No Soul?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 01 Mar 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Aoife	01 Mar 2003
I have this half-formed theory...... ..... It is thought that psychopaths are responsible for a sizeable proportion of violent crime, particularly of the most violent, nastiest sort. Most 'experts' seem to agree that childhood abuse or deprivation does not cause it. There is no known 'treatment', it cannot be 'cured'. Some researchers are looking into brain structure, damage and dysfunction to provide an answer. It's been around a long time - since the beginning? "A born devil on whose nature nurture can never stick; on whom my pains humanely taken, all, all lost, quite lost... " Shakespeare 'The Tempest'. Those labelled 'psychopath' can appear 'wondrous in many ways', seductive, genuine... and yet there seems to be a gap between what they say and what they feel. There's a sense of emptiness... as though they are trying to predict the required response then reflecting back your reactions. It's said that psychopaths don't 'feel' what most of us feel, that they don't understand emotion or experience it in the same way that most of us do. They are said to be capable of 'kissing or killing' without a second thought. The most common definition speaks of there being asuper-ego lacunae - a hiatus, blank, missing/empty part.... ..... I have this half-formed theory that psychopaths may be human 'shells' without a soul. Your opinion would be greatly valued....

scheherazade	01 Mar 2003
I don't know, but I kind of disagree. It seems that psychopaths seem to not know what to do with beauty when they see it... so that when they see the beauty of life, the only way they know how to deal with it is to destroy it, ie rape and murder. Having been brought up a Catholic, I have adopted some of Christianity's beliefs, one of which is the Devil. I tend to think that the Devil plays with the psychopaths' souls and their perceptions - making them believe that life and love are of no value so to deal with their lack of understanding of them. I think it's the only way they can cope. They're evil-held souls, no doubt... but I don't think such atrocities can be committed without the presence of a soul. Without a soul, I think a person would have no will to do anything... except sit around, unaware of the world around them.

Aoife	01 Mar 2003
Scheherazade, what about the idea that psychopaths might indeed have periods of emptiness, no will do to anything - until a 'stray' soul hones in, occupies them for a while - maybe to work out an issue then departs. I suppose I'm suggesting that psychopaths might be 'possessed' on occasions? Maybe their most dire deeds are done whilst possessed by an 'evil' soul. It's certainly an explanation frequently offered by psychopaths for their deeds.

jema	02 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Aoife ..... I have this half-formed theory that psychopaths may be human 'shells' without a soul. Your opinion would be greatly valued.... i think we first must define just what a soul is. when do we get a soul? in what ways can the soul die and the person live on? do animals have a soul? perhaps they do indeed have a soul but somehow it is disconnected from the rest of us. they lack empathy and can't sense the soul in another person. perhaps they even feel like they are the only one that has a soul. think of the soul of a psychopath as a soul that is contained, deaf and blind to all others except for rare moments of connection and when that connection is gone, when their soul is yet again lonely, they do these things to try and reconnect only in a terribly wrong way... just pondering of course. as i still can't really define what a soul is and how it works. but let's say it is a divine spark, then i do believe we all have it. even the psychopaths.

firemaiden	02 Mar 2003
Right Aoife, whatever the soul is, however you are defining it, it seems that is what they don't have. I don't believe in separable souls of course. I agree with the Aetheists-- asking what happens to the soul after death, is like asking what happens to the 60 miles per hour after the car hits the tree... When I use the word "soul", and I use it alot, I use it to express the deep core of feeling that is not always accessible on the surface. It seems that what is missing from a psychopath is a deep core of feeling, or more particularly, an ability to empathise, is that right? Devil or no devil, I don't think it is useful or constructive to assign responsiblity to non-human entities. If we see a psychopath as an empty shell occupied by different demons, we give up once and for all our ability to contain him, or to learn anything further about such people. However, I think you are on to something -- with the emptiness part, and the something missing part. Something like a link between two halves of the brain perhaps, it sounds like the feeling and thinking aspects of the brain are severed. Are they capable of suffering?

truthsayer	02 Mar 2003
what makes psychopaths interesting is their capability to learn how to "blend in" amongst others. they learn social patterns and how to use these to exploit others to their own advantage. imho, psychopaths are the ultimate human predator. trying to tame a psychopath is like keeping a lion as a housepet. you can't take the wildness out of a lion and it's impossible to guess what may spark that hidden predator within. they don't really need anyone but to satisfy convention they marry and get involved in community of thers. making friends with a psychopath is like a cat playing with a mouse before killing it. the cat doesn't see anything wrong with killing the mouse when finished with it. neither does such an individual. perhaps it would help your study of psychopaths and deciding whether or not they have a soul to do a search on FBI profilers. the information on these sites is fascinating b/c profilers are basically asked to get inside the head of such a person in order to catch him or her. reading about how serial killers like john wayne gacy or ted bundy were able to fit in and even convince others of their innocence when charged with murder is truly chilling. they have learned to do what they do in private b/c society frowns on such behavior. i have heard that the urge to kill is like a nagging thought that won't go away. the only way to ease that urge is the chosen method of behavior whether rape or murder or whatever. for example, after ted bundy was released from prison he didn't stalk these victoms like he had previous ones. he went on a killing spree at a university in florida. the need/urge to kill which he had been pushing back simply exploded in a release of intense inner pressure. john wayne gacy did volunteer work as a clown. how could a clown be harmful? his guise disarmed unwitting victims. i don't know if it's that they lack souls or they have a soul that is designed differently that other humans. a soul that is predatorial and part animal meeting a primal urge to hunt. it's like a tiger taking on human characteristics but on the inside it's still a tiger. it has no qualms about doing what is a vital part of his/her being. i've heard that killing to them is an intense inner release and very pleasureable which leads to the desire to take keepsakes of the experience when other killers would hide all evidence. this is a very interesting thread.

Liliana	02 Mar 2003
No, I cant agree with them having no souls, but perhaps they have more primal ones, ones equivalent to what was had by the predecessors to homo sapiens. Much of their lives were kill or be killed. Or perhps during the courses of reincarnation their soul has become twisted through events it has witnessed or has been forced to participate in, like a soul who was one of the murders in the Nazi camps may have problems in a future incarnation. Of course you have to believe in reincarnation for all that, which I do. If you dont, I guess it mdepnds where you think souls come from. If there is a place or thing that generates them, and has been generating them for years, and everyone is diferent, I think it would be possible for it to spit out a bad combo once in awhile, just like a computer will once in awhile spit out an error. :THP

firemaiden	02 Mar 2003
But Aoife, doesn't a pathological need to kill to relieve tension bespeak of some tension? some actual damage received in this world? Is there such a thing as a non-criminal psychopath? Is there a relation to autism, the kind of autism that includes an inability to experience emotion?

Aoife	02 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden But Aoife, doesn't a pathological need to kill to relieve tension bespeak of some tension? some actual damage received in this world? This is pure speculation but - it seems to me that the 'release of tension' explanation is that which is offered by the psycopathic person. [although i use the term' psychopath', i'm still not comfortable defining a person in terms of a condition]. One thing we know about psycopaths is that they're not to be believed without evidence to confirm. However, saying that - I do know that paedophiles speak of similar tension-building experiences and it's an accurate predictor they're likely to offend. But I think they actually generate the tension themselves - it's part of their pattern or cycle of offending. Certainly, not all paedophiles can be said to be psychopaths. Quote: Is there such a thing as a non-criminal psychopath? So I believe - but it's obviously much harder for researchers to gather evidence. A prison setting does provide a rather captive audience [sorry!] I've read that there's research going on about 'industrial psycopaths', the link with 'road rage' and violence in sport. Psycopathic tendencies are arguably useful in the aggressive business world. Quote: Is there a relation to autism, the kind of autism that includes an inability to experience emotion? [/b] Of this I have no idea. I thought though that autism was about an inability or difficulty with communicating emotion rather than the absence of emotion - but I'm probably wrong.

RAVENAL	02 Mar 2003
speaking about soul and reincarnation...possibly this killer/victim relationship...is a karmic agreement between the 2...if we are all eternal...and we incarnate to learn and experience...possibly we at times choose to play the killer and other times the victim... and if we are eternal... we all know death and life...so all the horror and repulsion we experience at these psychopathic atrocities is our judgement at this side of the life/death cycle... most souls incarnating may not choose to experience these extreme types of life expressions...both as the victim and as the killer... so there are only a few psychopaths incarnated at any one time...so they seem more aberrant...deranged and bizarre...without SOUL...to the rest of us...who choose more normalcy... if most incarnated beings were to choose these experiences...this would upset the balance of life...most of humanity goes through life in any age without there being a preponderance of killers or victims...and thankfully life goes on... I do believe psychopaths have souls...that SOUL is an inseparable aspect of being human...but I also see the souls in animals and almost everything...I still have difficulty dealing with all the suffering that exists upon the earth...but maybe that is a human value judgement...and from a larger perspective it doesn't really exist at the eternal level of being...

HudsonGray	02 Mar 2003
I've always thought that anything capable of love has a soul (so animals DO have them), but with the seriously psychopathic, I suspect they loose connection to what their soul actually is. It's there, just not connected so it can't influence them. Can there be a non-criminal psychopath? Now that's a thought! Probably, but then you'll likely never hear about them because they don't make the news. Anyone here from a psychology background? Maybe they know for sure.

Moongold	02 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Aoife This is pure speculation but - it seems to me that the 'release of tension' explanation is that which is offered by the psychopathic person. ....... That explanation is also offered by people who self-harm. It is a release of indescribable tension or pain. The difference is that psychopaths often harm others but rarely themselves. Breaking down the name psychopath, it means diseased mind or sick mind, I would add "spirit" to that. A psychopath could be defined as a person who has a "dis - eased mind and spirit". Then we reach Jema's question about the nature of soul or spirit. Perhaps the answers are a mix of physical, social and spiritual factors. Some people with that label would be amenable to healing and some would need to be contained for the rest of their lives. Some people might have all the components of psychopathy but never really act on them until a trigger happens. It's an incredibly complex question, Eve. Too heavy for this hour of the morning! Moongold

Aoife	02 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by HudsonGray Anyone here from a psychology background? Maybe they know for sure. HudsonGray, I think there's lots of us here with a psychology background and I'd hazard a guess the only thing we know for sure is that we're never likely to 'know' for sure. *lol* Moongold, sorry! *lol* Your comments reminded me of a book I read, perhaps 20 years ago "Woman on the edge of time" by Marge Piercy. The woman in question occupied another reality for much of the time. In that reality people who caused harm to others were given lots of help and healing. If they offended again I think they were offered exile or euthenasia. But as I say, I read the book many years ago. And besides - I really didn't want to introduce issues of capital punishment into the debate. *Eve, ducking quickly out of sight*

Moongold	02 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Aoife Moongold, sorry! *lol* Your comments reminded me of a book I read, perhaps 20 years ago "Woman on the edge of time" by Marge Piercy. The woman in question occupied another reality for much of the time. In that reality people who caused harm to others were given lots of help and healing. If they offended again I think they were offered exile or euthenasia. But as I say, I read the book many years ago. And besides - I really didn't want to introduce issues of capital punishment into the debate. *Eve, ducking quickly out of sight* I wouldn't either! We would never leave. The people you have brought up for discussion, Eve, seem to be those who come in contact with the criminal justice system because they've killed or hurt someone. That is usually how they end up with the label "psychopath". Society has to make some decision about what to do with them. Heal them, contain them or both? In fact "psychopaths" only become a problem when they do hurt others. And I imagine there are characteristics which distinguish them even further. Moongold

DeLani	02 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Liliana No, I cant agree with them having no souls, but perhaps they have more primal ones, ones equivalent to what was had by the predecessors to homo sapiens. Much of their lives were kill or be killed. I have to respectfully disagree, Liliana. There is no evidence that our Homo sapien ancestors were brutal at all. In fact, most evidence suggests that even though they had a hard life (elements, food scarcity), they used cooperation and sharing to survive. That myth of the brutal caveman is nothing but patriarchal propaganda, as if brutality and violence are somehow more "natural" than caring and tenderness. On to the topic at hand - since 'soul' is a very subjective word, there can't be any definitive answer to your question. I believe that anything that lives and breathes has a soul - even plants. I also believe that there is a sort of "uber-soul" that inhabits and animates everything - even rocks and stars. Psychopaths, or as they are more commonly called, sociopaths, show very little activity in the frontal lobes of their brains - where the concepts of right and wrong and conscience reside. To me, they are disabled. They simply have malfunctioning or absent consciences (or super-egos, if you will). I don't see anything more, or less, spiritual about that than someone who was born with no arms & legs. Sometimes nature screws up in very strange ways. We are too small to understand, so we try to come up with theories and categories to try and comprehend what I believe are simply random ****-ups. Just my opinion of course - all due respect. This is a fascinating thread (my major was anthropology, somewhat focus on forensics)

truthsayer	02 Mar 2003
john douglas, former FBI profiler has a fascinating website plus he has written several books. he has an interesting theory about what appears to be an increase in sociopaths in the midwestern united states. it has to do with the break down of the family structure and decrease in children growing up with extended family influence. children growing up with extended family have more sources of emotional support, approval and mentors than in the nuclear family. the nuclear family tends to be transient and isolated. the midwest has seen the break-up of farming families which he believes has increased the number of serial killers. i find it entirely within reason that a sociopath can be an otherwise good citizen except for ruthless behavior towards others in some way. what about persons who have the means, legality or opportunity to take from others in desperate situations or too naive to know better. i'm hesistating from name any particular profession b/c i don't want to appear to be stereotyping b/c this can happen in any profession. what pops to mind is the used car salesman who makes a living taking advantage of others ignorance or plastic surgeon who willingly continues to do plastic surgery on a patient who doesn't need it b/c the money is good. the ambulance chasing attorney. the person who preys off the elderly in varous schemes. the man/woman who romances wealthy wo/men then wipes out their bank accounts. these cases the higher motivation of self is greed instead of killing. but there is still the predatorial behavior. just some thoughts. i don't think there are any real hard core answers about sociopaths but they are fascinating.

Alex	03 Mar 2003
psychopaths are not able to feel empathy. Psychology is a master-discipline when it comes to mixing cause with effect, or else, the cause of a disorder with the symptoms of that disorder. Psychopathy has a strong genetic component. I believe the causal factors are multiple. But what "causes" it is meaningless to explain the disorder itself. I don't know about the soul though. My ex-husband has been diagnosed with a personality disorder. All of the disorders in the "personality disorders" spectrum share some "symptoms". That of feeling "empty" being one of them. My ex- could go on and on about this "emptines" thing. I never got it. I don't understand what it means to feel "empty". Empty of what? I were shure sometimes he was full. Full with hate, jealousy, full with bad things working inside him. One or twice, I saw the Devil when I looked though his eyes. So may be they aren't empty, but full. Full with nonsense (to the rest of us) and sometimes full with bad things. Just my one cent worth, for what it is worth. Alex.

Inana	03 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by DeLani Psychopaths, or as they are more commonly called, sociopaths, show very little activity in the frontal lobes of their brains - where the concepts of right and wrong and conscience reside. To me, they are disabled. They simply have malfunctioning or absent consciences (or super-egos, if you will). I don't see anything more, or less, spiritual about that than someone who was born with no arms & legs. This is the point. This doesn't have any connection with the soul. Psychopaths and other mental diseases are just that: psychic problems. There's something not working well in the brain. Depending on the mental illness it could affect anyone or not. Take for example stress, depression or schyzophrenia, all are mental issues and almost everyone can develop one of this states depending on the context surrounding the person... żAre the souls not present, bad connected or something when this happens? I don't think so. Are psychicological and physical matters affecting the emotions and the perception of the world and life.

Aoife	03 Mar 2003
Inana, I'm afraid the available evidence doesn't support your view. There's no evidence that psychopathy can be developed - it seems you're either born with it or can develop psychopathic tendencies as a result of serious brain trauma. The evidence is that therapeutic treatment programmes can actually make matters worse. Psychopaths can have a remarkable 'gift' of convincing therapists that they've found the light, seen the error of their ways. I've heard stories of highly skilled and experienced therapists being completely taken in. I've read that scientists are working on microchip brain implants. What would your view be about this in terms of human rights issues - particularly if there's evidence it works?

Inana	05 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Aoife Inana, I'm afraid the available evidence doesn't support your view. There's no evidence that psychopathy can be developed - it seems you're either born with it or can develop psychopathic tendencies as a result of serious brain trauma. The evidence is that therapeutic treatment programmes can actually make matters worse. Psychopaths can have a remarkable 'gift' of convincing therapists that they've found the light, seen the error of their ways. I've heard stories of highly skilled and experienced therapists being completely taken in. I've read that scientists are working on microchip brain implants. What would your view be about this in terms of human rights issues - particularly if there's evidence it works? Mmmmmh. Ok, maybe psychopathy cant be developed, im not familiar with it after all. I know well other mental issues and just was comparing cause some of them are deep resting in the mind and suddenly, they can appear when a difficult time in life of the person, etc... or dont develop after all. My thought was that maybe was the same with it. About your question, its a hard one... I mean i never have liked thecniques relating to implant microchips or similar. One of the worse things i can thought about its people having this kind of implants and someone else controlling their brains. Its just scary. But when we are talking on issues like the psychpathic one... maybe its not that bad. They're ill people that hurt themselves or the others and if there's no other solution... But well, when mind freedom is in the way, its hard to chose.

Lana	06 Mar 2003
This soul/no soul idea is almost funny isn't it? I mean, when one (or at least when *I*) think(s) of the enormity of such a question, laughing is all there seems to do. Who on Earth knows! However, does anyone here have an opinion on the multiverse theory? ;) For those who may not know, it's basically the idea that every single possibility of every single being is actually played out, just in parallel universes. It's based on quantum theory. I hadn't actually ever known about it until my partner suggested it to me one day when I found him sitting at his dining table looking very sombre indeed. He announced to me that people must have varying levels of 'having a soul' as he could find no other explanation as to why some people just seemed so utterly incomprehendable. I mean, everyone must agree that there are a multitude of people out there that, no matter HOW HARD you TRY to understand, are impossible. I suppose those psychopaths would be included in such a bracket and we can talk about frontal lobes and backgrounds and broken families and even their being posessed by evil spirits till we're all blue in the face but can there really be an answer which can be explained in any of the terms we all know or at least are exposed to right now? Coming back to the multiverse, my partner's idea was that the soul existed - or rather, was strongest shall we say because the soul could exist in one or be divided up into portions - in the universe that allowed the individual to live for the longest amount of time. So, there are a billion trillion zillion onion (:P) of each of us out there and in our lives, every possibly horrible thing and every possible good thing that could happen to us, DOES occur, but we are only conscious of the one which allows the longest lifespan. Hence, our soul is in that one reality. You may think: WHAT? How horrible! I'm raped/shot/stabbed/eaten/a murderer/a psycho/ etc etc etc somewhere out there in the multiverse?! Yes! But they're not really you. YOU are only in one reality. By this rationale, most of the people around you are actually, yes, souless. This could account for why you can only relate to a few people really well. It is because their souls are either in the same or a close universe to your own. We are all the same. We all want the same things, and were all our souls in the same universe, maybe we'd all just get along like white bunnies in a green field. ;p You have lots of wonderful friends? You're close to lots of souls. Lucky you. This also would mean that it really does "always happen to someone else". In any situation where the outcome would be where you are injured badly or killed, your soul does not exist so it doesn't matter. You don't die till it truly is your time. You could play Russian Roulette and the other person would die because it's NEVER YOURSELF. It's a mind-boggling but exciting idea, the multiverse. Or so I think. hehe. So, if I believe in this, this would mean that the most incomprehendable people are those with the least of a soul in my universe. Those with whom I feel a connection, are those with more of a soul. If someone out there has a magnificent counter for all this prattle that could completely disprove this theory, then haha... I apologize for my ignorance - though I can't imagine who. :P I cannot completely believe that theory nor do I really have much in the way to back it atm - and hell, I'm not going to try Russian Roulette games to try and prove it - but sometimes for smaller issues, it's a nice logic to apply. Keeps me from getting angry at seeming morons and less sad/afraid of the 'psychopaths' because by the theory, somewhere out there, they're living a life where they live and behave probably a lot like myself. (check this post? Like hell. haha. If I'm unclear, please feel free to ask me to rephrase. :) )

Liliana	06 Mar 2003
I understand you, but now I wonder if Im the strongest me or if theres a stronger me out there, when i die will this me be one of the ones that doesnt matter, or will it be really my time when this shell dies? Well at least I dont think Im the weakest me hehe Its very interesting.; :THP

RAVENAL	06 Mar 2003
Hi Lana I am familiar with multiverse theory...and I don't understand it in exactly the same way you do...which is as it should be...but some of the concepts you describe...where every moment breaks into infinite possibilities which all play out at the same time is something I do believe and have experienced...I believe we all travel thru different aspects of these infinite dimensions and realitys in other conscious or extra-conscious or unconscious or sub-consious states...etc... there are scientific theories and evidence to support this...but also the intuitive and subjective human experiences give us evidence...from all cultures...and all races...all religions...the mystical states of the shaman and the saint...just to name a few...we are so much more than we currently allow our present reality consiousness to be aware of... and your and your boy friends theories are very interesting and certainly a possible explanation...the popular author Richard Bach has used his books to explore these theorys and he has made them easy to understand ...allowing our mostly left brained focus to grasp these ideas..."One " is the book I read many years ago when my son and I were discussing and exploring these ideas... he was maybe 10 at the time and is a genius...he was identified as such at the 2nd grade level... but we knew from birth he was different...this is not just a proud mom talking...and he was studing quantum theory and needed to explain it to me...because of my more limited thinking (and traditional school programming) I was having difficulty understanding the concepts of time/space/multiverse...in relation to myself and personal experience...he put it into simplistic terms...saying "Mom you may not be the same Mom that gave birth to me...that mom may be in another reality now...but you are my mother of the moment and we change in every moment and so does everything else...we are everywhere...but focused now..." and over the years as my experience and understanding have expanded and I have explored other consciousness states I do even in my present focus and reality experience the slipping of the veils...and can become aware of and become my other selves...this is not unusual I think...and have discussed this with others who have experienced the same and other experiences supportive of this "theory"...but most of us are just unaware of this and it's potential for exploration at a conscious level... I bet there are allot of us on Aeclectic who have similiar experiences to relate...the book 11:11 by Solara talks in parts of consciously using this awareness to change your present reality...another interesting exploration of what we are at more expanded levels of being...

XLCR	09 Mar 2003
In one of her books Sylivia Browne (the psychic) described what she calls a "dark" entity (psychopath you may call them) as a soul that "recycles" back to earth without a "script". Those of you who believe and see/speak to guides understand that we all come here with things we need to acomplish/experiance in this lifetime. And we come with guides and plenty of divine assistance. Well according to Sylvia "dark" entities do not come with any set guidlines and no spiritual assitants. She believes that we ALL are from the light and to the light we will return...but for some reason the"dark" one's souls upon death are not directed towards the light and are just born again. She believes this happens continually until they are finally directed back into the light. I have to say that I have come across one of these dark entities, actually had a relationship with this person - his aura was dark but felt to me like pain. sadness, and abuse to me. Felt I could help in someway...but began to realize that this persons feelings had no "depth" and truly felt that he could "kiss me or kill me" with the same intensity. His being very psychically advanced makes him all the more horrific... it took a very psychically and spiritually aware person to help me understand that this person could not be "helped."

truthsayer	09 Mar 2003
xlcr, i've also heard of the theory that you describe. i've dealt with a few of what sylvia browne describes as dark souls. i'm not sure i agree this theory applies to all dark souls but it makes sense to me. i really wanted to help these folks, too. i could sense the emptiness and darkness they felt. they had an amazing way of summing me up and figuring out how to get me to give them what they wanted without raising a voice. after dealing with a dark soul, i would feel totally wrung. i know at least 2 of them had murdered someone. one is a master manipulator. he can act so nice when it's to his best interest but so nasty when you've reached the end of your usefullness. they are the ultimate narcisists and totally self-absorbed. maybe that's why they aren't able to to absorb the light that's being offered so freely by others to them.

Lana	09 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by RAVENAL and over the years as my experience and understanding have expanded and I have explored other consciousness states I do even in my present focus and reality experience the slipping of the veils...and can become aware of and become my other selves.. Really? You think you have? What does that feel like and what signs lead you to believe you experience the 'slipping of the veils'?

genna	09 Mar 2003
I think because there are people with only traits of psycopathy,psycopaths do have souls.I´ve heard many people have these traits,and unless you belong to a congregation believing in predestination,there is no room for so many people who never get any better. I believe psycopathy is brain-damage,and that you can inherit the condition,it having something to do with too little blood reaching the frontal lobe of the brain. I don´t say it´s an illness,and psycopaths should of course be punished for their crimes as severely as people who commit crimes for other reasons.I believe it to be the only way to keep them from crimes,even if they have problems learning from mistakes. However,as it is brain-damage involved,I think the soul is there,and can be reborn into a body with a normal brain. BTW,reading about quantum theory and multiverse here was very interesting-I will ivestigate those books by Bach.Thank you.

The No Soul? thread was originally posted on 01 Mar 2003 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.