Judgement

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 04 Apr 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Icarus	04 Apr 2003
I would say it is impossible to live without making judgements. Judgement and opinion are interlinked, along with moral outlook. I would suggest that we will never agree on judgement. Each of us will bring our own judgements to the fore, discussing judgement. There is external and internal judgement. By external I would say the judgement of distances when driving, when to break etc.. The other internal judgements are perhaps far more in the eye of the beholder. Judgement is a small 9 letter word , yet its a key to the world we live in. (perhaps my judgement of judgement is wrong :-);-)

Major Tom	04 Apr 2003
I think a discussion of the concepts of judgement is an excellent idea. First, please allow me to post the definitions I find in my Oxford Concise English Dictionary so we can at least have an authoritative reference: judge, v.t. & i. Pronounce sentence on (person) in court of justice; try (cause); decide (question); decide, decree, (that etc.); form opinion about, estimate, (person etc. by his deeds etc.); criticise, censure (~ not that ye be not ~d); conclude, consider, suppose, (thing to be, that, etc., from or by data); act as judge; form a judgement (of thing etc.) judgement, n. Sentence of court of justice; the last ~ (by God at the end of the world); misfortune viewed as sign of divine displeasure, as it is a ~ on you for getting up late; criticism; opinion, estimate, as in my ~; critical faculty, discernment; good sense; ~ day (of God's final ~) What follows is my opinion - you are more than welcome to disagree - but you're extremely unlikely to change my mind. }) Judging and judgement are required by each and every one of us on a daily basis. We all consider our various options and apply our discernment to make our daily decisions. If you did not apply your judgement how would you decide when to get up in the morning, when to go to sleep at night and indeed even what to do in between? This process also applies to how we deal with each other. Each and every person is unique - a completely separate individual - each with her/his own needs and desires. We cannot treat everyone in the same manner and expect each person to receive an equal opportunity in our dealings. In order to treat each individual fairly - we must apply our judgement. Would you treat an 80 year old widow the same as a teenage boy? Would you treat a person who was starving the same as someone who just rose from the table? Of course not, you would apply your judgement and treat the person - the individual - with the appropriate response according to the individual's need. There are those who believe that life is a game and others still that believe life is deadly serious. Can we give these individuals an equal opportunity by treating them the same? I submit not - their very beliefs will prevent them from listening to certain concepts. And thus it is with every shade of grey. Was it Karl Marx who said, "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need"? Without application of judgement how are we to determine right from wrong? How are we to learn and grow? It is no mistake that Judgement is a card in the major arcana of the tarot or that the card's meanings include a realisation, an awakening. Right now, I judge it's time for another glass of red wine.

miranda	04 Apr 2003
okay i am still struggliing with what i believe & what i dont believe.. but i think that is a lifelong struggle so im sure it will never end & im sure my view will change many times but this book i got recently really sums up what i feel right now in my life book;journey of a soul by john roger chapter 4 making it a joyful journey there are very few things within our world that are inherentlty good or bad except as we label them.If you are to stay freee & clear it becomes important to place out as few judgements as possible to maintain as neutral an attiude as possible. If you have had a lousy day & u call it a lousy day be aware that you are placing that attitude*lousy* back on your consciousness because you are going to harvest that. skip paragraph skip paragraph good and bad are not absolutes & therefore they might be called illusions all that is reallu happening with a stock*for example* is that it may be going up or down . If u say a stock is BAD & it starts to rise again it may bw difficult to get back on the bandwagon & take full adavantage of of its beneficial rise cuz you will have already labeled it within yourself & you will have to defend your position . For you it will never be good If you just observe which stock is up & which is down & follow the trends then you are in a free postion, ready to take full advantage of any opporunity u percieve with any stock on the market . you have not blocked any possibility & the channels are all open.. also a very similar process happens inside you with other things If you label some things as bad & then they start shifting & bringinf forth something for u it may be difficult to participate in them because you have placed yourself against them......... it goes into it more .. but this was the jist of it:)

firemaiden	04 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by miranda ...there are very few things within our world that are inherently good or bad except as we label them.If you are to stay freee & clear it becomes important to place out as few judgements as possible to maintain as neutral an attitude as possible. A rousting philosophical battle is to be had following a quote like this over the nature of good and bad, is it relative or inalienable? What is inherently good and bad? In our post-christian democratised world we tend to over relativise everything.... we wish to tolerate everything.... here is a trivial example: it used to be that there was good music and bad music. Now there is just lots of different kinds of music, and if you pass judgement on some one elses tastes, you will very likely start a mini war. Personally, I have a difficult time with this, because I am still stuck in the 19th century, and I happen to espouse the elitist philosophy that something which has been carefully architected and requires great skill, and whose form has evolved over hundreds of years has a higher value instrinsically than something thrown together from scratch. Those are my personal prejudices.... not wishing to begin a war anew (have done with that for the moment) (I know my opinion is offensive) I would like to just use this as an example of the kind of philosophical difference between : A) seeing something as completely relative i.e. that there is no such thing as good and bad music, just tastes... and B) establishing clear values based on definable critieria: i.e. Beethoven is better than snoop doggy dog... because of more interesting harmonies, rhythms, counterpoint, structural development, instrumentation, on and on.... With respect to ethics -- the attempt to judge good actions from bad actions, philosophers will be haggling forever, and trying to understand if a universal ethos can ever be established. The closest I think we can come to agreeing is to say, what goes against life, is "bad", and what promotes it, is "good" . Of course then come the question of whose life? So some cultures have decided adultery is bad, and that stoning someone to death for adultery is good.... hm Some cultures have decided that murder is bad, but murdering the murderer is good.... hmmmm Someone had as their quote: if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.. I spent a great deal of my life trying to accomodate all philosphies and understand all points of view. It think there comes a time, when we say: okay, I have seen the gamut, now I have decided to stand for this... For example, again, have decided to stand up for classical music. I have taken a stand. It will alienate many people. I see it as my duty. Once we establish our values, and take a stand, it is inevitable that conflicts arise. Of course! But is it better never to take a stand to avoid conflict? I think not. But the stand one takes should not be a knee-jerk reaction, but the result of deep and long reflection on experience...

miranda	04 Apr 2003
[quote]Originally posted by firemaiden [b]A rousting philosophical battle is to be had following a quote like this over the nature of good and bad, is it relative or inalienable? What is inherently good and bad? In our post-christian democratised world we tend to over relativise everything.... we wish to tolerate everything.... here is a trivial example: it used to be that there was good music and bad music. Now there is just lots of different kinds of music, and if you pass judgement on some one elses tastes, you will very likely start a mini war. Personally, I have a difficult time with this, because I am still stuck in the 19th century, and I happen to espouse the elitist philosophy that something which has been carefully architected and requires great skill, and whose form has evolved over hundreds of years has a higher value instrinsically than something thrown together from scratch. Those are my personal prejudices.... not wishing to begin a war anew (have done with that for the moment) (I know my opinion is offensive) I would like to just use this as an example of the kind of philosophical difference between : -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have only read this far but felt a need to respond now.... your opinion is DEFINATELY not offensive:) not to me at least my husband & i are the complete opposite ends of the spectrum on many issues such as this i love to talk to him about it.. i find that talking to him & hearing his views although i disagree many times helps me to open up my OWN views.. & that is beautiful to me:) so never worry about getting bashed by me cuz of your views.. ok off to read the rest:)

miranda	04 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden A rousting philosophical battle is to be had following a quote such thing as good and bad music, just tastes... and B) establishing clear values based on definable critieria: i.e. Beethoven is better than snoop doggy dog... because of more interesting harmonies, rhythms, counterpoint, structural development, instrumentation, on and on.... With respect to ethics -- the attempt to judge good actions from bad actions, philosophers will be haggling forever, and trying to understand if a universal ethos can ever be established. The closest I think we can come to agreeing is to say, what goes against life, is "bad", and what promotes it, is "good" . Of course then come the question of whose life? So some cultures have decided adultery is bad, and that stoning someone to death for adultery is good.... hm Some cultures have decided that murder is bad, but murdering the murderer is good.... hmmmm Someone had as their quote: if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.. I spent a great deal of my life trying to accomodate all philosphies and understand all points of view. It think there comes a time, when we say: okay, I have seen the gamut, now I have decided to stand for this... For example, again, have decided to stand up for classical music. I have taken a stand. It will alienate many people. I see it as my duty. Once we establish our values, and take a stand, it is inevitable that conflicts arise. Of course! But is it better never to take a stand to avoid conflict? I think not. But the stand one takes should not be a knee-jerk reaction, but the result of deep and long reflection on experience... okay may i ask u a question? you love classical music,, what happens if some day you are in a car & u hear a new snoop song that may not be classical but you still are caught by it & u still happen to like it? or how do u know 5 years.. 2 weeks that u may ot just be a dif person? like dif things.. not like the old things so much.. why put a a barriar on your growing? why not stay flexible so anything can get in?

Ravenswing	04 Apr 2003
Okay.... Yes, this can get quite heavy... I think it's pretty well established that we're going to make judgements of some sort or another-- with both small and Capital 'J'. Inevitable. And I don't think this discussion is dealing with the small letter judgement. The " That distance appears to be six feet" judgement. A 'proper discernment of facts' type of judgement. This said, I believe the **real** question to be: "What do you do with judgements?" Problem with any kind of value system is just that: it's a value system. It is a personal system based upon experience. It is my belief that, this being so, no two systems will be exactly alike-- but they will have lesser or greater areas of intersection; the "I agree with you" areas. Society is built upon these "I agree with you"s-- they are shared by the members of the group, and called laws. But that's another story... I feel that judgements with a capital "J" deal with the more important (which, once more, will vary from person to person, system to system) areas of non-intersection. I don't believe we "pass judgement" on things we agree upon. What does one do with judgements? Again, we're back to the personal value system. There will be no clear-cut answer to this until and unless we share all experiences, become all viewpoints... sounds like a god (no gender discrimination intended here) perspective. Which reminds me of a quote-- a statement made by one who, in the judgement of many, had a god perspective: Judge not, lest ye be judged. fly well Raven

firemaiden	04 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by miranda okay may i ask u a question? you love classical music,, what happens if some day you are in a car & u hear a new snoop song that may not be classical but you still are caught by it & u still happen to like it? or how do u know 5 years.. 2 weeks that u may ot just be a dif person? like dif things.. not like the old things so much.. why put a a barriar on your growing? why not stay flexible so anything can get in? This will get me in trouble.... for answering... my opinions on this are very strong, and are based in a lot of hurt. But I do not mean to offend, it is just how I feel. I feel that the culture I love is under attack from all sides. I feel that the intention of certain kinds of music is one I cannot accept, and I feel that it hurts society, it certainly hurts me. And though I have made an attempt to accept and understand other kinds of music, after several years of trying, I had to just say, who am I trying to kid... I really hate this... When you love something so strongly, a passion for classical music is not something that goes away, its gets stronger and stronger.... it is not about old versus new, and it is not about barriars, for me, it is about protecting something very precious, and very endangered... it is really about a whole way of life... to me the gesture of classical music is spiritual, the intent is to create beauty, wonder, magic, mystery, to move and lift the spirit. Sometimes it takes a bit of initiation to really be able to access that beauty... people throw it off and poo poo it, because they are scared of anything requiring a bit more effort... or a little involvement.... in our throw away culture, it is easier to pick up a big mac than maigret de canard... But if we take the time, the maiget de canard is magical! and the big mac is merely well... edible...(one hopes it is edible).

miranda	04 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden This will get me in trouble.... for answering... my opinions on this are very strong, and are based in a lot of hurt. But I do not mean to offend, it is just how I feel. I feel that the culture I love is under attack from all sides. I feel that the intention of certain kinds of music is one I cannot accept, and I feel that it hurts society, it certainly hurts me. And though I have made an attempt to accept and understand other kinds of music, after several years of trying, I had to just say, who am I trying to kid... I really hate this... When you love something so strongly, a passion for classical music is not something that goes away, its gets stronger and stronger.... it is not about old versus new, and it is not about barriars, for me, it is about protecting something very precious, and very endangered... it is really about a whole way of life... to me the gesture of classical music is spiritual, the intent is to create beauty, wonder, magic, mystery, to move and lift the spirit. Sometimes it takes a bit of initiation to really be able to access that beauty... people throw it off and poo poo it, because they are scared of anything requiring a bit more effort... or a little involvement.... in our throw away culture, it is easier to pick up a big mac than maigret de canard... But if we take the time, the maiget de canard is magical! and the big mac is merely well... edible...(one hopes it is edible). well i do see your point:) & to snoopys fans im sure some at least, their feelings are as strong as yours.. :) ps i also wanted to add in my previous post that that <> this does not have to take away any bit of your love of classical music

skytwig	04 Apr 2003
Is there such a thing as flexible judgement? Narrow-mindedness is locked & bolted attitude that has created amazing forms of harm on this planet. Open-mindedness, however, enables us to change our minds, to consider possibilities, to grow & learn & change. Is it possible that we learn to, yes, develop values and ideas and even opinions, but can we learn to be flexible with those, so called judgements and arrive at the place of Not Really Knowing as much as we used to think we did? Not Knowing, Beginners' Mind, is a free place in which to explore life around us. I personally, work at not having opinions, not like i once did. I learned, over the years, that i tended to spend too much time defending my opinion, rather than learning something new. Now I listen more. Do I evaluate, a form of 'judging', yes. Do I have opinions? Yes. But I am more flexible and less 'structured' in my thinking than I used to be. In a way, that reflects my joy of meditating, in which I pretend to be no thing, a particle of life flaoting in this profound Mystery. Judgement certainly protects us, but if we rely upon it too heavily, can it confine us? - skytwig

vijeno	05 Apr 2003
Oh my... I really didn't realise this is such an emotional topic, that it moves people so much... I will take my time to inhale all of your postings to sort out my own opinions for myself. Only wanted to say it so nobody thinks I'm ignoring it because it isn't "my" thread anymore. :-P Oh, and to Umbrae my warm greetings. It was no compliment, it was only true. I'd love to discuss that christianity thing one fine day in more depth. But right now I have some trivial puter programming and weekend partying to get done... :-) vijeno

firemaiden	05 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by miranda well i do see your point:) & to snoopys fans im sure some at least, their feelings are as strong as yours.. :) ps i also wanted to add in my previous post that that <> this does not have to take away any bit of your love of classical music I am not sure how to answer this.... the point that I was trying to make, is that it is politick today to say both musical forms are equally valid, that no judgement need be made, and that rap is equally as valuable as classical music. This is what extreme open-mindedness is aiming for. Love everything, judge nothing... All is equal under the eyes of God... This is a noble aim. Truly a noble aim. And I agree that all people should be treated with kindness, and not judged for their differing tastes. However -- here is where the stoning begins.... I think the danger comes in when we bend too far backwards to accomodate all values, and in the process fail to stand up for what we truly believe in. People who love classical music rarely stand up for it. They are gentle people. And so we have watched the classical radio stations dwindle to two, then one, then disappear... and so now, nobody will ever even hear it, unless they go looking for it... and they won't. So it dies. The real danger I see, is that when we try to love everything and judge nothing, we turn a blind eye to real threats. The real bullies can step in and just seize power. I think about how the nazis siezed power in Germany during an extraordinary time of intellectual, artistic flowering, and openeness. The Jews in the Weimar republic were enjoying for the very first time, rights of citizenship... it was a new modern open society... and then came this tremendous backlash. of intolerant bullies illegally hitchiking the government.. nobody believed it could happen, and by the time any one cared to protest, it was too late. Bullies exist in every society. But what conditions allow them to come to power only sometimes, and hitchhike the rule of law? Think about that. This thinking will eventually lead us to a great paradox: if you contemplate Rule of Law vs. Rule by Thuggery.... what protects Rule by Law?

Icarus	06 Apr 2003
There is no such thing in the entire universe as good or bad music. There is music which when heard by one person is liked. The same piece of music to another person is dis-liked. The fact that a judgement on good and bad music is completely relative does not mean it is without meaning. If a person believes Beethoven is better than snoop doggy dog, then beethoven is better. To them and all those who agree. {I agree by the wayJJ). Is snoop better than tupac, is Mozart better that Beethoven ? These should be a fairly harmless judgements/conclusions –no one should get hurt over it. If we look at murder, we look at the facts then come to a judgement/conclusion. Victim-victims family -- VERSES – the murderer –CONCLUSION—the murderer is bad But we must always be flexible, would opinion/judgement/conclusion change if the victim was Adolf Hitler? The nazi party seized on a sense of injustice and weakness in germany following world war one. It could be seen that one mans misjudgement about jews led millions of jews to die. I have no doubt it was a mis-judgement, despite the knowledge that judgement/conclusion does not exist outside the mind. The effects of judgement of course, can. Who will protect the rule of law is more a question for justice to handle. What do you do when thugs make the rule of law? Is my judgement , that judgement does not exist outside the mind a correct judgement ? Do we, should we, can we be 100% per cent sure about something before we make a judgement. The more known about something the better the judgement should be. Ignorance is often at the root of mis-judgement. It seems that in all this discussion about judgement, that small nine letter word, a lot of other words have come into play. Despite the relative nature and restrictions of language, there is, I am sure , a real meaning here. Judgement does exist, conclusions are draw, only in many forms by many different minds.

Major Tom	07 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Icarus There is no such thing in the entire universe as good or bad music. I suspect you've never heard a group of teenagers playing at music in someone's garage. :laugh: The value in their activitiy lies compeletly in their fun and learning - not in their music. :laugh: I believe we all ultimately judge ourselves and the things we most dislike in others are those things we most dislike in ourselves.

vijeno	07 Apr 2003
Okay, methinks I'm ready now to throw my Euro .02 in. I'm changing my lil theory... hehe ;-) There is, of course, necessary judgement. I need to decide whether I see myself fit to climb the Kilimandsharo. I might need to make decisions for other people in order to help them or, quite simply, because they're (my) children. There are, however, just as obviously, quite a lot of useless judgements. I don't really need to figure out whether I consider Ethan Hawke a "good" or "bad" person or how my favourite pub's owner should deal with a drunkard. Hmmmm.... perhaps examples are really the best way to show what I'm aiming at... Winter is coming back these days. Temperature has dropped to 4 degrees or so, there is heavy snowing outside. Now, on my way to work, I heard at least 3 people say things like "look at this terrible weather, isn't this really the worst...". Well, quite apart from the fact that this is the same practically every year around where I live, methinks I live a better life if I get rid of judging the weather. - If for the simple reason that I can't change it anyway ;-) Now, judging *g* from my own experience, there is much, much room for improvement even at those simple realms. I spent much, much, much too much time grumbling about things I can't change. And, well, to me it seems the best way to change my attitude might be to try and kind of watch my own judgements from a little distance. What do I gain, or hope to gain from it? Freedom. It seems to me that every judgement is (or creates?) a form of binding, (I'm NOT saying every binding is bad, mind you - love without binding is nonsensical, and love sure ain't a bad thing) - and it is simply wise to consciously choose if I am prepared to enter this binding.

firemaiden	07 Apr 2003
AS one who was born in the city that credits itself (however erroneously) with inventing free-speech, with inventing tolerance, with inventing politically correct, (Berkeley) I can tell you that little is as intolerant as "total tolerance".

vijeno	08 Apr 2003
Thanks for the excellent warning, firemaiden! In fact, the paradoxes are not to be underestimated (do I REALLY want to be tolerant against intolerance?)... I guess projections have a hideous way of sneaking back in through the back door. I can see two rather clearly now: 1. "I am so tolerant, why is no-one else?" ... i.e., projecting my own intolerance because I cannot allow myself to have that "bad" quality. 2. "My ideal is tolerance, therefore I'm better than anyone else." ... I personally find this rather interesting: It seems the moment I find out what I really want to achieve, it feels like I'm almost there - only afterwards, reality hits back in. (To do a little educational boasting: It's Jung's warning of the dangers of identifying completely with one specific archetype.) Well, what can I say? Been there, done that, soon to visit again. The only remedy I can think of is keeping a sense of reality along with the Musilesque sense of possibility ;-). Keeping contact with friends, especially those close enough to see thru the mask. Well, but then, hey, reality is sure to have its way anyway... Damn. Reality. Ugly ugly ugly! :-)

Fuchsia	14 Apr 2003
:confused: Question: What is judgment. That was answered mighty fine by Major Tom. Then it goes on and I scratch my head and wonder.. then I hit onto Ravenswing who asks.. “what do you do with judgements?” so I think ahh... good question. My opinion.. throw them out of the window if your life doesn’t depend on it. Translation: If it is not a political or religious question which is bound to get humans riled up to wonderful levels.. throw the judgement out of the window I say!. Ravenswings continues to ask.. "what does one do with judgements?".. My thoughts On Judging of other people: I normally ask myself. "Now who in the world put you on that pedestal Fuchsia and gave you the right to judge others?". So I think it through and reckon. No one. So forget it. If I need to judge in a situation in which someone is truly making a mess of their lives. My motto: A spade is a spade. Take it or leave it. I have no time to play games and thus will tell you what you most likely don’t want to hear. I will help as best as I can though if you sincerely want help. Result: One makes true friends for life but mostly one makes enemies. Conclusion: who cares (about the enemy part), the suns still shining and I have lots of love to give! And i totally agree with firemaiden who says.. "Little is as intolerant as total tolerance". Thank you for that Firmaiden, I have always wondered how to put it but now i do!!:D Now I bid you all adieu and i will creep back into my study cave and wish you all the best until I reappear again!

HOLMES	14 Apr 2003
the second post about judging others each according to their ability or their need, reminded me of something i read in highschool.. ANIMAL FARM. in it the message we are all created equal at the beginning of the revolt of the animals. but those pigs (real pigs not a slur)(but perhaps a bit more slur then we realize as i recall the teacher saying this was symbolic of the workers verus management and the pigs as they learned to walk and act actualy like the men in the end the animals couldn't tell the differnece between the men and the pigs at the end of the book ) wanted more power it got changed to we are all created equal but some are more equal then others. that is what the judgment we use on the old people., child, vs murders, bums. that we use comes into play i feel. as a spiritualist i am striving to let go of judgements such as buddha did, and jesus , two masters (i don't know what they really did even, just their ideal i have in my mind ) then i think of the part that they show in the movie. MONEY LENDERS YOU HAVE TURNED MY HOUSE INTO A DEN OF THIEVES or something like that jesus did. so even masters in human form get mad sometimes.( let us not analyze that further for it was talked to death in a previous thread. ehe ) as for buddha recall the story of sugar? the mother comes to buddha to ask him to ask her child to stop eating sugar, and he said come back in two weeks and she did and he told him and she ask him why it took two weeks and he said i had to stop eating sugar myself. (i of course wonder if that is a real story ) the point i am trying to make here is as human beings when we looks at ourselves our world, our people we judge... the course in miracles says we see only the past and not people as they are now, and that is true of many thing but is it all of things ? i can say i see my friend as i have alwasy seen them and there is those moments when i go hey they changed, when did that happen... but i am still not seeing them as defined by the now but rather , how their image of their past has changed slightly to take in their new growth. in such ways we tend to bind our frineds subconsciously to our image of them. and this is true of parents, ( how sad we get when our parents get old and we think to ourselves they used to be so vibrant, so strong, and fast like a rock. yet truth is , they may of been diminished by age, but for us can still be a rock, even it is just emotinally they are or mentally they are) and leaders. how many times in the movies, and in actual life we have followed a boss, a leader, a friend, a highly respect person of society and we have loyalties and all the sudden people say hey this happend to me and we sometiems blindly say that isn't what happend. but we still question it ? deep down inside. and this is how people end up following the person who has lost their path for who they used to be. in some regards. judgments is how we hold back those people trying to change. to go further into how will bring up some stereotypes. so i will only refer to myself and my people here. "you nothing but an drunk indian," is a strong stereotype around here. and for us to live with . some of us give in to this stereotype as that is what society has deemed for us they feel. other of us say that isnt' who we are and strive to break the sterotype and then there is our own spirituality tarot cards, YOU GOING TO HELL , REPENT REPENT. TAROT CARDS ? that is just bull **** TAROT CARDS ? your reading people by watchign their body language and that is all there is. TAROT CARDS ? you just lucky new age ? dont' talk to me of that crap i dont' believe it.. but if you follow this way and that way you will understand they say back to us. and so we judge back they are nothing but closed minded ... (and so forth ) when in actuality it is fear, ignorance, and perhaps a genuine person who tried it and felt it wasnt' for them. this is what is going on in the human world. yet in my soul i believe that the souls who watch over the earth and help us to grow and evolve arent sitting there judging us,, like the biblical god of fear, (he was a god fearing person ) but sending us love and say judge not, attach not, love conditionaly not . or even better. accept, let go ,and love unconditionaly (he was a god loving person ,) many of our transfrormations of judgements and growth over a thousand years has help us to see the source in a new light and to say nooo he doens't judge us , just becuase we judge others righteously , but he killed the dinosours for they were evil. did he ? a accident was set for the dinosaurs species by the souls of the dinosaurs, and so experienced the extinction of a species. and now.. WHO KNOWS PERHAPS WE ARE DINOSAURS souls incarnated? lol ok ok i am getting silly imagine where we will be in a thousand years.. how much we will know, how much growth and mind openness we will get to. still deep inside there will be judgements we had all our lives (past and present ) and it is our duty ,, our responsibility of souls of the universe to resolve to not have these judgements in the future lives into there isn't no more time. and when that time comes we will realize that we only had judgements for a moment or two in eternity and infinity

The Judgement thread was originally posted on 04 Apr 2003 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.