Religion or faith?...

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 26 Jan 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Ramses	26 Jan 2003
Hey folks... How are you?...Hope youīre all fine!!! Would you say you have a religion or just faith??? I mean, Do you follow a religion, really, or do you follow your faith, using a religion as means for that??? And, if you say you follow a certain religion, would you say you follow everything said by its rulling institution or the idea this religion supposedly offers??? I, personally, have no religion, but I like reading and studying about all of them...I just canīt believe in any institution...Whenever I think of the Catholic church, I remember the Inquisition...Whenever I think of the Muslim religion, I remember the wars in the Middle-East... I donīt wanna say the religion is bad (I think it has a lot of good things to give), but I donīt believe in the people controlling the institutions behind every religion... I also donīt mean that everyone involved in the religious institutions are bad, but... Well, what do you have to say???

Ramses	26 Jan 2003
sorry for the polemic topic...I didnīt mean any disrespect for any system of faith, religion, etc... I hope you can all understand what I meant... Thanks for your attention...

warabi	26 Jan 2003
I am one of those who believes what my heart says is right ^_^. I used to follow the buddhist religion, and even tried christianity for a few months, but decided that I wasn't really either. I don't think that many people follows and believes every thing that the religion is based upon, but that's just my opinion anyway. I think religions are good for helping people to finding what they believe and even though I am not part of an organized religion anymore I have taken many things my religion has taught me in my heart. Please remember that it is not the religion that causes bad things to happen, it is people. I would hope that just because some people have done some things in the name of their religion that you would not explore it because of that reason. Religion institutions can be a beautiful thing when practiced with many good people ^_^.

Liliana	26 Jan 2003
I follow my faith, sometimes I downright HATE half my religion (the Christian half) I am an eclectic, whose primary paths follow a combination of Christian and Wicca beliefs. This makes me an outcast from both religions, if I told anyone in them what I truly believe. So Im definately a faith person :THP

Ramses	26 Jan 2003
yeah warabi...thatīs exactly what I meant...people are bad, not the religion....the people behind the religious institutions make the wars, not the religion itself.... not all the people are bad, but sometimes one or two may cause a big time mess... yeah , I agree with both of you, warabi and Liliana....I try to take the best out of each religion to make one of my one, based on my faith....

Red Emma	26 Jan 2003
Neither, actually. I was raised in a strong Christian religion and rebelled against the, to me, ridiculous rules. I discovered that most of the rules were devised to 1) give other people control of my life, and 2) to align my loyalty to that group of people so I could distance myself from "the others." The others being those poor benighted souls who didn't have enough smarts to join My Group. After a lot of searching I find myself at home as an eclectic pagan. I prefer not to become Wiccan, or any other group I know about because even they have their rules. The thing is, once I left organized religion I found my own connection to The All, The Spirit -- whatever your choice of Name is. Because of my background I prefer to think of Her rather than Him. But for all that, unless Spirit wants to create a little family of Spirits, I'm not sure one has to identify a sex when referring to Her/Him. Many pagans cite balance, and I suspect that's a valid concept. However, I guess I will forever and ever...in this life at least...not want to think of Spirit in male terms. Too much destructive patriarchy in my life. I guess that I have faith that Spiriit-Goddess will lead me to a good and fruitful life. As for living a "good" life, I find the pagan "An ye harm none, do as ye will," the base for ethical ethics. So to speak. Goddess Bless, REd Emma

cjtarot	26 Jan 2003
Hi all, I have FAITH. I cosider myself lost and looking in the way of religion (a set rule of worshipping The Almighty) ..this means I have alot to learn and hope to keep it that way.. the day I know everything about my "religion" or "faith" will be a sad day. For now, keep asking questions, its is the only way to learn and find your path. Blessings to all, CJ

lunalafey	26 Jan 2003
There are quite a few simularities in all religions, based on good morals.....I do not care for organised religions for alot of the same reasons as others here. I am FULLY a faith person. I was asked a long time ago by a 'christian' what my religion was, I told him I had my own. It was then that he wanted to pray for me....AH! I follow my heart. Because of my upbringing I was able to develope my own sense of spirituallity and I am very content with it.

Ramses	27 Jan 2003
I was reading an introductory book about Yoga (which I didn't know that meant the same as religion, from the latin "re-ligare", re-connect)...and it said that all religions in the world are basically the same...they all aim the re-connection of our souls with God...they only vary on the ways for reaching that common objective... so, if they are all the same (which I pretty much agree), then they may all be right...what makes a religion better or worse is the ammount of faith we put in it, and the way we use it to grow (and help others grow too)...

patter	28 Jan 2003
I am a life-long atheist. Of course I still have beleifs/ethics but without a god involved I wouldn't call them a 'faith'.

Baneemy	29 Jan 2003
Faith is always a gamble. Whenever possible, I try to keep open questions open and avoid drawing unwarranted conclusions. -Baneemy

sunflowr	24 Feb 2003
It's not the religion itself.. it's the people. I myself am not of any organized religion. I would like to study Christianity and see how I feel about it all.. I know I wont agree with it a whole lot but there are some basic truths that really speak to me. I love some of the Christian Children's programming.. like on TBN station. They mostly teach the child the basic truths.. and not all the later BS that can come with it.. which is mostly misinterpretations and prejudces and judgements by people and NOT Jesus. So.. I want to study some, from a pure, childlike standpoint. But, besides that, I consider myself pretty eclectic. I take what I believe in, that speaks to me and heals my soul, and it becomes a "melting pot" of sorts. :) I would love to meet Christians who are on this board.. if that is possible? I mean do Christians and tarot cards even mix? I always hear how tarot and divination are "tools of the devil". I dont buy into that. I believe that, as long as a tool is used in a positive way and it helps heal you, God can speak to you thru that just as well as any other medium. The main thing is to listen to Spirit and, whatever way you choose Spirit to speak to you, is fine.

cheekyminx	25 Feb 2003
Im very open minded, but I don't follow any religion. If I were to say I did, it would be Spiritualism. Faith v's religion? Very interesting topic, but also one to cause a few problems....politics & religion just don't mix & I seldomly discuss these two issues :) I have my opinions, but they are mine & for me to keep a secret ;)

jema	25 Feb 2003
i often use the word religion and i don't think it is a negative word. for me religion is faith but with a system to it, to follow a tradition. i find that i benefit from structure and routine and when i do my daily rituals and meditations i am feeling better. now, i been in a cult and know just how destructive some religions can be. but for me it is important to not equate all the bad things with religion and all the good things with spirituality and faith. that is just too simplified.

Silverlotus	25 Feb 2003
I see faith as my personal beliefs, and religion as the larger stucture they hang in. My faith is my own, with no title to describe it. It is made up of my morals, ethics, personality, feelings about different things in the worlds, my view of the diety, and other things. My religion is Wicca. It fits with my faith, not the other way around. I agree with some of the other comments in this thread. It's not religions that are bad, it's the people that use and twist those religions for personal gain that are bad. lol! For some reason I compare it to how I feel about songs and bands. I don't generally like a band, I just like songs. Well, to me your religion doesn't matter, it's the kind of person you are that is important.

Inana	26 Feb 2003
I dont have faith. I have my beliefs about life and etics. And i follow them. But since i thing beliefs have to evolve to fit your different moments in life and to get a more precis and good ideas (seeking the truth or the most close to it). Faith is not enough flexible to do it. But a bit amount of faith could be ok for people if its not closing the mind to new ideas. About religions... i strongly dislike it. Sometimes in religions you can find some knowledge or good codes of ethics and morals. But religions are very unflexible, and trend to control people's thoughts and minds. Specially the most stablished religions like islam, christianity and judaism. I saw them like a control tool, and that's the origin religions had: they serve to the people who was having the power, and still do today. And i can forget the things that have been made in name of religions... So hate them. But like all things, if you find something inspirating in it and don't take them too seriously, could help to construct your own beliefs sistem.

Laurel	26 Feb 2003
I have faith, or as I call it "spirituality". I don't have religion, at this time. But I'm strongly considering returning to the Unitarian Universalist church and perhaps, when my daughter is 18 in 6ish years.... going to seminary, which was my original plan following college. So why on earth would someone without religion become a minister? It does sound a lot like someone who's celibate becoming a hooker, doesn't it? :P And yet.... I feel called. Which is scary in itself. ~LAS

Moongold	26 Feb 2003
Religions are systems of belief but they are also much more. They offer community to people as well which is really important. Community can be the sharing of support, love and understanding which are all spiritual values. And I think that in existing religions people can still retain a lot of independence of mind and spirit. The Catholic Church has been full of such souls throughout its history, despite the fact that on occasion Church authorities have come down heavily on indviduals. Churches are human and therefore political institutions as well, and some people with authority don't behave well in them. The authority goes to their heads and they take on roles which they really don't have spiritual justification for. Many Catholic "saints" had difficulty with Church authorities at some stage or other. By the by! I know some remarkable people who are in Churches/religions because they have faith and want to share that in community. They don't don't have to subscribe to every aspect of the particular faith. I believe that God values the independent soul. We were given minds to think with, not to be doormats. And surely it is how we act towards one another that is important, not whether we fully believe in the Virgin Birth or some other relatively minor aspect of faith. Moongold

ReveurPoetique	26 Feb 2003
I am wiccan.. tho i like to think of the way I practice (since alot of the ideas are just that.. ideas.. and room is left for interpretation) as a type I call it Addism lol.. I use alot of my intuistion(sp?) and decide certain things for myself rather than looking for a book lol

Athara	26 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Moongold I believe that God values the independent soul. We were given minds to think with, not to be doormats. And surely it is how we act towards one another that is important, not whether we fully believe in the Virgin Birth or some other relatively minor aspect of faith. Moongold I totally agree with that. I believe in God, and I've felt His presence when I was in need. But still my main faith is in Spiritualism. I do not believe that God forbids that. I strongly dislike people who try to force their faith on you. I've read 2 different stories on this forum where people were standing at the New Age section in a bookstore and got a Bible pushed in their hands by a complete stranger with the words: 'Try this, you need it' (or something along that line). That's just wrong in my eyes. What about if we put a Tarot deck in their hands and said 'Try this'... We might get sued! Well, I went a little off-topic, but so far my opinion... Athara

Moongold	26 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Laurel So why on earth would someone without religion become a minister? It does sound a lot like someone who's celibate becoming a hooker, doesn't it? :P And yet.... I feel called. Which is scary in itself. Not at all! Does it depend on how you understand religion? Some organized religions have a wide tolerance for independence. The Uniting Church here does, for example, and there are some other more esoteric Churches. Another dimension to this is how you understand ministry. I'm not sure about the US but there is something called the lay ministry in some religions. And you can get a degree in Theology and go on to become a pastoral worker. I am attracted to some religious communities where people live together, sharing resources and skills and are very welcoming to all. Moongold

RedWood	26 Feb 2003
To be honest..I did not read every reply. In every religion there is truth and goodness. It is up to us (as beings) To find the truth and goodness and make it a whole. basically: Every religion or faith has some truth to it. Just have to dig deep and go through the crud to find it! Then if and when we find each truth. That will build a whole understanding. I personally do not like religion as an organization. but there are many goods that come from them .. Even if it is a food drive, volunteering etc...

The Religion or faith?... thread was originally posted on 26 Jan 2003 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.