Dark Night of the Soul: Mystical Experience

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 09 Apr 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kiama	09 Apr 2003
I've been thinking about this subject alot in the past year or two, and I've studied it a bit aswell. I chose to do the Hanged Man card for the Second Aeclectic Collaborative Tarot deck project, because for me, the Hanged Man is the mystic, going through his 'Dark Night of the Soul'. I thought I'd write about this, cuz it is very interesting. Everybody's always saying how all the religions are so different. But when we look at mystical experience, it is amazing to see how similar the process is, despite religion. St John of the Cross wrote a beautiful powm, called 'Dark Night of the Soul', which tells of his mystical union with God. In it, it describes the union as a very sexual, erotic thing (Which is understandable since he's 'joining' with God) but he also describes the darkness he has to go through to get there. William James published a book called the Varieties of Religious Experience in 1912, which states the characteristics and stages of a mystical experience, which transcends religion. He also noted the 'Dark Night' aspect of the experience, which seems to directly precede the mystical union itself. Now, let's look at the Buddha. He got sick and tired of trying to ahieve enlightenment though other ways, so he sat down under the Bodhi tree, and vowed never to move until he achieved enlightenment. After a while, a jealous/angry deity (I think it was called Maya or something) tried to stop him achieving it, so he basically threw everything he could at the Buddha, tempting ladies, an army trying to kill him, etc... But throughout all this, Buddha remained resilient and through the ordeal, he resisted, and finally achieved Enlightenment. Now, let's look at Odin. In order to achieve knowledge of the Runes, he was bound to a 'windswept tree', (The World Tree, Yggdrasil) for 9 days and 9 nights, without food, water, shelter... He was literally hung between the worlds, and finally, after his terrible ordeal, he achieved the knowledge of the Runes. Now, th emost interesting one has to be Jesus. His mystical union with God, his Father, came after he was crucified and rose from the dead. Not only did Jesus have to go through agony on the cross, a slow, painful, humiliating death, but he had to descend into Hell to redeem the souls who had gone before him. He went through his dark night then. After that, he achieved union with God. The interesting thingh about the Crucifixion was that Jesus, like Odin, was suspended between heaven and Earth. Now look at the Hanged Man card. Think about these two mystical experiences, and look at the Hanged Man card again. Ahhhh.... Interesting. The Hanged Man, as described by Crowley, is also hung between the worlds. :eek: Veeery interesting... St John of the Cross describes it, St Theresa of Avila describes it, the three above mentioned describe it, and many other mystics from around the world describe this 'Dark Night' experience, where everything is dark, suffering, and pain, but aftewards, they achieve some form of mystical union with God. It does seem that although religions differ, the experience of, and union with, the Divine is similar, and this strikes me as very... Good. Just some interesting observations... Kiama

firemaiden	09 Apr 2003
Keep the observations coming Kiama! Dark night, descente aux enfers, wintering soul, ... any personal experiences to relate to it?

Aerin	09 Apr 2003
Kiama, the more I have looked into other religions the more I have found similarities. (I do also like to look for difference, since if everything is reduced to the same thing I may decrease my opportunities for learning so I try to bear them in mind even when my being is shouting Look! It's the same!!!!!!) I haven't looked at this aspect before, and what you say is really interesting. Thanks so much for posting, I shall think on this more. Aerin ps William James is one of my favourite authors (and he writes like an angel, his brother was Henry James btw).

cjtarot	09 Apr 2003
Kiama, Your knowledge and insight always amazes me... Blessings and keep teaching us .. You are truly a master.. CJ

Alissa	09 Apr 2003
Fabulous observations Kiama! You're making me think ... let me try to unravel what your words are kicking around inside me and stirring up. In literature classes (ages ago) I remember studying the Dark Night of the Soul as a literary device. The character would often be seen prostrate, literally laid low (by God, circumstances, etc.), only to rise up again a different person, forever changed. (The two most immediate examples that come to mind are Milton's Lucifer, who is cast down to Hell and lands there on his back, before rising up to become the terrible angel we know today. The other, Gone With the Wind's Scarlet O'Hara, who lies down to scavage for food in the ruined fields of Tera, and rises to pledge, "As god as my witness ... I will never be hungry again.") These characters, when faced with the most extreme diversity and humbled before God, rose up from their prostrate position only to realize a new aspect of their own characters. BUT, you take this to an entirely new and exciting realm by comparing it to Buddha, Odin and Jesus. Only Buddha was "grounded," the other's were suspended, like you mention, which correlates directly to the willful suspension of the Hanged Man. How do these differences feel to you? Do they relate? It seems like in all the cases, profound spiritual knowledge is still gained. Mostly, I'm hoping to keep you talking about your own thoughts, so please do :D.

Moongold	09 Apr 2003
Dear Kiama, I like your comparison of the Hanged Man with the metaphorical crucified Christ. Are you also comparing the Hanged Man experience with the "dark night of the soul"? It is a very nice comparison. The terms mystical experience, spiritual experience and conversion experience are often used inter-changeably and I wonder what you mean by "mystical". Many people would understand a "spiritual experience" in the same way as a mystical experience. More comments please!

Kiama	09 Apr 2003
Thanks for your comments guys! I'm sitting here thinking 'Wow! You're all so damn intelligent!' :D Moongold: Yep, I am seeing the Hanged Man experience as a 'Dark Night of the Soul' experience. I'll post here what I wrote about it in my descrition for the Hanged Man card in teh SACT project: Quote: Ever since I began studying Tarot nine years ago, I have felt strangely drawn to the Hanged Man card. Why on Earth has he been hanged the wrong way up? Does he actually want to be there? I asked myself, getting no answers but knowing that there was something more to this card that wasn't being shown by the image. It wasn't until last year however that I finally got some answers, and they came from where I least expected them: My studies of religious experience and mysticism. To me, the Hanged Man is a mystic, a spiritual seeker, the archetypal Wounded-Healer. He has placed himself in a position whereby he can gain new insights into himself and the Universe, and he has chosen the mystic's path: The path that willingly accepts the challenges and sacrifices in order to gain something better, something sublime, something wholly spiritual. Throughout the world we find stories and myths relating to these mystics: Stories of Jesus, Mohammed, the Buddha, St John of the Cross, St Teresa of Avila, and Odin. Mysticism transcends all religions and provides a wonderful link between them, despite their often-conflicting opinions on other things. As shown by the 19th-century philosopher, William James, in his book 'The Varieties of Religious Experience', the mystic experience distinct stages in their mystical experience, all of which have certain features to them. The final stage of the mystical experiences is the attainment of Nirvana, to use the Buddhist term or the realisation of the Universe, achieving 'Oneness' or some form of ecstatic union with God. But before this joyous stage of the experience, the mystic must first enter what St John of the Cross so beautifully called the 'Dark Night of the Soul': The challenging, fearful stage, which ultimately tests the mystic. Thelemites call it 'Crossing the Abyss', for Buddha it was the temptations during his meditation at the Bodhi tree, for the Christ is was his suffering and humiliation on the cross, and for Odin it was when he hung from the World Tree for nine nights, as told in the Havamal: "Wounded I hung on a windswept gallows For nine long night, Pierced by a spear, pledged to Odin, Offered myself to myself. The wisest know not from whence spring The roots of that ancient rood (Tree) They gave me no bread, They gave me no mead, I looked down; with a loud cry I took up the Runes, From that tree I fell." As the Havamal shows, Odin's 'Dark Night of the Soul' culminated in his attainment of the complete knowledge of the Runes. Christ's ended in his resurrection and attainment of a place in heaven at his Father's right hand, and Buddha's ended with his enlightenment. Symbolism When creating this Hanged Man card, I tried to symbolically and pictorially portray the three aforementioned 'Dark Nights' of Buddha, Christ, and Odin, simply because their stories epitomise one of the main meanings of this card: Sacrificing something in order to gain something better. Often this gain is in the spiritual realm, but when concerning mundane matters it indicates a more material gain. This is shown symbolically in the card by the red rose which has blossomed in the heart of the person who is meditating: He/she has put themselves into the situation where they can experience the ‘Dark Night’ which they hope will lead to something greater, and by doing so, they have indeed achieved what they set out to do. The fact that the person is meditating is a reference to the Buddha, and the tree by which he/she sits is an Ash tree: A reference to the fact that it is a long-held tradition that the tree Odin hung from, the World Tree, was an Ash. Upon this tree you will see an inscription carved in Runes, another nod towards the Odinic tradition, and if you were to translate it into our alphabet you would read the Hebrew words: “Eloi, eloi, lama sabacthani,” – “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”- The words spoken by Christ on the cross during his Dark Night of the soul. Another reason why the person in the card is meditating is because it represents contemplation, and a suspension of action. The suspension could be forced upon an individual by external conditions, but ultimately it gives them opportunity for thought, which leads to the finding of the solution to the inaction. Indeed, Buddha chosen to simply sit and meditate non-stop until he got a conclusion to his problem: Enlightenment. Card Meaning You may have noticed by this time that the background of the card is upside down, and in fact the only thing in the card that is the right way up is the mystic. This has many connotations, and it is not just by accident that the background is upside down: Another meaning of the Hanged Man card is the seeing of things in a different light, from a whole new perspective. The upside-down-ness of the card shows how the Hanged Man has changed the way he perceives everything. It is not really the external world, which has changed however: Only his perception of it. Throughout the ages, mystics have been viewed as outsiders, weirdoes, as well as very spiritually aware people. One thing I have put into the deeper meaning behind the upside down background is the wondering: ‘Who is seeing reality the right way up: The mystic, or those who see the mystic as topsy-turvy?’ It begs the question of what one needs to do in order to see things straight, in order to uncover the true nature of reality… One of the possible answers to that question is given in the meaning of this card: Search within yourself. This may seem very similar to the ninth card of the Tarot deck, the Hermit, as both contain elements of the spiritual search. The difference is however, that the Hanged Man searches wholly within himself (Hence the red rose in the otherwise uncoloured man) whilst the Hermit’s search continues to the outside world, hence the shining lantern being held out by the Hermit in traditional Tarot decks. When Aleister Crowley wrote his ‘Book of Thoth’, a handbook for use alongside his famous deck, the Thoth deck, painted by Lady Frieda Harris, he made a point of talking about the nature of sacrifice in his description of the Hanged Man card. It is worth mentioning this, since there can be big misunderstandings about the nature of sacrifice, especially amongst people who understand it in the Biblical sense of the term. Sacrifice in the Hanged Man card is not redemptive: It is not the offering of something to a supreme deity in order to gain favour with the deity or receive something in return. Sacrifice here is simply the cutting away of the un-necessary bits from life, the bits that hold one back from attaining what one wants to attain. Most people do not want to attain anything like the Hanged Man, but for people like the Hanged Man, it is important to cut away the more animal side of one’s nature so that one isn’t distracted from one’s spiritual purpose. So in essence, this sacrifice is less giving something up, and more getting rid of the unwanted bits. As such, the Hanged Man card can also be seen as a re-evaluation of life: The sudden need to stop what you are doing and sit still for a while and work out what on Earth is going on here. It’s basically a spiritual coffee break. Although, as you can see from that description, there are other aspects to the Hanged Man, but whilst doing the card, I ended up focussing on the 'Dark Night' aspect the most. The great thing is (And I've only just realised this!) that even Disney movies are using this 'cycle' of Dark Night to Enlightenment: You never see a Disney movie without some sort of dark part in it, where it seems like all is lost and the good guys can never win this one... But then they do, miraculously they do, because of some inner trait they have. I can't help but think of Sleeping Beauty here, where the Prince has to fight through all the brambles surrounding the castle, and then fight Melificent in the form of a huge black dragon... It all seems so impossible, but he manages to win and save Sleeping Beauty (Briar Rose). I can't help thinking this analogous to Jesus and Odin and Buddha... If they hadn't had the resilience, the perserverence, etc, then I'm not sure they would have pulled through their Dark Nights. Kiama

Ravenswing	09 Apr 2003
Okay guys, hang on for a ride-- I've compiled a book, LIBER 128-- the book of the words of man. An exercise in non-linear thinking of sorts, it applies gematria-- a Hebrew numerology-- to the English language. Very briefly, words/terms with same numeration are considered to be inter-related in some way. It's up to you to find the way.... All words/terms are given a triplet of values-- the total, the vowel, the consonant... Unlike traditional numerology, the values are NOT collapsed. Dark night of the soul 213 66 147. This is the only phrase with the number 213. But the inner number 66 , the 'mystical meaning' of the phrase includes: ancient abyss freedom lost myth parabola edge dancer In my system, the parabola represents the AIN SOPH AUR-- the 'closest' of the negative veils-- also known as "unbound light". And the Edge Dancer is another title for The Fool... There is an allowable + or - 1 'fudge factor' which expands the mystical meaning of 'the dark night of the soul' to embrace: the hanged man soul renew kether alchemy alphabet Contemplation on this group of words should be quite enlightening. Under 147, the apparent outer guise of the word/phrase, the way in which it manifests itself, 'sixth water' is found... This represents the heart of the tree of life-- tiphareth-- expressed through the emotions, the level of cups. Tiphareth is the sephirah where the sacraficed gods are found-- Christ and Odin formost among them... count numbers speak words fly well Ravenswing

raeanne	09 Apr 2003
Hi all, Just a couple more musings: Many Native American tribes had similar rites of passage ceremonies. During the Horse Ceremony, the young men would have bear claws dug into their chest muscles and then they were hoisted up so they were suspended between “heaven and Earth”. Ouch! Other tribes would have “vision quest” rites of passage where the young adults-to-be would go without food, water, shelter, etc., until a vision appeared. Some type of physical ordeal that leads to a higher spiritual understanding seems to be a common theme throughout the world. Fast and pray, three days in the belly of a fish, wandering in the wilderness, . . . . . . . . Think of how many other movies have the “Dark Night to Enlightenment” theme: Dorothy has to go to the witches castle to get the broomstick before she can go home. Frodo has to enter Mordor to destroy the Ring and save Middle Earth. Luke Skywalker and company have to go into the Deathstar to destroy it. Etc. Etc. This is an interesting thread!

firemaiden	09 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Ravenswing 'mystical meaning' of the phrase includes: ancient abyss freedom lost myth parabola edge dancer the hanged man soul renew kether alchemy alphabet Okay Ravenswing, I can't pretend to understand how you arrived here...(!!) but the result is interesting. lost in the ancient abyss of myth, the edge dancer as hanged man renews his soul...

Aoife	09 Apr 2003
No gain without pain..... the suggestion has been around since time immemorial. And history suggests that many have believed it, built their lives upon the belief. But there's no evidence that it is a universal truth. Religions have used the concept quite successfully to effect control. Suffering is necessary, good will come out of it, the path to achievement is a steep one...... Trouble is, it isn't always true. Sometimes there is no enlightenment only despair. Sometimes we look at others and think 'why them? What have they done to deserve it?' Enlightenment.... despair.... a two-way street. Many of us reach a point in life when we ask... plead... 'there must be more than this'. But what if, for some, there isn't. What if true enlightenment lies in the mundane? What is all else is just a figment of our imagination? A cosmic joke to keep us coming back for more?

Moongold	09 Apr 2003
I agree, Aoife, that sometimes there seems no way of understanding suffering. Meaning can only given by the person experiencing the suffering. Moongold

firemaiden	09 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Aoife What if true enlightenment lies in the mundane? What is all else is just a figment of our imagination? A cosmic joke to keep us coming back for more? My dear Aoife, it IS all just a figment of our imagination, that is for sure. I am not sure we would be even aware of existing if our imagination did not constantly participate with reality!

Kiama	10 Apr 2003
Ravenswing: Your post was truly enlightening! And thankyou Firemaiden for constructing such a beautiful sentence from the words discovered. Goddess bless Gematria! :D In a way I suppose the Dark Night/Hanged Man experience is some form of purgatory. The idea of being hung between the worlds very much points to this, since purgatory is often described as being in neither worlds, just hanging there in between them... Waiting. No gain without pain... It reminds me of childbirth. The mother-to-be has to go through what I see as the ultimate test of endurance... All the pain, the long waits... And in the end, her child is born. On the nature of suffering which Aoife bought up... The theologian/philosopher John Hick write about the Problem of Evil, claiming to have solved it, at least in his worldview. He wrote of a 'Vale of Soulmaking', which is basically him saying that suffering occurs so we can overcome it, thereby growing in understanding and wisdom, and growing closer to a Christ-like existence. (He was Christian, hance the Christ-like stuff). It again reminds me of the Hanged Man and Dark Night, since suffering is undergone, in order to be overcome, and through overcoming, the mystic finally reaches a God-like/Christ-like/Bodhisattva awareness/existence. Raenne raises some great points about initiation ceremonies... I was actually gonna post about them, but she's done such a great job! I'll just mention one I heard about... It's probably supposed to be secret knowing the magical orders, but I'll tell you anyway. (Whoever told me was breaking oaths if it is true! })) I think it's the OTO, might be some other magical order with initials as a name.... But they have what I think (If I remember correctly) an auto-erotic death... Initiation can be done by basically getting the initiate, putting him in a room full of very skilled priestesses, and they... *Ahem* 'please' him until he is so worn out that he goes into a death-like state, whereupon he is supposed to receive his initiation. There was a rumour that the Druids used drowning-resusitation in their initiation rites, which I am not too sure about due to the total lack of evidence for it, but it is worth mentioning anyway... They would basically drown an initiate, and then resusitate him, and this was supposed to not only cause him to be mystically more aware, but was symbolic of his rebirth as a Druid. It seems suffering and pain can be very important to mysticism and spirituality... Kiama

Kiama	18 Apr 2003
I've just realise danother similarity between the Buddha's Dark Night, and one of Jesus' other Dark Nights: His 40 days in the desert... When Buddha sat beneath the Bodhi Tree, he was tempted by Maya. When Jesus fasted in the desert for 40 days and nights, he was tempted by the Devil... I think of lots of other accounts of mystical experience that involve the mystic overcoming some sort of temptation, and it seems to me that this is an important feature of mystical experience, encompassed by the Dark Night: When the mystic is at his/her lowest, when they are feeling their worst, when they are weakest, then they are tempted... Is this why we see the Hanged Man (The Mystic's initial Dark Night's beginning) followed by Death (Death to his old self, very similar to teh Hanged Man) Temperence (New realisation giving a glimmer of hope) and then the Devil and Tower, which both basically knock you for six, tempting you, testing your beliefs, breaking false beliefs down... These cards in the Tarot deck are often the most feared and represent the most difficult things to overcome, but afterwards, we see the Star, the ray of hope in the sky, and the prospect of healing... We are enlightened. Is temptation an essential part of mystical experience leading to enlightenment? Kiama

zorya	18 Apr 2003
kiama, have you ever read gary zukov's 'seat of the soul'? in it he discusses the 'luciferic principle'. ( lucifer as in light bringer, btw ;) ) in a nutshell, the idea is that temptations are there to teach. they lead us to choices. each time we make the choice toward love and growth, we raise our energy, grow spiritually and become more enlightened. when we make the choice not to grow, we remain where we are. most likely we will recieve the same kind of choices/temptations over and over until we learn from them.

Alex	22 Apr 2003
Kiama I have often thought about the analogy between the Hanged Man and Jesus Christ. I think it was in a book "The road less travelled" by R(?). Peck that I read something about highly spiritual persons often dying after years in agony and that would be a "final trial" to test that person's faith in God. I can never forgett a friend with mom though, who died in agony after a untreatable breast cancer. That woman's dedication to the church and faith in God had always amazed the ones around her. When she was almost dying, mom took me to visit her. She was unconsolable, among other things, in excruciating pain... and wondering, had god left her. I concluded that day that god either does not exist or s(he) is very evil. Today I just think humankind has lost the sense, keeping agonizing people alive to see the next sunset just for the sake of it. Not God, but we have lost the sense of compassion and touch with reality. Shall not be so dark, the dark night of the soul, as we have made it. Alex.

Kiama	25 Apr 2003
Oooh goodie! *Kiama jumps around excitedly* We're getting into the Problem of Evil territory now... Yes, the Dark Night of the Soul concept certainly explains somewhat why we have suffering on this Earth, and how that suffering can co-exist with what we see as an all-loving Deity. John Hick wrote about this, creating the concept of Earth as a 'Vale of Soulmaking', where, during life, we face many obstacles and pains, and that only once we overcome these evils, can we grow closer to what he called a Christ-like existence (He was Christian after all!) Why do we suffer? Why do we face so much darkness? Ah, Hick would reply, so we can more fully understand God. BUT. (There's always a but!) This theory does assume that without going through immense pain and suffering, one cannot understand and become like 'Christ'. I know of many people who are some of the 'holiest' people I know, who are constanty maintaining a Christ-like existence, but they have never experienced true suffering or pain. And as a good friend of mine once said, 'The infant does not need to know pain before it can know the love of the mother's breast.' Is the Dark Night essential to mystical experience? I'm not sure, though it seems that for most people Dark Nights are the prerequisites for mystical experience... But logically, I'm not sure... Kiama

The Dark Night of the Soul: Mystical Experience thread was originally posted on 09 Apr 2003 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.