And now for something completely different: what is LOVE?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 02 Mar 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

firemaiden	02 Mar 2003
Just a small little topic, since we have squared away the question of God once and for all :). What is love? I told my friend, the only way out of the domination/avoiding domination trap in human relationships...is love. But to my friend, the love she envisioned giving seemed like just another trap, something sickening perhaps it felt like giving in, allowing oneself to be swallowed up, subsumed by the ego of the other. Then I realized: Love is not submission. Love is not necessarily even compassion, if that compassion is just a way of giving into a person's sick need to control. Love is a verb: it is something active and creative. I think it may be: -Seeing past the smoke-screens of a person's neurosis and desparation, to their true needs -Finding a way past the smoke screen of lies and masks that they throw in your path without knowing it. -Finding away to reach them where the truth is. -Understanding the deep needs of this truth, and being creative in responding to those needs. -Forging a path through the smokescreen, to be with the person in their truth...

Diana	02 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden Just a small little topic, since we have squared away the question of God once and for all :). What is love? :laugh: Some people say that God is Love. (Okay, just ignore me - I was never really here - I never said anything - I was just clearning my throat.)

firemaiden	02 Mar 2003
<<<<<>>>>> Welcome back!!! I missed you! Yes, my mother told me God is Love, or alternatively, Love is God. Love as God is a God I can Love. I would never ignore you! How about : Love is finding the part of God in a person?

truthsayer	02 Mar 2003
i've always like the Bible verse from Corinthians as the best definition of what love is. you know the one--love is patient, love is kind...love never fails.

Aoife	02 Mar 2003
In professional work with troubled families my colleagues and I have often observed that the opposite of love is not hate but indifference. One of the biggest dilemmas for me is how to deal with the issue of 'loving but not liking'. I think this so often applies in family relationships and maybe for some people in respect of their religious affiliations [altho' i'm not qualified to comment]. There's a clear path for me between 'not liking' and 'indifference' and one I often deliberately take as a defence against anger - I'm thinking now particularly in terms of work colleagues I don't take to but am forced to share 'space' with and extended-family members. That brings me back to the issue of how to reconcile love and anger. I don't have any answers - I've spent too long trying to prevent, circumvent, and hide from my anger. I entirely agree that love is a verb, an activity. Therein lies another problem for me - what to do when you've no energy or heart for activity - when all you want to do hide or sleep? I also feel that love needs to be reciprocal - otherwise it's something else, more akin to devotion perhaps. It doesn't have to be a relationship of 'equals' but there has to be something in it for both parties. I'm struggling to organise my thoughts - sorry if I appear to ramble. Best I go now and consult the dog oracle - he knows much about the subject of love. *lol* Eve

firemaiden	02 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Aoife Best I go now and consult the dog oracle - he knows much about the subject of love. *lol* Truer words were never spoken! (is it an accident that dog is god backwards?)

Demonesse	02 Mar 2003
I think.. .... the truest form of love is adoration so deep and complete it has no bounds, where through another you can learn to let loose that chain of bitterness and self-doubt and pain that has always bound your limbs. Love is absolute loyalty, and blind faith, where there is total trust that if you fall, there will be someone who is there to help you up and comfort you and put a Band-Aid on, if that someone cannot catch you. Love is when there is a capacity to forgive but also refrainment from committing an act that would hurt the loved one; understanding boundaries and never crossing them. Love is taking pains to put a smile on the loved one's face, and finding yourself smiling suddenly for no particular reason others can divulge. Love is genuine and abiding fondness, acceptance for no other reason than he/she just IS, plain or pretty, quirky or straitlaced, weird habits and all. Love is pure contentment, unadulterated joy, utter peace - like a single crystal drop upon a flower petal. I am a very demanding person when it comes to love. All or nothing. :)

RedWood	02 Mar 2003
That was very well put Demonesse. I have to agree with you on ALL counts of what you said!

Major Tom	02 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden What is love? Love is the law. :) Here's a thread: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9800 And yes, Diana, God is love too. :laugh:

Aoife	02 Mar 2003
Demonesse, I love what you say about love and that's what I feel about those I have chosen to love - my children, my partner. But what about conditional love, indentured love, 'tough love'? I don't know.... are they still love? Is unconditional love the only love? Sorry, best I get back to the dog oracle. Once we cleared up the business of the frequency of dog-biscuit-bestowed-love he started to be really helpful. Eve

RedWood	02 Mar 2003
Concering AOIFE.... I believe there are all sorts of different love. Different Degress...For children. (most anyway) YOu love them enough you will die for them. You love them enough to let them sit in jail for a few days to save them.. Love is such an emotion. I dont think anyone can answer what is love? in a relationship..with a partner.. I feel Love is not enough to live on. There has to be more...just some thoughts.

firemaiden	02 Mar 2003
I completely agree with Demonesse, certainly the dog fulfills all of those requirements, and so does God. Once we get into the messier human variety, and the respecting boundaries thing, the definitions get a bit cloudier...

Liliana	02 Mar 2003
I dont think I can define love, but I can say a major componant of it is respect. My love is not something I can turn off, hide from, or anything like that. It was said if loves an activity what happens when you dont want to be active, well even when a human is not being "active" as it were, it is still "doing" a lot. A human thinks, breaths, their heart beats, their hair grows, all while at rest. The kind of love I have achieved is just as basic as breathing, its always there, but I only notice it when I think about it. Id like to say also that this love is different than the love between partners, possibly different than family love as well I never thought about it. This love is the love the Bible is talking of when it says love thy neighbor as thyself, and its the love referred to in my quote in my sig. I can honestly say I love EVERYONE on the planet, no matter who they are and what they done, and I find it a precious gift. Im thinking family love is probably a deeper more immediate form of the worldwide love, brought on by much time and bonding. Thats why people who spend many years in the same job or community often feel for their coworkers or such something prwetty close to family love, even those members you dont really "like" Love between partners is harder, I guess its the most intense form of the basic love, but there really isnt often a rhyme or reason why it strikes. You may just meet something and suddenly feel it, it may take years to develop. Im not sure if its something thats chosen on 2 individuals soul level and thats why it varies, different people listen to their soul better than others. But it seems a human soul is not meant to stay isolated, it needs someone to bestow its highest love on, and receive the highest love back from that person. Im not sure why on that either, perhaps its part of the human energy system Actually I should of said love between partners is the highest earthly love, there is still the leel of Divine love that is completely unknowable and ununderstandable by the human mind. God is love, so I guess Im talking of feeling God in different strengths. Many cannot seem to feel his weakest form, love for all humanity, but it is one of the most important parts because it makes you realise we are all one, then you get to feel God a little stronger in the family love, thats why families are so important in the Bible, a little more in partner love, also important in the Bible in books such as song of solomon but never explained fully as it has much of the mystery o God, and finally Divine love, which is most important but so unknowable that many humans spend a lot of their lives trying to feel it through meditation and whatnot Im sorry I wrote from such a Christian perspective, this is obviously all true from other religions views as well, but Christianity is what I know best :) :THP

firemaiden	02 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Liliana Im sorry I wrote from such a Christian perspective, this is obviously all true from other religions views as well, but Christianity is what I know best :) Never be sorry about your perspective, please! How boring would the world be with only one perspective. Plus the whole reason I come to Aeclectic in the first place, is because it is...well..aeclectic!

Demonesse	02 Mar 2003
Aoife: I don't think there can be truly "different" kinds of love - perhaps only shaded in different tones and nuances while remaining essentially the same - for example, you wouldn't want to have a romantic dinner with your children, but the basic, vital emotion remains the same. I don't believe that one can 'switch' from a kind of love to another depending on the situation, although I do believe that there are many different things pretending to be love, but ultimately fall short. The love I mentioned in my earlier post is the purest kind - perfect. Perhaps not all, or even none of us are capable of that extent of perfection, where self-interest and self-preservation are no longer top priority like they once were, where a person's natural selfish instincts just fade away in the consuming light. (It must be very akin to loving and being loved by God. That I would not know, though.) But when we DO love like that, we are transfigured. And when that love is returned in equal form, there is ascension to immortality and beyond, for whatever time is granted us. That is love.

Umbrae	02 Mar 2003
Love is the opposite of indifference…

zorya	02 Mar 2003
it think that love is what happens when we 'recognize' our connection to others (or things)....when we see ourselves and others as part of the same 'one'. when we see ourselves as completely separate from another, there is no love.

Mimers	02 Mar 2003
You don't realize what a tough question this is until you try to formulate the answer in your mind. It is my understanding that the Greek language, has many different words for love. The one used by Paul in his letter to the Corinthians is for unconditional love another interpretation would be charity. The Greek word is Agape. It is very easy to describe what we expect from love or what it makes us feel but so difficult to define it. I don't believe there is one inclusive definition. I also don't look at it as having degrees of measurement. I think having one word for love is limiting a very important thing. Love is when they put my newborn baby in my arms (actually while they were still growing inside me)and although I did not 'know' them, there was nothing I wouldn't do for them. Their happiness is my happiness. Their sorrows are my sorrows 10 fold. I don't love them expecting something in return. All I do for them and to them is out of love. Love is purly unselfish and I don't think the love between couples is even comparable to the love a parent feels for their child. Love between couples is a choice to share your life with someone that can help you grow in this life. I also believe that we do expect things in return for this love. We expect to be loved in return. We give, but we expect to receive also. It is an agreement between the two people to do this together and learn from each other. The ability to love is a gift. And after all of this I still don't know exactly what love is. Mimers

Moongold	02 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Aoife I'm struggling to organise my thoughts - sorry if I appear to ramble. Best I go now and consult the dog oracle - he knows much about the subject of love. *lol* Eve You are right, both Aoife and Firemaiden. Love is a Cosmic Dog. It's gift is unconditional. It doesn't care if your spiritual clothes are royal robes or a threadbare gaberdine overcoat. It bounds around and gives joyously anyway. It takes us out of ourselves and can *be* with us in any situation. It scares away the creepies and stretches us when we need it. Many thanks, Moongold

Moongold	03 Mar 2003
Did I kill this thread with the Cosmic Dog image or the Cyber Elves allusion? No posts here for 14 hours. Love is serious and fun. It is commitment and generosity. It's forgiveness too. It's believing in the possible, not the problem. That's my experience and belief. I found a nice quote from Tagore this evening: He who wants to do good knocks at the gate; he who loves finds the door open Moongold

cheekyminx	03 Mar 2003
Reading all the above threads kinda made me teary eyed. BOO HOO Love? Respect, honesty, communication! Love is god, god is love, we are the makings of gods love. We love our familly, we are in love with our partner (well I hope), we love our animals & I love chocolate & ice cream ;) We also have dislikes, but that's another topic. I believe hate is too harsh a word to use, so I only use dislike :)

Silverlotus	03 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Aoife In professional work with troubled families my colleagues and I have often observed that the opposite of love is not hate but indifference. And it is sad how quickly love can turn into indifference. But hate, you still have to care to be able to hate. How well I know that. As for love, I wish I knew what it was. I wish I knew why I loved, and why I love some people more then others, and why I choose to love the people I do. I'd like to know how long love can survive, what is needed to help love grow, and what shouldn't be done to someone you love. I think everyone is different, so the answers will all be different. Parhaps, for me, love is what you feel for someone who loves you regardless of who you are deep inside. I know defining a word with itself is wrong, but it seems to suit love.

jlbvt	09 Mar 2003
Here's my take on love: It is total respect and admiration for someone, who totally respects and admires you back. Not that they won't tell you when they think you are doing something wrong, but it should always be in a positive light. I am sooo lucky to have found a really great (perfect?) relationship that looks like it will last till one of us dies, and we also have a child together. I can count on one hand the times we have gotten really angry at each other. We have common interests to share, and different interests that we can enjoy seperately. We constantly learn from each other, and are in total admiration of each other. This, to me, is perfection. I was never really sure, until recent years, what love was. My parents hated each other and fought constantly until they got divorced. I had a few horrible relationships, and a few decent ones that were always lacking something. But I learned a lot from reading Ayn Rand's novels. She hit the nail on the head, and I finally realized she paints a perfect picture of love and what it should be, what it can be if people are honest with themselves and with others. Wow, I love Ayn Rand.

jmd	09 Mar 2003
...now how did I miss this thread for a whole week - perhaps I was otherwise engaged in having walked through the door I found opening... What a thread! and really, such an easy question - would but the answer have the same ease! But perhaps it is so difficult because in attempting to answer such depth, we are using only but one part of ourselves (necessarily here): words, having made their way, perhaps via the pathways of our hearts, but reflected within the clarifying thinking of our heads. Love itself is not this, neither is it 'just' that most wonderful description given by Demoness: 'the truest form of love is adoration so deep and complete it has no bounds, where through another you can learn to let loose that chain of bitterness and self-doubt and pain that has always bound your limbs' ...what wonderful words! Our being, opened to another. Our selves, given to another... even these are but mere descriptions. Does not the Fool exemplify Love, and the Magician, and yet the High Priestess, or the Empress, the Emperor, the Hierophant, the choice of the Lover, the triumph of the Chariot, or the understanding of Justice, or the depth of the Hermit - reaching out, perhaps to the antipodes, within radiant light, or the Wheel, accepting the lot gifted by the cosmic toaster... oops, sorry... by the spiritual beings, or the gentle inner strength of compassion, the sacrifice of the self, or even one's transformation in the petite (perhaps) death, and even the mirrors of illusory and voluntary chains, provisionally taken, or the calling from the Tower's top 'Je t'aime!' metamorphosising the world, or the grace pouring from the hand above in XVII, the Moon's, and the Sun's, by day and night, eternal immersion and joy, or Judgement's showing how love is, in so many ways, emerging from what was but a grave - the fullness of the World, within her Love's garland... a Fool, perhaps, but to the world only...

Ravenswing	12 Mar 2003
love is the outpouring of all that you are without restraint, without expectations, without considerations. it does not happen-- it simply is working towards love raven

Demonesse	12 Mar 2003
I do believe love can "happen"; often it's a gradual realization, a blooming, or like a fine antique, something that gains shine with age - a deepening of emotion, a maturity and contentment that wasn't there before. I think love at first sight is nonsensical, though :P

Major Tom	12 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Demonesse I think love at first sight is nonsensical, though :P I give you a gift: :T3S I like your poem. :) It was love at first sight for my girlfriend and me. ;) Love is a form of reverence.

Demonesse	12 Mar 2003
Cynical, aren't I? Bad demon! *hands Major Tom back the three blades* To each his own. :D Yes, love is a form of reverence. Well said. :) Love is also honesty, the unveiling of your skeletal secrets. Love can take root amongst a bed of lies, but eventually will wither and die, eating away from within like a maggot-ridden piece of candy.

firemaiden	12 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Ravenswing love is the outpouring of all that you are without restraint, without expectations, without considerations. it does not happen-- it simply is Amen, Sister. Can I quote you?

Ravenswing	12 Mar 2003
demonesse-- what i meant by 'love doesn't happen' is that love is not a temporal event; instead it is eternally existant energy. firemaiden-- sure you can quote me. one small thing though-- this time around i have a male body for a host.... LOL!! not quite androgynous yet... ravenswing

firemaiden	12 Mar 2003
Why did I assume.... something about ravens and wings.... Well, that's even better, cuz...guys are way way cool.

cheekyminx	12 Mar 2003
I wanna be in love *sigh* so then I can comment on what it really is;) Love, love me do You know I love you etc etc

Demonesse	13 Mar 2003
demonesse-- what i meant by 'love doesn't happen' is that love is not a temporal event; instead it is eternally existant energy. --- Ravenswing (whom I never thought was female, although I have mixed up genders more than once... ;) ) Well, I'm not sure I believe that, but it's food for thought :)

divinerguy	18 May 2003
[quote]Originally posted by Demonesse what i meant by 'love doesn't happen' is that love is not a temporal event; instead it is eternally existant energy./QUOTE] IMHO, this is about as a true a statement about the permanency of love as you can find. I have not seen my father in ten years. He lived thousands of miles from me, and circumstances didn't permit a visit. Although we seldom saw each other, our bond was strong. There is an emptiness in my life, now that he is gone. I want to call and tell him about my life and my family. I just want to hear his voice one last time. Love never dies.

The And now for something completely different: what is LOVE? thread was originally posted on 02 Mar 2003 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.