Spiritual Search and Middle Age?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 22 Feb 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Silverlotus	22 Feb 2003
In the past year and a half or so, I've read several books about the modern search for spirituality. Each book assumed the reader was middle aged. One book, who's title I have forgotten, went so far as to say that younger people can't understand the spiritual search. Being "only" 25, I was rather annoyed at such a statement. I feel I am able to understand the search for spirituality. I think that when you are capable of realizing that you need to set out on this search, you have reached an age where you can understand what you are doing. I don't believe there is a mystical age, 35 being the one most often mentioned in the books, where spiritual matters suddenly become clear. I know there are some religions, Judaism and Islam off the top of my head, that reserve advanced religious study for people who have reached middle age. And I can in a way understand the reasoning. There may be people who aren't able to concentrate or take religious study seriously at a young age. But I take exception to authors who state that younger people can't understand. Maybe I'm just odd. Or maybe I have reached middle age and I just don't know it yet. ;) Do other people feel that you must have reached 35+ to truly understand the spiritual search?

Mimers	22 Feb 2003
Well, I am 36 and I must say that I don't think that you HAVE to be any age to be ready to understand things better. Every one is different. I will add however, and I am sure everyone has heard this, that as you get older you look back and see things at a very different angle. It is also a very natural time in a typical life for spirituality to become more important. Notice I said MORE important. Spirituality has always been important for me, but honestly, when I was in my 20's, getting through college, picking the right pre school, finding a good job, saving for a house,etc.... Too busy for spiritual exploring. but again this is my life. This isn't everyone's. I am much more settled now and have the time to explore. I really dont think for me that it had anything to do with my capability or lack of them, but just the natural course of life that has made it occur in my 30's. I do believe generally speaking that as we grow older, we also grow wiser than WE once were. I don't think that means that I am wiser than everyone who is 35 and under. I also think I am wiser than a lot of people 2x my age. There, have I confused you more? :)

zorya	22 Feb 2003
spirituality can be a lifelong journey. i was and know many others who have been searching since we were children! there certainly is an advantage to starting early. in the long run, you have more time to try more things and explore options. of course you can understand the search! we all go through our lives with different experiences. some experiences lead to better understanding of some things than others. while being older does mean you've had more 'experiences' to learn from than you did when you were younger, some people have had huge learning experiences at a very young age. as mimers said, often people don't begin to search until 'middle age' because that is when they have time. kids older or grown up, job more likely to be steady or they've retired. they've already found a mate or realize you don't really need one for happiness. so thoughts turn to spirituality. older people usually have more time to commit to their 'searches'. ...and wisdom does help. things you understood when younger, often click in a deeper way when older. hopefully i'll understand my search even better at 62 than i do now, at 42, lol.

Laurel	22 Feb 2003
I have to agree with Zorya about being on a spiritual search since I was very young. Here are some books I think are great to offer young people who show a curiousity about spiritual matters. *Very Young* Jonathan Livingston Seagull The Little Prince Velveteen Rabbit Black Beauty *Young* Simple Ways To Pray For Healing by the Linn Family Notes To My Children- A Simplified Metaphysics by Ken Carey The Chronicles of Narnia Judy Blume books *Going past that into the late teens early twenties?* Dharma Bums by Kerouac Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance I and Thou by Martin Buber Your God is Too Small by JB Philips the romantic era poets (Goethe, Shelley, etc) Island by Aldous Huxley Illuminata by Marianne Williamson anything written by Thomas Moore ~LAS

firemaiden	22 Feb 2003
Well, I certainly hope that "middle-aged" means a GOOD DEAL OLDER than 35. I am 41, and am still a BABY. (Although I did buy a red dress when I turned 40...hmmm) When I was 19 I couldn't get my hands on enough spiritual books. Or, philosophical books. I read Ernst Beckers Denial of Death as though it were a thriller. I read Foucault and Campbell, and everything by Erich Fromm as if they were Nancy Drew mysteries. All in one fell swoop, like that. Ravenous. Between then and now, my interest dried up, too busy getting degrees, and acquiring skills, and working, etc... Now the thirst has returned! Don't you hate generalizations? edited to add: Great reading list Laurel! Really really great. Hits the spot. Black Beauty was a TREASURE. And what about Louisa May Alcott stuff? Esp. Little Women. I remember Martin Buber, that was a great one! Also Alan Watts, of course.

Red Emma	22 Feb 2003
When is middle age? Hard to tell. I considered myself middle aged until I finished 69...when 70 rolled around I had to admit I finally was a senior. As for spiritual exploration I didn't realize that as I attended the church of my forebears, then one of my own choice, that I was especially spiritual. I wondered sometimes why I bothered, but now I know some contact with the sacred was important to me. About 10 or 15 years ago I embarked on the Pagan path, and began to read everything I could get my hands on. In my case, it seemed as if everything was written for family types, just pre-middle aged. But then I've not read the great philosophers, and probably won't. I greatly admire those who do, but I don't seem to have the patience for it. It is frustrating to keep reading stuff written for a stereo-typical audience. I try to take what I need and forget the rest of it. Best wishes and good reading, Red Emma

Athara	22 Feb 2003
I don't believe you have to be middle-aged to begin your search for spirituality. I'm 17, turning 18 in two weeks and have been on my spiritual search for 4 years now. I do believe that I'm mentally older than some 30-something-years old people. I've been through a lot (and with that I mean: a LOT) in my life, which made me grow up too fast. I think that the greatest problem is strength. Strength is needed for this search. Strength which is, in my opinion, formed by experience. So that might be the reason why some younger people might not be ready for this. And it might be the reason that I, and many younglings with me, *are* ready for it, because they have built up strength (too) young. The authors of those books saying you have to be middle-aged for that search probably have the opinion that no youngling can have that strength. Maybe they didn't have it when they were young. Maybe they don't remember. It's true that I'm just a 'beginner'. But I'm just the same beginner as a 39-year-old who started searching at age 35. Well, maybe not the same, but you get the point... Well, so far my humble opinion. Greetings, Athara

wavebreaker	22 Feb 2003
35 is middle aged?? AAAGH!!! :eek: ;) Seriously though: I don't think age is important in spiritual search. Like with many things: some people start young, others are late starters, some people may never get to that point. I think the most important thing is that you are ready for it, and that's different for everyone. What they probably mean is that a lot of people follow the same "pattern" in life: in your teens school is the most important thing, in your twenties it's college and finding a job, early thirties it's starting a family etc. A lot of people are so busy with these more practical things that there's no room for spirituality, so that doesn't come until after 35 or so. But that's just a generalisation. People are individuals and everyone has their own path in life. And one path is not better than the other. Because you get it the other way around as well. I'm one of those "late starters" and then you get people look down on you because they were "already heavily involved in spirituality when they were 10". Fine, but that doesn't make them better either... ;) Edited to add: I wasn't referring to anyone here when I wrote that last paragraph, but to a friend who always does that to me!

zorya	22 Feb 2003
tarotlady, if my post in any way made you feel that i was looking down on anyone who started their spiritual search at a 'later' age, than i sincerely and humbly apologize and will delete it at once. that is far from the way i feel about it. there are many who in three months 'get' what it took me decades to understand. i probably started searching earlier because it takes that long for me to 'learn' anything.

RAVENAL	22 Feb 2003
I believe we choose to incarnate on Earth...and I also believe the Earth life we experience is all about the search to rejoin with source...we remember on some level the true completeness of that oneness and are always searching for that divine reunion...in comming to Earth to experience separation we choose to learn many lessons and have many experiences...all are paths back to the one...which is the all that is... and nothing...no-thing...so for me and for everyone else alive it's all a spiritual search...chosen even before we are born...and I believe we may choose to make that journey again and again...but are never forced and never here or anywhere for punishment but only to experience and grow...so age has no bearing as we are all eternal...and always searching...I've looked deep inside and that's what I see...and as a student of Philosophy and Anthropology and Art...and Life...HA...just to name a few...I can see it all around me too...

jmd	22 Feb 2003
The spiritual quest is, in my opinion, ongoing. The forms it may take, however, will have both individual differences and some common factors. Individual differences undoubtedly results from our own unique essence, the common traits from the developmental phase the incarnation is going through. If one, as an example, looks at Parceval/Parzival, the individual needs to have gained life experience before a certain kind of maturity can naturally emerge. Of course some who are twenty years younger than others may have greater insights into a variety of areas than the older - but for that individual, a certain 'turn' or inward travel will occur from around middle age which, prior to, would have had a more outward orientation (even meditative practice takes on new shades). These are the differences which are often implied at the inner level. From a more mundane perspective, there is also the increased time and space created after one's children move out of home, and one's financial state (hopefully) stabilises. I realise I'm also but paraphrasing some of the comments made.

wavebreaker	22 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by zorya tarotlady, if my post in any way made you feel that i was looking down on anyone who started their spiritual search at a 'later' age, than i sincerely and humbly apologize and will delete it at once. that is far from the way i feel about it. Oh please, don't get me wrong, I wasn't referring to anyone posting here! It was just a general remark. Actually, it's not something I've encountered here on Aeclectic, more in other places. Sorry for being so unclear!

Silverlotus	22 Feb 2003
There are some very wondeful points being made here. As Athara said, strength is very important for a spiritual search. In wonder if people who feel the call all experience some sort of crisis or defining event, young or old. A few people have also raised the point of "older" people being more "established" or what-have-you, and having more time to embark on a spiritual search. I don't work, and have been given much freedom and understand from those I love when it comes to what I study. I think that helps a great deal. I wonder if my search will slow down when I decide to return to work. I hope no one took offence to me saying 35 was middle aged. I certinally don't believe it, but many of the authors I have read sure seem to. :) I think middle age is more a state of mind then a number.

WolfSpirit	23 Feb 2003
I was young when I was very interested in spiritual things and philospohy, I think I even got too intense with not enough interest in the outside world. And then I got a philosophy teacher (it was only one or two hours a week for one semester) who tried to teach us a system I did not like at all (can't remember it well, but it was sad and determenistic), that made me turn away from spirituality for a long time and I started to have other interests. I knew people who were interested in eastern philosophies and though I know it worked for them, I could never really connect with it. It was always a different culture for me. It was only last year (and I'm now middle-ageish ;)) I discovered wicca and paganism and although I will not call me a wiccan I found a lot in that I really love and that got me going again and keeps bringing me new things to study all the time. Last year was also the time I decided to make other changes in my life, and I now know last year the Hierophant was my personal card. For me personally I can say my spiritual search began again at a time I was thinking about a lot of changes in my life.

Moongold	23 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden edited to add: Great reading list Laurel! Really really great. Hits the spot. Black Beauty was a TREASURE. And what about Louisa May Alcott stuff? Esp. Little Women. I remember Martin Buber, that was a great one! Also Alan Watts, of course. I liked the "Magic Faraway Tree","The Enchanted Wood"and the "Wishing Chair" myself. These books really transported me OUT of this world and taught me that the surreal is possible. Magic is real. The spiritual search never ends and no-one has a monopoly on it. Moongold

Aoife	23 Feb 2003
Moongold, Ican't believe the syncronicity.... I've just posted a reply to your reading for me. In it I'm talking about stories I told myself as a child and it was "The Wishing Chair" that started it all off! Eve

cheekyminx	23 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by RAVENAL I believe we choose to incarnate on Earth...and I also believe the Earth life we experience is all about the search to rejoin with source...we remember on some level the true completeness of that oneness and are always searching for that divine reunion...in comming to Earth to experience separation we choose to learn many lessons and have many experiences...all are paths back to the one...which is the all that is... and nothing...no-thing...so for me and for everyone else alive it's all a spiritual search...chosen even before we are born...and I believe we may choose to make that journey again and again...but are never forced and never here or anywhere for punishment but only to experience and grow...so age has no bearing as we are all eternal...and always searching... That's exactly how I feel Ravenal, I could add more light onto the matter, but you've sumed it up well. One's spiritual search starts when they are ready to accept & follow it through. Mine started about 2 years ago....maybe the older a persons soul is the younger they start?? I think it's good that people of all ages start a spiritual search :)

Alissa	23 Feb 2003
You know, if there is one good thing about being out of your teens and early 20's, it's that people no longer "dumb down" to me so damn much. I'm 32 now and I feel like people are just beginning to take me seriously. I don't know if this is even related to your point, but for just about FOREVER I've dealt with patronizing people who have made severe age-ism judgments regarding myself and my capabilities. That carries over to spirituality as well. Couple this with my overachiever's personality and you get 20 years frustration and a serious NEED to make people pay attention and take me seriously, damn it, whether they like it or not. Ignore those who think they know when spirituality "begins." You figure that out yourself, I think. And the rest of the world is just later than you (or me, or many) are in the getting there.

Silverlotus	23 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Alissa You know, if there is one good thing about being out of your teens and early 20's, it's that people no longer "dumb down" to me so damn much. I'm 32 now and I feel like people are just beginning to take me seriously. This is something else I can really relate to, in both spiritual search and in everday life. I have a degree in Computer Science and know a fair little bit, yet everytime I go to a computer store, I always am made to feel as if I know nothing. "Oh, look at that little girl," they must say to themselves, "I'll have to explain everything to her." When I worked at a video game store, customers would tend ask my male coworkers about a game, ignoring me, and then they would nearly always be refered to me, because I knew more about the games then my coworkers. So, what's this got to do with my orginal subject? I think part of the reason I started the thread was to get rid of that feeling I get when I go into a computer store. I sometimes get it when I'm reading a book about spirituality or trying to participate in a forum. "She's so young, what can she know?" Well, a lot. Everyone's life is different, and I may have learned something in my search that you haven't, and you may have learned something I haven't, and together we could learn a lot. Age doesn't matter, sex doesn't matter, it is sincerity that matters. You have all given that little bit of courage I needed, and helped me to realize I am doing the right thing. :) This is such a fabulous, support forum.

ReveurPoetique	23 Feb 2003
I didnt read all the replys so I dunno if you guys switched subjects but I'm 13 and I knew that I wasnt.. how to put it.. in my right place with my religion and spiritual path. I was christian. I didnt actively do anything in it.. It bored me so.. I didnt agree with alot of the "history" of it. I searched for a long time.. and eventually found Wicca... which fits me so well.. Like an old comfy sweater you might ahve found under your bed. ok.. i'm done now.

Alissa	23 Feb 2003
And, Silverlotus, if you have even a little bit of shine to your personality, or are in the slightest way physically attractive, people will dumb you down to an additional degree. But, here's the secret ... use it against them! Do not underestimate the serious mischief potential you have on your side when people are constantly underestimating you. (I've said it before, and I'll say it again). Use it to your advantage, because you're smart enough to do so! ~~ MWAHAHAHAHA...~~ (go sound cue : whip crack)

RAVENAL	23 Feb 2003
I think the very young and the very old can often be our best teachers...they are at opposite sides of the spectrum of age and can have such similar views...their innocence...compassion and empathy allow them to easily put themselves into anothers place and often this brings understanding...and great wisdom...we all have wisdom at our core...but sometimes we don't hear it...or choose to ignore it...or discredit it...I could go on and on here... Ha...but won't...

Mimers	23 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Laurel I have to agree with Zorya about being on a spiritual search since I was very young. Here are some books I think are great to offer young people who show a curiousity about spiritual matters. Laurel Great list! Thank you for sharing that. I will put it to good use with both my children. I have a book that I would like to reccomend The Giving Tree by Sly Silverstein or any of his books. They were my favorites as a little girl. Mimers :)

firemaiden	23 Feb 2003
Nel mezzo del cammin di nostra vita mi ritrovai per una selva oscura ché la diritta via era smarrita. Dante's great spiritual quest in poetry begins with these words: Midway along the path of life... In Dante's own words "midway along the path of life" means age 35.

WolfSpirit	23 Feb 2003
In Dante's time people did not get as old as they do now ;) At least I think so...

firemaiden	23 Feb 2003
Well, Dante was clearly expecting to live to be about 70.. In Dante's time, the childhood mortality rate was so high, that the average life expectancy was very low. However, if you made it past childhood, and were reasonably well to do, you might very well expect to live to be at least 70. Anyhow, he didn't say "middle-aged", only "in the middle of life's path"... Anyhow, I just posted that to show there is some precedent for thinking one begins to turn inward again around age 35. I think however, there is a also very natural period of tremendous philosophical psychological sexual spiritual expansion between say 16-17-ish and 20. I read a book on this once. (Was it not that Martin Buber book?) that divided our life span into different stages of predominantly thinking, or predominently doing. It went back and forth.

Mimers	23 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Alissa And, Silverlotus, if you have even a little bit of shine to your personality, or are in the slightest way physically attractive, people will dumb you down to an additional degree. But, here's the secret ... use it against them! Do not underestimate the serious mischief potential you have on your side when people are constantly underestimating you. (I've said it before, and I'll say it again). Use it to your advantage, because you're smart enough to do so! Well, now, I just have to say that I don't agree with this. I can't say that I have not seen people, or myself for that matter, not taken seriously because of their age. This is not right. Everyone's thoughts and opinions should be taken seriously, because to them they are very real. I also know all too well, being a single person that sometimes your looks are the cause of you being misjudged or mistreated. My advise for this would not be to use it against them though. My advise would be to make it clear in a very professional but curtious manner that this is not appreciated and will not be tolerated. You will be repected more if you do handle it this way and this is experience talking. Just my middle age opinion. ;) Mimers

Umbrae	23 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Silverlotus In the past year and a half or so, I've read several books about the modern search for spirituality. Each book assumed the reader was middle aged. …I don't believe there is a mystical age, 35 being the one most often mentioned in the books, where spiritual matters suddenly become clear….But I take exception to authors who state that younger people can't understand….you must have reached 35+ to truly understand the spiritual search? …and people wonder why I often recommend burning books. There is so much ‘trash’ out there written by poor authors, who write for no other reason than to dupe the public and literally steal your money. My journey began at the age of 17-18 with “The Little Prince”, a book I do not recommend burning. Some folks get the mistaken impression that I am ‘into’ burning all books, when in fact the opposite is true. We should all read…find the authors who write trash and never buy their books. Find the authors who write the truth and heartily recommend their works. The journey begins at different times for different folks, often at some point in life, people look around them and wonder, “Is this it? Is this all? I got married, raised children and this is it?” Ever wonder about mid-life crisis? Seven year itch? Just a soul crying out for attention. Western society urges us to find the answers in the wrong places, so we end up with affairs, fast cars…and some look inward. It’s a hasty generalization, and tells you something about the writer.

ReveurPoetique	23 Feb 2003
ok the older people have gotten ahead of me ;) Could someone explain to me what people just posted.. the 13 year old is now lost.

Red Emma	24 Feb 2003
One frequently is patronized at the other end of the age spectrum. It happens much too often. As an example, recently a man in his late teens, early twenties came to the door one evening to "educate" the populus about one of our local governmental agencies. Put in place about 20 years ago, its mission is to deal with issues which cross traditional boundaries. For instance underground water tables, regional mass transportation and the like. When he mentioned the name, I said I was familliar with it. He looked skeptical and said, "What do YOU know about [agency x!] I told him that I had helped to establish its structure (I was in graduate school at the time) and that kind of thing. "Besides, I pay attention to local government," etc. Then he wanted a donation for its public education program! Guess how much I gave him? $000.00! This kind of thing happens to me much too often. And boy! Do bite back! Red Emma

The Spiritual Search and Middle Age? thread was originally posted on 22 Feb 2003 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.