the cross & what it means

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 04 Apr 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

miranda	04 Apr 2003
well umbrae mentioned something in the other thread all are called all are chosen about the cross he said this << the cross predated Christianity as a symbol of nourishment and life. Literally the Tree of Life. They (the Christians) turned it into a symbol of death and suffering. A symbol that man must and should suffer before he can reap the rewards and benefits in heaven. Life can and should be a joy.>> well i was talkin to my hubby the other day about this.... i have this small gold cross i used to wear & i liked it allot some guy asked me if i was christian when i said no he said well why are u wearing that cross.. so i took it off. then about 2 weeks ago my hubby and i were out & i saw this amazingly beautiful cross on a rosary type chain i mean beaiutuf & it called to me so my hubby bought it for me .. so i started asking joe what does the cross really mean? he said it means suffering ... but i dont feel that way & havent felt that way .... i felt that it meant your way of showing the world (physically) that you are showing love for god... so umbreas saying that the cross was at first the symbol of nourishment & life really kix in for me ive never heard that before but i think that is what the cross has always beeen saying to me on another level.. what does everyone here think about the cross?

Martin	04 Apr 2003
There are the earlier uses of the equal armed cross, also known as the solar cross. This symbol is made up of a vertical and a horizontal, which we may ascribe to the phallus and vagina, the twin pillars of creation. When combined through intersection we produce four, the number of stability, and furthermore through the joining of masculine with feminine energies we produce the East, West, zenith and nadir of every conception i.e. those of birth, life, death and immortality (the four elements). However, as the name suggests, this cross is generally conceived to be masculine in nature, in which sense the cross represents the Sun and four rays coming from it. If we then rotate the solar cross on its central axis we produce a circle, further reminding us that everything changes and nothing perishes. It also combines the solar cross as a symbol of the God with the circle as a symbol of the Goddess. Hope this is of some help? Martin

miranda	04 Apr 2003
yes it does & i like your analogy.. but u say that <> how does the name suggest this? but i do like this allot <>>

cjtarot	04 Apr 2003
Miranda, Unfortunately, The cross (the "Christian" one) represents the death of a Christ to me. It is verry hard for me to get past that. THAT IS JUST MY OPINION and it varies from others opions. BUT ***NEVER*** let another tell you what you can wear or not wear. Wear your beautiful cross and if the yo-yo that made you double think wearing a crossin the past says anything..tell him to go scratch... Blessings and thank you for the insight on the origins of the cross. CJ

miranda	04 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by cjtarot Miranda, Unfortunately, The cross (the "Christian" one) represents the death of a Christ to me. It is verry hard for me to get past that. THAT IS JUST MY OPINION and it varies from others opions. BUT ***NEVER*** let another tell you what you can wear or not wear. Wear your beautiful cross and if the yo-yo that made you double think wearing a crossin the past says anything..tell him to go scratch... Blessings and thank you for the insight on the origins of the cross. CJ well it wasnt HIM that made me take it off it was the fact that i said to myself WHY am i wearng this? what DOES it mean to me.. thank good ness the cross does not siginify the christian feeling to me .. my parents were VERY smart in the fact that they never baptised me they never CHOSE my religion but when i got a bit older 10 they started taking me to dif churches not many but a few .. i thank them for this gift ,now i dont have any hang ups regarding religion.. the bible thats another story.....

cjtarot	04 Apr 2003
miranda, Thanks for clearing that up..about the why on the cross...didn't mean to sound so huffy.. NOW.. I also want to say I am raising 2 girls spiritually by myself. Your parents lessons on church and choice seem to be the one may work here. I am teaching them about God and being a good person, I have not read the bible to them, occasionally, we read childrens versions of Jesus's life experieces and as far as the cross goes, I have not had to cross that bridge yet..thank heavens. Blessings Cj

miranda	04 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by cjtarot miranda, Thanks for clearing that up..about the why on the cross...didn't mean to sound so huffy.. NOW.. I also want to say I am raising 2 girls spiritually by myself. Your parents lessons on church and choice seem to be the one may work here. I am teaching them about God and being a good person, I have not read the bible to them, occasionally, we read childrens versions of Jesus's life experieces and as far as the cross goes, I have not had to cross that bridge yet..thank heavens. Blessings Cj you did not sound huffy :)

Astraea	04 Apr 2003
Historically, the basic meaning of the cross is the intersection of spirit and matter. Its association with various religions and movements has modified and amplified that idea.

miranda	04 Apr 2003
found this http://www.cdk.si/grz/simbolika_sk_e.htm

Indigo_lady	04 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Martin However, as the name suggests, this cross is generally conceived to be masculine in nature, in which sense the cross represents the Sun and four rays coming from it. Not that I'm trying to falsify you or anything, but maybe it's a cultural perception... In spanish the cross is actually femenine "la cruz" "cristo murio en la cruz por nosotros" etc etc etc So I had never really thought of it as "masculine" If I recall, in catholic ritual it feels to me that they stress more on the Eucharist and the wine and the host as symbols of Jesus sacrifice and the new alliance. What do u think of that ?

Indigo_lady	04 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by cjtarot I also want to say I am raising 2 girls spiritually by myself. Your parents lessons on church and choice seem to be the one may work here. I am teaching them about God and being a good person, I have not read the bible to them, occasionally, we read childrens versions of Jesus's life experieces and as far as the cross goes, I have not had to cross that bridge yet..thank heavens. Cj Hi!!! I'm curious about your post, what exactly do u mean by *raising 2 girls spiritually*? - since at some point I hope to do that myself too ;)

Martin	05 Apr 2003
Hello, Just to clear up the confusion, I'm not saying that all crosses are masculine. What I was referring to was a tradition in western mystery traditions for the "solar cross" to be considered masculine. Of course there are other crosses with entitely different meanings and symbolism,such as the Tau cross etc. Sorry to have caused any confusion! Martin

Wisp Wings	07 Apr 2003
Hi! I am very much enjoying this thread and learning from it. Martin's talk of the Solar Cross and the url http://www.cdk.si/grz/simbolika_sk_e.htm ... I am thinking is one and the same, or at least by defined shape it is as both are having four equal arms to them. I really like a lot what that site had to say, especially the mid to latter part of the first paragraph. I do think that most people today in hearding the word "cross" visualize one that is with a longer vertical line and a shorter horizontal line. This cross is in the tradition of the christian cross and is this shape due to mankind being taller in height than is with arms out stretched wide. Here the obvious meaning is for crucifixion. One item I see that all crosses convey is what even the word "crux" means a pivotal, fundamental, or vital point. Before continuing on, I want to say that I look at the best that we all can be. Then try to see where we are able to be alike as oppose to forcing attention to where we each in the world are different. Difference is fine as long as we are allowing and tolerating each others beliefs and differences. There is good in all and we are connected to each other. I am a seeker as I feel most all on this list are, one that is Spiritual and strong in being in tune to their spiritual Self. I simply do not discuss my studies and beliefs that various groups of people (christian and non-christian) that are bothersome and I know do not agree. I love my tarot, meditations, various studies, and the spiritual journey we each travel on. I have not been a member of a pagan or a wiccan society. But where pagan means country dweller, I have been. A lover of our earth and all nature, I am, as well as a care-taker of her. I see God/Godess in all of life, because I chose to look through my eyes as this. I feel most bonded in a hiher state and spirit when absorbing nature, even working with gardening. I was raised christian. I will always see myself as a christian. I do want all to know that how many act while under the term christian is anything but Christ-like, but many others are following in a Christ-like manner with their life. Back to the subject of the cross....... thinking of what the cross that Jesus was crucified on, taking away his physical life is not a pretty picture. You can change that view of the meaning of the cross if you look beyond to the gift of his triumphing over death, (may have to think as the hanged man to see this angle). There is a good many people that are christian that use and know tarot. My personal beliefs is that the Universal Consciousness, the White Light, the Christ-Consciousness, the Higher Power, the God, the Godess, even the Collective Consciousness that we one and all attribute to, is all one and the same being.... SPIRIT. I sincerely hope this is read as my sharing and being in friendship, I am not wishing to offense anyone. Bright Blessings, Ginny

Martin	08 Apr 2003
"Martin's talk of the Solar Cross and the url http://www.cdk.si/grz/simbolika_sk_e.htm ... I am thinking is one and the same, or at least by defined shape it is as both are having four equal arms to them." The symbolism of the solar cross (the equal armed cross) is one that is much discussed in many books on the occult. My take on it is strongly influenced by Levi, and in his book Transcedental Magic, he talks at some length (i.e. pages!!) on the symbolism that I put across in a paragaraph! Martin

Victoria	09 Apr 2003
I'm in the "Tree of Life" camp, myself. It's a totem of mine - and I don't bother trying to explain to most that though I'm way anti-Christianity I have something that they think is a 'cross'. I don't even call it that!

The the cross & what it means thread was originally posted on 04 Apr 2003 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.