the soul becomes a different person, but it retains all the karma it recieved from it's life in the past body and it is reflected in the new body he/she was given. Thank you for replying to this topic. I am always interested in hearing the opinions of others! I hope that helps with your understanding of karma a bit better ^_^.

JC	05 Jan 2003
Yes, there are such things as ideas that are both correct and incorrect. And even though you may not be Hindu, you obviously know more about this than I do. Growing up in a mostly Buddhist country gives you a leg up on me. Also, I did not mean to suggest that converts to Buddhism or Hinduism do not have better qualified opinions than I do. They do, because they have studied those religions more than I have. The reason I specifically mentioned people who were raised in Hinduism is because I have heard the Western interpretaion of Karma many times and was interested in how it would be explained from a non-Western standpoint. You've given me something to think about.

lupo138	05 Jan 2003
karma is the result of being attracted to something. It is the boundaries that we weave ourselves. it is not the law of revenge, it is just some sort of mirror, because we form ourselves out of the energy of our intentions and this sort of energy attracts similar energy. (birds of a feather flock together)

warabi	05 Jan 2003
I believe that all people have equal and qualified opinions, and that includes you. Just because I grew up around a large buddhist community and once actually practiced it (My ideas have evolved much since then) doesn't mean my word is the final word. There are MANY different opinions of karma, even among buddhists (though there are the base beliefs that really do not change). A supposed "unqualified" opinion can sometimes be even more knowledgable than all the experts and texts in the world! That is how we grow, by questioning our beliefs, religious or social, and gathering information from our incounters with others. In fact, if it was not for "unqualified" opinions, our religious structures would never evolve. I would love to hear about the "western interpretation" if you would like to share it with me ^_^. I am always happy to learn about how other cultures think. I love to learn!

magipixie	05 Jan 2003
A friend and I were discussing this last night because in the Tarot deck I use, the Justice card is renamed Karma. That seems pretty appropriate to me, if you don't stick too close to the more Western idea of Justice meaning some form of legal punishment or revenge. I don't really ascribe to any particular religion except my own of course;) and my idea of Karma as best as I can describe is this. On our path through life we commit many actions (deeds, words, etc.). Each of these is a step taken and the enery of that word or deed is left permanently behind. Each of these continues to reverberate and affect people and things, as well as leaving a psychic trace on the person commiting the deed. At the end of your life these deeds are weighed, and the idea is to come up with more good than bad. This largely determines how your 'soul' comes back. I also believe that some deeds are so significant that it may take more than one lifetime for them to bear fruit, thus a sort of karmic carryover. I suppose this is very simplified, and could easily be argued against, but it's a system that works for me and always ensures that my actions are well thought out before I commit them, becouse none of them can be left behind. I love this topic, thanks for starting it.....it's so much fun to hear other peoples beliefs. Blessed Be, Pixie

lupo138	05 Jan 2003
no, I see what you mean with that and agree - but you could see The World as well as karma, as it is samsara ;) so there are many possible relations...

magipixie	05 Jan 2003
I don't know what samsara is, my friend says she thinks it means either your path in life or something to do with nonviolence, although would'nt it be great if everyone's path was nonviolent;) Blessed Be, Pixie

lupo138	06 Jan 2003
samsara is all the stuff in the world that attracts the mind of the seeker and is still mere illusion: wealth, power, etc etc It is somehow equivalent to the mediaeval "vanitas"

magipixie	06 Jan 2003
oh, thanks for the explanation, and if you don't mind, where does the word come from. You seem to be really knowledgable in this area so I thought I would ask :) Blessed Be, pixie

lupo138	06 Jan 2003
thank you but in fact my knowledge is very little. As far as I do know samsara is a hindu as well as budhist term and Sanskrit. (It could be Pakrit as well - I am not too sure about that)

warabi	06 Jan 2003
Hello lupo136 and Magpixie ^_^. To lupo136. I read your description od karma and I must say you are much better with words that I am ^_^. I must add something to your description of what is Samsara though. I am not familiar with the word "vanitas" and it is not in my dictionary, so it may be we are saying the same thing and, if so, I apoligise. Samsara is not just temptations such as wealth and power. It is the karmic cycle itself. Birth, death and rebirth. It includes things which are illusion, as you put it, but it is a little moire than that. It is Samsara which buddhists try to free themselves from in order to become one with the source/god. To magpixie, I myself also do not know where the word's origin comes from, so I apoligize for not knowing the answer to your question. The terminology used when defining karma changes between different countires so it is hard to pinpoint, and I mostly use the Japanese terminology. Note that the terms I have typed so far have been a close to what is considered "traditional" words, or at least as close as I could find, and not the Japanese versions. Thank you both for adding your comments ^_^!

DarkElectric	06 Jan 2003
Hello everyone :) I am familiar with karma as the result of the causes one makes in one's life. I studied Nichiren Buddhism(A Japanese sect) for several years, and as it was explained to me, one can expiate negative karma by sincere chanting of, in our case, specific portions of the "Lotus" sutra. Theoretically, it isn't like Christianity, where one's good works erase one's evil deeds. It's more like everything you do has karmic value, so to speak. If you make good causes, you incur good karma. If you make bad causes, you incur negative karma. Negative karma tends to attract less fortunate circumstances, whereas good karma attracts good fortune. It's all about cause and effect. That's what I was taught about it, anyway. And, that one can change one's karma in this lifetime to a significant degree, through sincere chanting, combined with correct causes, thus preventing negative karma from building up. I hope I didn't confuse anyone. English is my primary language, but I don't think I speak it well at all!

warabi	06 Jan 2003
Hello DarkElectric ^_^. I haven't heard of the Nichiren sect and I would be very happy to hear of it as there are many different sects within Japan alone, or maybe I have, just under a different name. What part of Japan is it primarily practiced? Also, thank you for making my points on karma a little more clear. You may not think much of your english skill, but you definatly have a better way of wording things than someone like me who has to have 3 language books and 5 dictionarys in fron of him to post ^_^. So, the Nichiren sect uses only a few specific passages of the lotus sutra to purify? Very interesting! May I ask, which part of which version of the lotus sutra (there are several versions)? I would like to note also that there are other sects which use several sutras to purify, like the one to Vajrasattavi (DarkElectic, you would probably know Vajrasattavi as Kongosatta which is the Japanese name) in both short version and long version.

lupo138	07 Jan 2003
I agree with DarkElectric although my (very small) buddhist background derives rather from Theravada (sort of classical indian branch) than Japanese Buddhism. @warabi: "vanitas" means vanity in Latin in the meaning of "Bonfire of Vanities" a book written by Tom Wolfe. Vanitas was a quite common expression in mediaeval, well let´s say "mysticism".

lupo138	14 Jan 2003
I have to correct myself: samsara is indeed rather rebirth and so on, as warabi pointed out. What I named samsara would be rather referred to as "maya".

The Karma thread was originally posted on 03 Jan 2003 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.