Where in the bible does it say....

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 29 Mar 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

angelwhispers	29 Mar 2003
Does anyone know roughly where in the bible it talks about fortune telling etc and how wrong it is? The reason I ask is because my sister-n-law's husband feels I'm going to hell because I attended a psychic fair recently and had a "fortune reading" (my first fair by the way and I thought it was very interesting). I know this is ridiculous but she told me he feels the need to save my soul before all is lost. She doesn't feel this way just him. This is why I stay in the "tarot closet" with my husbands side of the family, it was my mistake to tell my sister-n-law that I even attended let alone that I had a reading but I knew she had no problem with that kind of thing, I wasn't thinking about her husband growing up in the bible belt and his views. Anyway before I have scripture thrown in my face I would at least like to read up on it if anyone could help me out. Thanks :)

RedWood	29 Mar 2003
you will get lots of different responses..I do not know the bible much..But i do remember...Didnt joseph divine dreams? if you looke at divination..you can off and stem it to teh divine..the divine can be God (or chosen deitty)

Rhiannon	29 Mar 2003
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=10946&highlight=bible+tarot Not all nice and light, but might be informative. R :)

angelwhispers	29 Mar 2003
I think you're right Redwood, I believe Joseph interpreted dreams. Thanks for the link to the other thread Rhiannon. Should I have posted this in Divination? I wasn't sure.

marlowe	29 Mar 2003
It's OK - most "christians" don't know their scriptures either - if you want to thwart a christian, study the Bible. They'll hate it when you quote scripture at them to expose their hypocrisy - this is a fun past-time to have. But people like that are never wrong - you can disprove their words constantly and nothing will shake their belief that they're right, and you're a devil going to hell.

rota	29 Mar 2003
'...thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.' This is the phrase usually cited by literalist Bible believers expressing their concern and horror when they find someone messing with Tarot. They figure you're going straight to hell to boil eternally near a triumphantly-grinning devil when you die. a little websurfing brought up the following essay concerning the wellknown biblical injunction: http://www.witchvox.com/words/words_1999/e_sufferawitch.html It will explain fairly clearly that what people understand by the phrase today is not what was meant when the King James version was put on paper for people in England to read. (up to that point, remember, the Bible was only available to clergy. Few other people could read, much less read Latin.) But really, no amount of word-parsing will convince a mainstream Baptist or Mormon or whatever that you're okay with Tarot cards. They fear for your future, and they're afraid of Tarot. Explaining that they may believe wrongly won't get them on your side either. There's no quick way to 'win' your argument. Only the most open-minded among the churched will understand that Tarot is used to open to the Divine, to hear the Higher, to advance the soul, and to learn. The best way to show that you're all right is by the life you lead, the company you keep, and the fruits of your effort. Hardly anyone can argue with that. I certainly wish you well, angelwhispers. Many of us have dealt and are dealing with companions who don't see what we see.

Mimers	29 Mar 2003
Having spent quite a few years as a born again Christian and well versed in the bible, I would reccomend you not argue it at all. It is true from my experience, that it does not matter what you tell a person who has strong convictions for the Bible. I would simply tell him that you do appreciate his concerns for your salvation, but remind him also it is your soul on the line and you will make the decisions concerning it. When he starts throwing verses at you just look at him, smile and tell him thank you for your concern, but I don't care to discuss it. This is what my family did to me when I started throwing around Bible verses :D When it comes to divination the Bible is full of it. The whole book of Revelations is fortune telling at its best. Many Christians will call this prophesy and this to them means it is ok. It is quite the same. He will probably quote to you Acts 16:16-18 where Paul casts a demon out of a fortune teller.

jonesy	29 Mar 2003
angelwhispers, jonesy here. i have e mailed you something that i wrote last year. i think it will help with what it is that you are going through with the christian influence. as others have mentioned, the book of revelation is all "fortune telling" also the book of daniel and umpteen other areas. ask about the book of genesis where it states that "we shall create man in our image..." and don't let them give you the holy trinity thing for that too would be schizophrenic and not even mentioned until the new testament. i could go on and on but probably shouldn't hope all goes well for you in whatever way you choose to handle the situation. i do also think that it would be a frivolous attempt to try and explain anything to the well brainwashed. take care jonesy

RedWood	29 Mar 2003
I am with Mimers...DOnt argue it at all...Just nod..and say ok a lot when it is brought up.. THen if they get mad. Sweetly say "I dont want to argue with you" then if he keeps it up..you will just have to be firm about it.

HudsonGray	29 Mar 2003
The old Testament is full of priests doing all sorts of divination under the lord (the good guys, not the 'bad' guys) and Daniel interpreted the Pharoah's prophetic dreams......and that's right about the entire Revelations section, all it IS is divination. I don't know where this guy thinks he has a leg to stand on, but who knows. Don't argue, it's not going to change his mind. Just tell him you're open to more life experiences than he apparently is & it's worth checking a few of them out on your own without him being your mom for you. He's only responsible for his own soul, not yours. Unfortunately you'll meet some people like this, best to just stay the adult & not get in a discussion over it. Religion, politics & haircuts, three things never to talk about or all it does is create argument. (Ok, Angelwhispers, how did the reading turn out?)

RedWood	29 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by HudsonGray Religion, politics & haircuts, three things never to talk about or all it does is create argument. AMEN!!

Mimers	29 Mar 2003
Hallalujah!

coldsuns	30 Mar 2003
I'm not a Christian but i believe in Jesus. I know he is protecting everyone and helping us. However there is something i'm sad and angry about. Is it true that you will be thrown into the "Lake of Fire" if you dont believe in Jesus? Even though Jesus did so many things for us, forsake his life for us and yet people dont believe him. And those people will be thrown into the "Lake of Fire"? I was wondering that what if those people that dont even know what's Jesus. Will they be also threw inside? And my grandparents are Buddhist/Taoist and somehow they dislike Christian(Jesus as well). Will they be also threw into the "Lake of Fire"? Can someone tell me the page written about it? I hope to know more about--> "Lake of Fire".

anjocoxo	30 Mar 2003
I also agree that you can never EVER win an argument with that kind of christian, it's like the jeovah's witness, you can give them all the logical argumentation, and they still think ill of you. If I were you, I wouldn't even try to discuss things; however if they start to become abusive with the "I'm saving your soul" thing, just decline politely. Be assertive, but not agressive, is my opinion. Don't let them crawl all over you, but don't "throw wood into the fire" (if you know what I mean) Anjo

Mimers	30 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by coldsuns Is it true that you will be thrown into the "Lake of Fire" if you dont believe in Jesus? Even though Jesus did so many things for us, forsake his life for us and yet people dont believe him. And those people will be thrown into the "Lake of Fire"? Coldsuns, Ask yourself. Do you really think that God would throw any of his children into a lake of fire? Do you in your heart of hearts really believe this? Remember that the Bible was written by men. I could look up verses in the Bible for you, but I want you to decide. I believe in Jesus also and I have had many arguments over this subject. God loves us. He created us. He gave us free will. He is all knowing. He is all wise. He gave us free will Why would God give us free will if He did not want us to use it. Did he give us free will so we could make the wrong choice and go to Hell? I think not. He loves us too much. He would not have given us free will if He did not expect us to use it. You and your parents have nothing to worry about. We all share a wonderful God. We are all a part of Him and come from Him. This is what I believe and you don't have to agree with me to go to Heaven. Follow your heart. It won't stear you wrong. Mimi

coldsuns	30 Mar 2003
I believe the Jesus will do this to the children he created. I understand now and choose to follow my heart and what i believe. I've a friend keep misleading me. She says that if you choose not to believe in Jesus, you will be throw into the "Lake of Fire". Then i say that Bible is created by men, i dont believe Jesus will do that. She said,"Nobody can change the statement in the Bible, otherwise they will go to Hell and be torture badly." She's also a friend that say that i'm being blocked or rather with Satan. Coz i always say witchcrafts,witches and Tarot Decks for nothing to do with Satan. But she says those stuffs do. How can i change a mind of this friend? Sometimes i do choose not to talk about the topic. But i've other friends that i'll talk to about these. Then she will be not happy and angry.

HOLMES	30 Mar 2003
to change the minds of others isn't the path, but to change ourselves and follow our own paths. your friends have their own paths, and their own ways. they may be sharing their friendship in trying to save you.. or could be reliterating beliefs taught to them and doing what they think is right. if you must prove your case, they have won half the battle, in a sense, for they have one thinking they are wrong. (the bible has been changed since ancient times that could be a key ) some friends you will outgrow, other friends you will keep for the rest of your life, in your heart. if one strives to change the minds of freinds instead of accepting them for who they are, then are they really freinds. whcih is not to say friends can't share opnions, yet friends share it , listen, and debate (all friends debate) and after that a line get set up eventually that says look my friend i cant' change your mind, you can't change mine, but i respect you and like you, and you do the same for me shall we let this wreck our freindship or shall we transcend our beliefs.?

Kiama	30 Mar 2003
Coldsuns: I have posted a thread about Questioning Everything. I think here it is time for you to start questioning everything... Question what you friend is saying to you. She is Christian. Are you? Does Christianity fit your beliefs? Just because somebody says something is true doesn't mean that it is. Christians say one thing. Jews say another. Buddhists say another. Muslims say another. Hindus say another. Sikhs saya nother. Pagans say another. You are constantly hearing from your friend the Christian views. Go find yourself a member of each of the other religions, and hear their views on this. They will give you many different answers, and it will then be up to you to question them, and ask yourself if YOU believe them. Christianity is not the only way (Despite what Christians may say) and it may not be the right way for you. Its time to ask yourself about it. Kiama

coldsuns	30 Mar 2003
Holmes: Ok..i understand. I follow my own path and not to change my friend's path but to understand her path. She becomes arrogance ever since i'm into witchcraft/tarot. I respect her religious. I dont really mind about "Lake of Fire" but just with some questions about it and to understand it. Kiama: I believe in what i believe in. Is just that i hope to know more to make sure that what i believe is right. I dont want to make mistakes. Though you learn from mistakes. Is better to avoid mistakes however. I know that she has the right to believe what she want. But i just hope to let her understand. Coz she just keep wanting to believe in something that is completely in the wrong path. She's actually walking blindly with the same broken stick towards the path. She should buy a new stick(accept what i told her) and think about it before walking.

Kiama	30 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by coldsuns Coz she just keep wanting to believe in something that is completely in the wrong path. She's actually walking blindly with the same broken stick towards the path. She should buy a new stick(accept what i told her) and think about it before walking. Reality Check: There is no wrong path! Christianity suits your friend. Therefore Christianity is the right path for her. Christianity obviously doesn't suit you. Therfore Christianity is not the right path for you. Its your job to work out what is the right path for you. Different people have different needs, so different people turn to different religions and spiritual paths. In my view, and the view of many people on the boards, all Gods are one God, its just that different religions have different ways of viewing that God, in relation to what they NEED. So, some people view the God as a Father God, some see it as a Mother Goddess. Neither of these views are right or wrong. The only thing that would make the view wrong is if you held it and it didn't suit you. Kiama

coldsuns	30 Mar 2003
Kiama. I'm NOT saying Christian doesnt suits her! Christian suits does her. I'm trying to say that she shouldnt despies witchcrafts and witches. She shouldnt believe in all the mistakes and nonsense told by people around her that witches are evil. She only listen to the "witches are evil" but never thought of "witches are good". She dont even bother to think before she say,"Witches sucks". My previous post is a little confusing! Sorry~

angelwhispers	30 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by rota There's no quick way to 'win' your argument. Only the most open-minded among the churched will understand that Tarot is used to open to the Divine, to hear the Higher, to advance the soul, and to learn. The best way to show that you're all right is by the life you lead, the company you keep, and the fruits of your effort. Hardly anyone can argue with that. Thanks to all of you for your advice. I did a lot of 'soul searching' last night and have decided that it is not worth even discussing with him. Like many have said I will never change his mind and he will never change mine. It is only me that in the end will have to answer for the life I led to God, Jesus, the Divine, or whatever it is others believe and there will be no regrets. I know the life I lead is good. The opinion of one matters none compared to the love and acceptance I have from many. :)

angelwhispers	30 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by HudsonGray (Ok, Angelwhispers, how did the reading turn out?) The reading was fantastic, I'm disappointed that it was only 15 minutes long. I sat with a man that gives messages like John Edwards does. I have to say it was amazing as I just sat there and these different relatives came through to tell me things. Its definitely something I will never forget and would love to do again :)

Trogon	30 Mar 2003
Wow... a lot of responses in just one day! But then it is a topic which always brings a lot of comment. Angelwhispers, you've already gotten quite a bit of good advice (in my opinion - for whatever that might be worth ;) ), so I'll just post this link; http://bible.crosswalk.com/ This is a web site which allows you to do searches of bible text, read bibles, etc... all on line. It also allows you to compare the texts you find in something like 20 different translations of the bible. You might want to try a search on words like "divination" or "witch" for example in realtion to this specific topic. I consider myself to be a Christian. However, as has already been mentioned, my feeling is that humans have tended to really muck things up over the centuries. People have had a tendency to twist, warp, reshape "Christianity" to fit their own agendas, to help them achieve and maintain power over other people. Along with all of this, there have been many minor and major changes to the text of the bible along the way - through accident, incompetence as well as by intention. So... remember as you're reading the texts you find on your searches, to not just read a verse or two out of context. You need to see who the remarks are being addressed to and the reasons for the remarks. Also, be sure to look carefully at what kind of translation you're reading - I would recommend avoiding "paraphrased" (such as The Living Translation) texts or others which might have been translated with an agenda. Hope this helps...

Amythist	30 Mar 2003
My friend told me i am not going to hell even though i cast out spells do tarot readings heal people ect ect So i belive religous people talk rubbish. My personal opinion Do what ever you feel.

XLCR	30 Mar 2003
Just had to throw in The Three Wise Men...Astrologers and Psychic Hehe...You might also be interesteded in reading "Studies of the Human Aura" by Kuthumi channeled by Mark Prophet It talks about Christianity and how God has provided us "the word made flesh" not once but many times A quote: "Because only a few have probed beyond the finite world to discover an identity and a selfhood beyond the clay vessal, God has sent forth messengers, teachers, and prophets who have stood before them in bodies of flesh and blood. For as John said, the light shone in the darkness and the darkness comprehended it not. But "the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth." From century to century, when God desires to make known the presence of the light of the Christ and of the Word as the true messenger of EACH soul, he sends forth that light veiled in flesh. Until the impersonal light of the Father becomes the personalized light of the Christ in the sons and daughters of God, it is beyond the comprehension of humanity. When humanity can recognize the light as it is personified in the teacher, the prophet, the holy one, then and only then can they acknowledge that light as the light which also kindles the spark of divinity within themselves. Guided by the word and the example of the teacher, they come to recognize that spark as their very own individualized Christ Self who is the eternal messenger of the I AM THAT I AM." "And so teachers have come forth - prophets, avatars, Christed ones - carrying the torch of knowledge which they passed on to their disciples. Initiates of the laws of cosmos have surrounded the great masters who have appeared on every continent to keep the flame of life on behalf of humanity. Gautama Buddha, Confuciuos, and Lao-tzu, Enoch, Elijah, and Melchizedek, Zoroaster, Moses and Muhammad, Pythagoras, Socrates, Jesus, and Appollonius of Tyana...and the Divine Mother in her many incarnations - each at his point in time and space has guarded the ark of the covenant whereby God has secured for his sons and daughters the science and the art of partaking of the etheric essence of unseen worlds. Each has inspired souls dwelling in houses of clay to delve into the mysteries of creation, of preexistance and the afterlife, of the music and mathematics of every aspect of being, of pondering the intangible, the unknowable, the ineffable Word by the logic of the mind and the intuitive faculties of the heart. Thus teachers and prophets, messengers and visionaries have pointed the way out of the delemma of time and space, not failing to reveal the finite as an opportunity to become coordinates of infinity." Whew...so IMHO Jesus (and others) was a healer a prophet a diviner...born for the sole purpose of showing us that we REALLY could be like him...divine and aware of our connection to divinity in all it's ramifications...not just on a human level (kind, gentle, humble etc..), but a divine one as well (psychic, healers, diviners, prophets) did I miss anything...?

angelwhispers	30 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by XLCR Whew...so IMHO Jesus (and others) was a healer a prophet a diviner...born for the sole purpose of showing us that we REALLY could be like him...divine and aware of our connection to divinity in all it's ramifications...not just on a human level (kind, gentle, humble etc..), but a divine one as well (psychic, healers, diviners, prophets) did I miss anything...? Well said XLCR! Also thank you Trogon for the link to search bible text. I look forward to exploring that.

jonesy	30 Mar 2003
how does one burn in the lake of fire when it is only the third dimentional vehicle that has nerve endings and pain receptors of any kind... just a thought.

jonesy	30 Mar 2003
also keep in mind that as many ways as there are to decifer the meanings of a spread, so too will mankind decifer the meanings of "the word of god" most will make things benneficial for where it is they are in their current progression on the spiritual path. i do not begrudge anyone where they are, for in their quest back to reperfection, this is the period or life in which they are learning the difference between what is right, wrong or indifferent. live your life for you and allow no others to live it for you.

Amythist	30 Mar 2003
Why argue over a book. Just say yes sir yes sir 3 bags full sir and let it go over your head. Thanks for looking out for me. Is the best way to put it. My friend prays for me and my family every night. To make sure we dont go to hell. He prays for god to forgive me for me evil but i do it for the best. I cuddle him and say thankyou. I am a healer and i have healed his pain I have told him i am a witch and no one can change that. I belive in angels gods and godesses but when i cats out i am casting out on god him self. So why do my spells work (not for you to comment on) just have a open mind and say thankyou.

coldsuns	31 Mar 2003
It isnt a normal book. It is a book or maybe a talk by the Jesus. I think it worth talking about ^_^

jlbvt	31 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Mimers Coldsuns, Ask yourself. Do you really think that God would throw any of his children into a lake of fire? Mimi Look what he did to Job! (I don't believe in hell or a lake of fire)

jlbvt	31 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by angelwhispers Does anyone know roughly where in the bible it talks about fortune telling etc and how wrong it is? It's in the old Testament, I will look it up when i get a chance. But I don't believe it, there is so much in the Bible that is contradictory. The old Testament also says we should all sacrifice our first-born children to God. Your sister-in-law's husband probably wouldn't do that!

Kiama	31 Mar 2003
Here is something I wrote in an article about Tarot myths and superstitions... It answers your question. Usually, the quote 'suffer not a witch to live' is used to prove that Tarot is against Christianity, but it is easy to see where this claim falls down. For a start, not all who read Tarot are witches. The second quote used against Tarot is in Leviticus 19:26, where it says: 'do not practice divination or sorcery.' This is blatantly a law against any kind of divination, and on it's own it does justify the claim that Tarot is incompatible with Christianity. Yet when we read the two verses which follow that quote, we get a law against cutting hair and trimming beards, and another one against tattoos and piercings... Next time somebody uses Lev.19:26 against Tarot, ask them if they have their ears pierced! Of course, there is also plenty of divination, prophesy, and fortune-telling in the Bible, for instance Joseph, son of Jacob foretells the future by interpreting dreams in Genesis 37:1-45:28, and a man called Balaam utters five oracles in the name of God in Numbers 23:1-24:25. And of course we have the book of Revelations at the end of the Bible, which itself is pure prophesy. Despite all these things though, the view that Tarot is incompatible with Christianity has been passed on a fuelled by fundamentalist Christians to this day. Hope this helps Kiama

Amythist	31 Mar 2003
Originally posted by coldsuns It isnt a normal book. It is a book or maybe a talk by the Jesus. I think it worth talking about ^_^ You want to learn from the witches bible. From what that tells me my beleifs are true. My witches bible is my guide line. The bible to you is a guide line You know what is real in your heart folow it.

raeanne	31 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by jlbvt Look what he did to Job! (I don't believe in hell or a lake of fire) God didn't do anything to Job, He just agreed not to interfere. Satan is the one who did all the bad things to Job.

Amythist	31 Mar 2003
I have to agree with you on that one. my friend contacts spirits all the time and if it does exsist then i know where i am going when i die but as i dont i know i will still be here

angelwhispers	31 Mar 2003
Quote: originally posted by Kiama Despite all these things though, the view that Tarot is incompatible with Christianity has been passed on a fuelled by fundamentalist Christians to this day. I consider myself a christian and yet I read tarot. I don't believe I'm going to hell for it, in the beginning I went through the struggle of "is this wrong or not" only because of what was programmed into me by growing up in the church, but that has all passed. It frustrates me the small-mindness that some people have regarding anything different than what they know. I bought my first pendulum at the psychic fair I attended and struck up a conversation with the woman selling it about how some people criticize what they fear and are very willing to pass judgment on that which they don't know...she owns a metaphysical shop and says she has people coming in all the time and before they go beyond the door they ask her "will anything in here hurt me". Its amazing that people think handling a pendulum or shuffling tarot cards will bring some evil upon them. A funny side note...when talking to my husband about his sister's husband he said his response to him would be..."if my wife wants to dance naked under the moon and worship the devil then I support her" :) Now of course he was just joking...I don't worship the devil LOLOL :)

jonesy	31 Mar 2003
i have to agree but disagree with the whole satan thing. maybe one should call it a semantic satan as well as a semantic god. satan in my beliefs has been proven to be a culmination of all negative energies on the lower astral plane(like energies attracting like energies) also referred to as mythological hell. lucifer and satan are two different energies. just my opinion. but way too many people throughout history have used the exuse the devil made me do it, when indeed it was their twisted version of reality... getting stuck in the lower astral has a tendancy to realy screw things up. keep in mind the angels and devils as portrayed by artists, are the same type of labeling that the creators of the bible used to inflict its power struggles on a less educated public. now that our education and need to explore and know eveything that is said or written has come to a pinnacle in human evolution, some of the writings and misrepresentations or miscommunications, or mistranslations with the "book", are now coming under the deepest scrutiny, even by the church. again... my two cents/pence worth.

Kiama	31 Mar 2003
This thread has made me think about the Bible... (As if I don't do enough thinking already :rolleyes:) and I started to think about the different ways of looking at the Bible. There are two main ways: 1) Every single word in the Bible must be scrutinised and obeyed down to the last letter. (Fundamentalists take this view) 2) As long as we live by the essential message of the Bible, we're fine. (Quakers take this view) And I thought... Whist it is useful to study every single letter of the Bible, it does bring about some hefty contradictions, and of course some possibility of the 'Holier Than Thou' 'You're all going to hell cuz you're not in my church' view. When we just take the essential message of the Bible (basically, a summing up of the book!) and live by that, we are in less chance of contradicting ourselves and wronging others. I remember a 'joke' about a Rabbi, who's house was burgled one night. The two burglars forced the Rabbi to stand on one foot on a chair, and said, 'You must stay there, not moving until you tell us all of the scriptures'. The Rabbi promptly said, 'Love God' and got down from the chair. :D Kiama

azuremariposa	01 Apr 2003
what a lively discussion! ;) i've asked my husband about this (he was Pentacostal at one point in his life and has studied the bible tremendously) and he has pointed out many areas in which the bible discusses divination...the old "law" from leviticus mentioned previously was meant for those who practiced "divination" w/a malicious or evil intent (how this is possible, i'm unsure)...i've rarely encountered people who held the belief that Tarot was "evil" or "of the devil"...my mother-in-law (Pentacostal) was the one who pointed out the thing from leviticus, but then she asked for a reading...*shrugs* i guess the only thing i have to add to this discussion is that people are people, and they will believe what they want to believe, and so long as you are comfortable w/what you do (and you are not hurting others in any way) then all is good...brainwashed or not, most christians (and catholics) are pretty set in their beliefs...why bother trying to change them? wish them peace and move on...:) many blessings to all...

raeanne	01 Apr 2003
Hi all, For a good search of the Bible, go to: http://bible.gospelcom.net/ Some good words to search for are: divination sorcery witch There are several different translations of the Bible that you can pick from. The New International Version is the default version. It also helps to know if a book is in the Old Testament or the New Testament. Sometimes an Old Testament idea is changed in the New Testament. For example, if you search for "eye tooth" you will get all of the "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" references. All of the Old Testament verses support this concept but the New Testament book of Matthew says not to do that. Anyway, this web site is a good reference for finding stuff in the Bible.

Minderwiz	01 Apr 2003
Coming back to the original question and the problem that bible bashers are fixed in their ideas, I agree that not discussing the issue is one of the best strategies, especially if there is a relative involved - otherwise there is family grief. I have tried wasting the time of Jehovah's Witnesses and others by arguing with them long enough to prevent them worrying the neighbours, especially when I feel a little mischievous. One tack to take in these particular circumstances is not only to point out the large number of prophets who were in effect 'fortune tellers' but also that God Himself is the biggest fortune teller in the Bible - from such things as telling Moses that he would not live to see the promised land to writing his prophecies on palace walls (adding defacing public property to the sin of fortune telling). Tell them 'If its good enough for God then its good enough for me' and then refuse to carry on the conversation any more and leave.

Logiatrix	01 Apr 2003
angelwhispers, you are truly blessed with a spouse who is so supportive of your interests... that is what is really important, anyway: those near and dear to us. personally, i want my loved ones to be comfortable with my passions, and everyone else--well, i don't give a rat's patooty what everyone else thinks! ;) you're going to be just fine, with GOD and your husband on your side... :)

angelwhispers	02 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by metaz angelwhispers, you are truly blessed with a spouse who is so supportive of your interests... that is what is really important, anyway: those near and dear to us. personally, i want my loved ones to be comfortable with my passions, and everyone else--well, i don't give a rat's patooty what everyone else thinks! ;) you're going to be just fine, with GOD and your husband on your side... :) You're right metaz, that is all that really matters and I'm thankful every day for the moment that man came into my life. :)

vijeno	02 Apr 2003
Hmmm.... it just came to me... I would soooooo love to have one of my former christian pals fixed to a chair and having to listen... or.... even better... just watch them grow silent and listening because they just can't deny my perfect, logical, straightforward arguments... BUT, alas, it isn't so. I'll have to deal with reality, I'm afraid. ;-) vijeno

The Where in the bible does it say.... thread was originally posted on 29 Mar 2003 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.