Quantum Questions

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 16 Mar 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Ravenswing	16 Mar 2003
Thanks for the thoughts Umbrae-- Consider-- when we make an observation, we become a part of the system being examined. There is no such thing as a detached observer; the very act of observation pulls us in. when dealing with little itsy bitsy particles, if you measure one thing, you fuddle up another. so you can't know which way it's going AND how fast it's moving 'cause the process of checking the particle out changes it. Never mind trying to figure out where it is; as soon as we locate it, it's moved... And weird things about circles. the area of a circle and its circumference are related by that great pi in the sky. trouble is, we can't pin pi down-- too irrational (not crazy, just irrational). so what does this mean? if you measure out the string to make your circle, you can't find out exactly what the area is. (the math says there IS no exact area) if you know an exactly how much area you want in your corral, you'll never figure out how long the string should be to enclose it. none of this seems to make much sense, does it?? We have kind of the same problem when we ask questions. A question will only be answered within a certain system, a particular model of reality. If we're looking for answers, in a way, they're already determined by the questions. So here we're back to square one (as my wife would lament). We shouldn't be looking for answers. We have to find new questions... fly well raven

Red Emma	16 Mar 2003
Right on, Raven. The best description of the quantum phenomenon I've seen in a long time.

DarkElectric	16 Mar 2003
Sort of like "The only absolute truth is that there isn't any absolute truth."?

AYIN	16 Mar 2003
You have a wise wife Ravenswing.

Red Emma	16 Mar 2003
DarkElectric: Absolutely!

jamesriouxctm	17 Mar 2003
Hello all, Just wanted to add a couple of thoughts to Ravenswing's musings as an honest-to-goodness quantum physicist. First of all, Niels Bohr (founder of modern atomic theory) would stand up and applaud the notion that observing the self changes the self - this is indeed a very "quantum" concept and is a great way to understand how the observer and observed interact. Second, I wanted to touch on this: Quote: We have kind of the same problem when we ask questions. A question will only be answered within a certain system, a particular model of reality. If we're looking for answers, in a way, they're already determined by the questions. It may (or may not surprise) you to learn that there is actually a mathematical equivalent of this statement. It's Godel's theorem. It basically states that the mathematical problems we're capable of solving depend on the axioms we decide upon. Problems that cannot be solved with our current mathematics could be solved in other systems, but then some problems which are solvable in our mathematics would become impossible, even in principle. So the answers which we're possible of finding really do depend on where we start our search for those answers.

Ravenswing	17 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by jamesriouxctm Hello all, Just wanted to add a couple of thoughts to Ravenswing's musings as an honest-to-goodness quantum physicist. jamesriouxctm-- The above quote can be interpreted (by the axioms of English grammer) that I'm the 'honest-to-goodness quantum physicist'. Beware of your system and its limits }) LOL... And for those who wish to follow up on Godel-- check out 'Godel, Esher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid' by Douglas Hofstadter. Prepare yourself for a Carrollean ride... fly well Ravenswing

AYIN	17 Mar 2003
I've read that book Ravenswing, not an easy read! Maybe the future is only as good as our imaginations. What we seek, we seem to find. Did we imagine Bush?

The Quantum Questions thread was originally posted on 16 Mar 2003 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.