How does karma work?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 07 Jun 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

wavebreaker	07 Jun 2003
How does karma, or whatever you'd like to call it, work in your opinion? Is it instant? In other words, if one does something wrong, will there be a "karmic backlash" within days, weeks, months, years, or will it even pass over to next lives? Can you still have "bad karma" from previous lives or will it be solved at the end of one life, before you move on to the next? And how are karmic issues solved? Is it enough to realise that one was wrong and to have learned a lesson, or does it always involve some sort of punishment? Just some questions I was pondering...

HOLMES	07 Jun 2003
karma is still a mystery to me, it can be instant example we treat someone bad, then stub our toe, a spirtualist would ask what did i do, or what is going on that i may stub my toe ? and then they may think of that person they did a wrong act and said the universe was balancing out the situation. but in such a case i sincerly believe that the karma wasnt' clear but a reminder that karmic energies has to be cleared. they say karma can carry over into other people lives, for if love can be carried over then can not hate ?. hmm in the movie ghost patrick swayze character sam said " you take the best part with you ". so if that was true then karma wouldn't be how karma relates is it can carry over into multiple lives into the debt is paid. to example that. supposed i beat up an old lady and robbed her and then accidently killed her , and then i ran for life and was caught and punished by the law. and never said to her spiirt forgive me i still haven't paid back by my individual karma to the old lady just a debt to society. but in the next live, we meet again and we were kids and the kid beat me up saying "that is what you get " a part of the debt would of paid. in the next life, i was robbed by the soul of the person, and in the next life , i was in a car acident that i lost my life with the person. *furthermore i give up the case that i had the sense that someone bad was going to happen but i had the choice of going or not and i choose to go for my soul wants to clear the debt off and i was done for my life lessons of that life* of course it isnt so clear cut as that for suppose later on i rebeat up the kid who beat me up, and the person who robbed me i put away for 7 years and they came back with more hate for me then before.? that is why i am going to mention buddha here but i never studied him, he mentioned getting off the karmic cycle . by being. while jesus preached forgiveness. it is a mixature of both, until we consciously decide to forgive each other, (both of us ) then it will continue into to many lives liek the old story , i killed you , you brother came and killed me and then my father went and killed you brother. it is a cycle that never ends.. yet when it comes to karma. first we have to get into the root of the problem the violet flame of st germain that clear karmic ties is a powerful tool for that. and then we say we are sorry for the first offense, and then ask forgiveness of all that we have done , then we see furthermore the karmic lessons of what they did to us in repayment and it is us who has to forgive . it is a hard task. it could be them that did the first offense after all but we repaid it in kind, yet no forgivness was done so we are both in the debt. i think though that it is constant process of forgive and release through many life times. and each time the offense to each other becomes lessen.

HOLMES	07 Jun 2003
i think that on the soul levle eventually a hand is offered and they say we are done with each other, thanks for the lessons. yet i see an image of a mediator coming forth on the spiritual level , he isn't a judge, just an equalizer , who says this is what you owe and you owe that back and when you are done , you shall be free. and then the decision is made in what life we will pay them back. for some times it isn't in ligned with the current life plan and so they wait for the next one. of course this just doesnt' come from karmic pain, but karmic love as well. example one life time i was a woman who took you in and looked after you for a week. this was a result of no karmic debt but of unconditional love. then in two life times from then , you do me a favour and it is repaid. it doenst' have the same onus as karmic pain as then it wouldn't be unconditional love , but more of a soul respect. our soul says my father in from that life in germany is now losing her job. i can stop in and offer a new job and i will be coming from the unconditional love. i will say something to the effecto "i dont' know why but i feel an affinity for you , what is your field, business ? just so happens we have an opening in the office, why dont' you come down on friday moring with your resume and .." then again it could explain why in the business world. the new employee comes in and we look at each other and just feel anger and hatred right away. that is could be a result of karma as well. yet through work with each other and understanding each other . we can pay some of it. it is such a grand concept and i don't understand all of it yet, these are just my thoughts from the basis of what i know

HOLMES	07 Jun 2003
when jesus said "i forgive you your sins" and took away the crippled back of person. he as a vessel for the creative force in the universe and the person expressed desire to say "yes i let go of my karmic sin and say clear me of this ". he was able to heal. which brings to mind that lesson there is no sickness but that what we create. it explains why some get sick and why some dont'. and why some get born with disease, maladies and some don;t. but it isnt' as clear cut as that. a person with the life lesson they choose to experience having a crippled body as birth or shortly after and they saw jesus and asked not to be healed would that be wrong ?. notice the person had to ask for it to happen. the forgiveness of their karmic lesson. and i am sure though it isn't related in the "bible" (least not that i heard , but i never studied it)that jesus taught those he healed to forgive those who wronged them. so it was a two way cycle. by theory, if i had a crippled body i should be using the light, the violet flame and the ascended masters/ angels, or the source itself depending on my belief to help me heal it with forgiviness, repetence(i hate using that word but i am using it for a personal repentence) and an openess for the universal light and love to heal me. that is how body work that work on energy and love work to bring up these fears, situations. and to help clear them. then again a master may show up, or in dreams and say " yet you asked to have thise in order to learn to love those in your situation, and those who would fear you because of your unique being. we can not take this away from you unless you wish to change your life contract yet we can give your love and support as long as you need this ". and a feeling of calm and peace and an examination of how this came to be, and why we are dealing with now, and that may help the person with the cripped body get past.

Jenny-Li	07 Jun 2003
I don't know, but I see Karma and synchronicity as very tightly bound together. I'm not sure what that means, and I'm in no way an authority on this subject, but from mere observations I think it works that way. So, if you walk your path, your Fool's journey, and truely try to learn and grow and develop, you are making deposits in your "Good Karma-account", and synchronicity will be there for you to help you find the gateways through which you will reach new levels of development. If you however, don't walk your path, but get yourself stuck in detours and hang on to your old limiting beliefs and never find the courage to get rid of the delusions that are holding you back - then you are depositing in your "Bad Karma-account", and synchronicity will probably present many possible ways out of the downwards spiral, but you will not see them. BUT! Bad Karma is not something that means you will be punished, it shows where you need to learn a thing or too, to truely understand your part to play in the Universe. We so often think of ourselves as individuals, but we are in fact all from the same Source, and I think understanding that is part of what Karma is all about. It is of no gain to us to walk past the beggars in the subway, because they are us, just like we are them - on a spiritual level. So yes, I think if you lead a selfish "individualistic" way of life, there will come a time where you need unselfish help from others. In this life or in the next - it doesn't really make a difference. I think the more profound the "issue", the more long-term I think Karma will work. Tarotlady, I wrote yesterday about the anger I had towards my neighbour, and how it took everything I had to cool down - and then he walked in - as a little teaser from the synchronicity/karma department. That's how I think Karma works in the short-term-perspective, for little things like getting pissed off for a minor thing. I got the opportunity to have an argument with him, and if I had, I would probably have done a deposit in the Bad Karma account, but the consequences would probably show up already this life, and not in the next. Whereas some issues, I have so deep within myself I'm pretty sure I've had them for many life-times. Insecurity, lousy confidence etc. Those are issues I am probably dealing with from different perspective everytime I come 'round a new incarnation. Because I still have some major deposits in the Bad Karma Account for those issues, that I need to deal with. Dunno if this makes any sense, and besides these are my personal thoughts only - I have never read a word of "real" authorities on the subject, but this feels right to me, from what I have seen when analysing my life...! With light, Jenny :)

coldsuns	07 Jun 2003
Long passages -.-!! Karma works in this life and next life. If you have bad karma, you need to pay them as fast as possible. How do we pay? Like incidents in life. The God will 'make' troubles for us until we get neutral karma. So those that do bad deeds everyday will forever get pay finish and need to pay by the next life. If you have good karma, the God will bless us away from troubles. But if you did bad deeds after sick of doing good deeds, God might forgive you once or twice. But he will soon give you troubles. Thats what..i thought? ^.^

wavebreaker	07 Jun 2003
Jenny-Li: that's more or less how I think about it. So as usual, we agree... ;) I too think that with regard to small issues, karma will work on the short term, whereas with big issues, it may pass on to a next life, or even several next lives, if it cannot be solved in one life. And I too don't think in terms of punishment, but in terms of lessons learned. Which makes me wonder: what if you've already learned your lesson, and you've realised that a certain behaviour is wrong or should be handled differently, and then you still go back to your old behaviour? To take your example of the neighbour: say you've already learned in the past that it's better not to pick an argument with him, so you know you should simply ignore him, but for some reason you do argue with him. I suppose that means that you haven't learned your lesson well enough; you know it, but you don't practise it yet. So is this going to be a deposit in your Bad Karma Account or maybe already a small deposit in your Good Karma Account because you've started to learn the lesson, or maybe no deposit at all because you're somewhere in between? (I like the term Karma Accounts! do you get interest on those accounts? :D )

wavebreaker	07 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by coldsuns But if you did bad deeds after sick of doing good deeds, God might forgive you once or twice. But he will soon give you troubles. Hm, but if you're "sick of doing good deeds", doesn't that mean that there is still a lesson for you to be learned? Personally, I can't imagine becoming sick of doing good deeds, because of the immediate positive reward I get out of doing good deeds (knowing that I've helped someone, for example, is a big reward to me).

coldsuns	07 Jun 2003
To tarotlady: Humans are always sick of doing the same things. Maybe doing good deeds will get rewards. But doing bad deeds will be a sorts of challenge to oneself. Sometimes bad deeds and bad karma doesnt really mean something really..terrible. Bad deed can be lying or swearing. And the 'trouble' you get might be only a scolding as a repay. Humans sometimes..enjoy the 'trouble' that the God punish them.

wavebreaker	07 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by coldsuns Humans are always sick of doing the same things. Maybe doing good deeds will get rewards. But doing bad deeds will be a sorts of challenge to oneself. Sometimes bad deeds and bad karma doesnt really mean something really..terrible. Bad deed can be lying or swearing. And the 'trouble' you get might be only a scolding as a repay. Humans sometimes..enjoy the 'trouble' that the God punish them. It's true that bad deeds sometimes are rewarded as well, but that is usually only a short-term reward. If you steal, for example, you may enjoy the money or the things you stole for a while, but if you're caught and put into prison, I'm sure you won't enjoy that so much... ;) Of course, some people aren't caught after they have committed a crime, but I'm sure they will have some sort of karmic reward later on, or maybe in a next life. Maybe they become the victim of a similar crime later in life, or in a next life. I still think that as long as someone sees a bad deed as rewarding, this person still has lessons to learn.

coldsuns	07 Jun 2003
re:tarotlady But some people choose not to believe in karma system. Thats why they dare to risk to steal. But maybe they arent caught. But God will still punish them. God might give him a car accident instead. Afterall..depends on what a person believe in. ^_^

wavebreaker	07 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by coldsuns But some people choose not to believe in karma system. Thats why they dare to risk to steal. But maybe they arent caught. But God will still punish them. God might give him a car accident instead. Afterall..depends on what a person believe in. ^_^ Very true! Except, if they don't believe in a karma system, they won't see a connection between the bad deed and the car accident, right?

coldsuns	07 Jun 2003
Yep tarotlady! Thats why here we are to 'spread' the message around..=X

Jenny-Li	07 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by tarotlady Which makes me wonder: what if you've already learned your lesson, and you've realised that a certain behaviour is wrong or should be handled differently, and then you still go back to your old behaviour? To take your example of the neighbour: say you've already learned in the past that it's better not to pick an argument with him, so you know you should simply ignore him, but for some reason you do argue with him. I suppose that means that you haven't learned your lesson well enough; you know it, but you don't practise it yet. So is this going to be a deposit in your Bad Karma Account or maybe already a small deposit in your Good Karma Account because you've started to learn the lesson, or maybe no deposit at all because you're somewhere in between? (I like the term Karma Accounts! do you get interest on those accounts? :D ) I think like this: you haven't learned your lesson until it is completely integrated with the way you act in your everyday life. So it's not enough to KNOW I should give a fiver to the beggar because he is virtually a part of me just like I am a part of him - if I am still scared by his ragged and dirty look, or if I still can't keep from judging him for his alcohol- or drug-abuse, for example. And in my neighbour-example I definitely still haven't learned the lesson, because next time it's not him that pisses me off, but someone else, and the karma-deal is not in "avoiding to pick a fight with my neighbour", but in not getting pissed off all the time at all... ;) I keep thinking so much about Dalai Lama's words: Peace does not start when all wars end, peace starts within me and you. (my translation) If you think of that quote, and of all the bad karma things that we actually do, whether we admit them or not (most of them we probably don't even admit to ourselves), have their roots in exactly that imbalance: we don't have the peace and harmony within that would make peace truely start within us. As for your other question - I believe the Universe will recognise something that would be defined as "work in progress" and there might be special rules for that. But like I said - if I only talk about doing the right thing, but still am too afraid or limited or selfish or whatever it is to practise what I preach, then yes, I will of course have to go through the same thing for another life - and probably see things from an other perspective where the lesson will become obvious. Perhaps I will be the bum in the subway next time, and have to face judgement and prejudice and fear in the faces of people I beg for money. For example. I have had non-Karma-believers call me a heartless bastard so many times when they hear I believe in Karma, because they all thnk believing in Karma means I think handicapped, poor and starving people around the world "deserve what they have to go through" because of bad karma, but I don't see it that way. It isn't the thief that ends up crippled, but rather the selfish and greedy - and if I act selfishly and greedily towards them THIS time 'round, well, then the circle just closes and - here we go again, next time I'm the unfortunate one. But it's difficult to explain these things to people who have already made up their minds... (And the funny thing is, I got to know my friend S, that I've told you about, by pretty much accusing her of being the heartless bastard - before I had tried out the Karma-thinking for myself. We have never discussed these things in depth, so I'm not sure she has explored the Karma-ideas the way I have, but - she got me thinking, and before I knew it - I joined the Karma-team! :D Jenny :)

The How does karma work? thread was originally posted on 07 Jun 2003 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.