Druid, Wizard, Warlock and Witch

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 02 Jul 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

coldsuns	02 Jul 2003
I was told that Druid is someone who believes that the nature actually gives energy. Wizards are the so-call good Druid that do good deeds like Merlin. Warlocks are those that are so-call bad Druid that do bad things. Witches are evil? Witches dont believe in God and have spells even to save people, but why not using God's ways? Witches are people that do things against the nature. What do you think..?

divinerguy	02 Jul 2003
I think they are labels and nothing more. If we are to be measured by others, I believe we should be measured by the quality of our character and the level to which we contribute to society. If someone were to use such terms in reference to me, I cannot control what they say. I can only hope that they're not too unkind in their assessment. But in the end, I am who I am (apologies to Popeye). I'll leave the "what I am" to others, because it truly doesn't matter to me.

raeanne	02 Jul 2003
Hi all, I always thought that the term warlock was a verb. It was an action that happened to a witch or wizard to prevent them from doing any magic. Being warlocked meant that you couldn't use any of your powers. Referring to a person as a "warlock" meant that this individual had their powers restrained. I personally think there are good and bad witches, wizards, and druids just like there are good and bad of anything else. I have heard of male and female witches, male and female druids, but I'm not sure if I have ever heard of a female wizard. I'm not saying they don't exist, I just haven't heard of it. I have always felt that druids are more connected to nature than a witch or wizard but I don't really know what else might distinguish one from the other. I am interested in hearing other people's comments on the meaning of these words.

buzzbee	02 Jul 2003
Hello Coldsuns. I am a witch & I assure you I believe in Deity & have a deep reverence for nature. Magic can only be accomplished within Natural Laws, and therefore it is not possible to work against nature. The term "warlock" actually means "betrayer" & has nothing to do with real witches or druids. It's used in movies & TV & by wannabes, but not amongst true witches. Curiosly, the symbol you have beside your login name is a pentagram used in many world religions throughout history(even Christian), but in modern times by witches; & the tripple moon which is one symbol of the witch's tripple goddess. I hope you will take some time to look around this website and think about the diversity represented in the many thoughts and comments.

DarkElectric	02 Jul 2003
Hi Coldsuns, I think we have to take cultural differences into account here. The term "Witch" in some places is used to denote someone who practices evil sorcery. In others, it's used in an altogether different context. In Western countries, the religion of Wicca is a nature based religion, which differs from so called "conventional" religions in the respect that Wicca honors a Female aspect of divinity, as well as (or sometimes in place of) a Male aspect. Some Wiccans choose to call themselves Witches, some don't. And there are those who call themselves witches,don't practice Wicca, but instead, do folk magic, for healing, good luck, etc. (Kitchen Witches) According to the Wiccan tradition, we live by a code of ethics which admonishes against unsavoury practices. We believe that not only is it wrong to use magic in evil ways merely on general principles, but that anything like that comes back against the practitioner of such work 3 times or more. No sane person would work negative magic knowing full well the misery they would be bringing back on themself. As far as the term "Warlock", it is a term of contempt, and does indeed mean traitor. It's also usually used by ignorant idiots who think they're "cool" and are trying to impress their friends with how "occult" they are. These people are sadly misguided, and didn't do enough research into the very subject they think they know so much about.

Rhiannon	02 Jul 2003
These are the definitions as given by www.dictionary.com. Druid: 1. One of an order of priests which in ancient times existed among certain branches of the Celtic race, especially among the Gauls and Britons. Note: The Druids superintended the affairs of religion and morality, and exercised judicial functions. They practiced divination and magic, and sacrificed human victims as a part of their worship. They consisted of three classes; the bards, the vates or prophets, and the Druids proper, or priests. Their most sacred rites were performed in the depths of oak forests or of caves. 2. A member of a social and benevolent order, founded in London in 1781, and professedly based on the traditions of the ancient Druids. Lodges or groves of the society are established in other countries. Wizard: 1. One who practices magic; a sorcerer or magician. 2. A skilled or clever person: a wizard at math. 3. Archaic. A sage. Warlock: a deceiver, a name or the Devil, a belier or breaker of his agreement, word, or pledge. Witch: 1. A woman claiming or popularly believed to possess magical powers and practice sorcery. 2. A believer or follower of Wicca; a Wiccan. 3. A hag. 4. A woman considered to be spiteful or overbearing. 5. Informal. A woman or girl considered bewitching. R :)

buzzbee	03 Jul 2003
Hmm R, here's a feminists take on patriarchal dictionary definitions: how'cum a wizard or sorcerer (the male) *is* a magical practicioner, but the female witch only is popularly believed to be magical or calls herself so? Not your fault - I know.

raeanne	03 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by buzzbee Hmm R, here's a feminists take on patriarchal dictionary definitions: how'cum a wizard or sorcerer (the male) *is* a magical practicioner, but the female witch only is popularly believed to be magical or calls herself so? Not your fault - I know. Hi Buzzbee, The dictionary definition doesn't say anything about gender for wizard, sorcerer or druid. The definition for a witch does say "a woman ...". How interesting.

tarotpharot	04 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by coldsuns I was told that Druid is someone who believes that the nature actually gives energy. Wizards are the so-call good Druid that do good deeds like Merlin. Warlocks are those that are so-call bad Druid that do bad things. Witches are evil? Witches dont believe in God and have spells even to save people, but why not using God's ways? Witches are people that do things against the nature. What do you think..? I do want to point out something about labels. Are Presbyterians evil and do things against nature? Most, probably not. There probably are some Presbyterians, Catholics, Methodists, Bhuddists, Druids, Witches, Wiccans, etc. who do rotten, evil things and still call themselves whatever. Labels are just labels. Just because my definition of what constitutes this or that or another thing is different than anothers, what makes mine more valid? Again, the point is that one defines what these titles mean personally, and certainly a group can profess certain other groups/individuals to be or not to be whatever. Many define a Witch as following the tenets set down by such doctrines as the Wiccan Rede. Not to pick on the Rede as I think it's a fine bit of ethics. I must point out, however that those we have proclaimed as Witches from many centuries ago had no clue about Gerald Gardner, Doreen Valiente, Starhawk or any other modern era practitioner. Organized covens and such adhering to dogmatic rules and labeling others as "whatevers" pretty much didn't happen. I'm simply saying that one shouldn't be so quick to say "REAL" Witches don't do this... -or- REAL Witches really do this. Think about it. Blessings of the season, TarotPharot })

Rusty Neon	04 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by raeanne Hi Buzzbee, The dictionary definition doesn't say anything about gender for wizard, sorcerer or druid. The definition for a witch does say "a woman ...". How interesting. Thanks to the television situation comedy "Bewitched" that I watched as a kid, it's indelibly sketched in my mind that witches can be good or bad but can only be female and that warlocks are the male counterpart of witches and can also be good or bad."

tarotpharot	04 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Rusty Neon Thanks to the television situation comedy "Bewitched" that I watched as a kid, it's indelibly sketched in my mind that witches can be good or bad but can only be female and that warlocks are the male counterpart of witches and can also be good or bad." Certainly works for me, Rusty. One of the things which has come to bother me about the Neo Pagan movement (of which I admit begrudgingly to be a part of) is the way people learn to quickly regurgitate the propaganda about what straight arrows Witches are. I have gotten to the point where I really don't call myself a Witch, pagan, Wiccan, or whatever. I'm a (big protacted drumroll) : Brad! }) Seriously folks, learn your craft for YOU, and don't be so concerned about the labels others try and attach to you. If some well-meaning cowan decides to call me Wiccan because it makes it a bit easier for them to tolerate ~me~, alrighty then. What *I* don't need is folks running around perpetuating the age-old myths about what witches are and aren't without doing a little research first before pinning the "tale" (sic) on the Witch. TarotPharot

HudsonGray	04 Jul 2003
Actually, the original definitions in the first post seem to come directly from the Dungeons & Dragons type of categories. Whoever 'told' you, Coldsuns, might have got it from there, from fantasy/science fiction books they read, from fiction, from the tv or from movies. None of those are from real life. But I agree, they're all labels & a person is much more than something you can peg on a box & say 'that's them, 100% and nothing exists outside that'. If I'm an artist, do I HAVE to work with oils and acrylics? Personally I use pen and ink. If I'm a hiker, do I HAVE to walk trails? I do 20 miles a week on city streets (and make $60 a month from the aluminum cans I've been picking up). If I'm a gardener, does my garden HAVE to look like the flower beds at the botonical gardens? Mine are home and haven to 3 feral cats and a slew of birds. If I'm a reader, do I HAVE to read great literature? I like action adventure instead and have 8 full bookcases scattered throughout the house. Labels are such a tiny part of what a person is or isn't. Throw in ethnic variations (as this is a world wide group) and it confuses things even more. Yes, I practice magic. I'm not bad, I have a diety, I'm a good person. Do I affect others with what I do? No, I don't do much in the way of spellwork outside of some healing. If anyone came up to me & said 'hey, I'm a Wizard' I'd think they'd been reading the Harry Potter books & not take them seriously.

DarkElectric	04 Jul 2003
There's a lot of reconstructionism going on in the Neo-Pagan sphere. I personally believe that Wicca is a brand new religion, perhaps one of the youngest of the Modern religions, which sprang up in the late 20th century. Golden Dawn was NOT Wicca. Other esoteric magic societies were not Wicca. Wicca began in the 1950's, I think, and has grown by leaps and bounds. But I doubt that what I practice today, no matter what I call it, is the same thing as what my ancestors practiced. I believe humans are a magickal species, and we have always known the other world is there for us to tap into, when we need. No matter what religion somebody is, it all seems to have at it's core a personal connexion to Spirit. Some call it God, the Creator, Goddess, Allah, Jah, Great Spirit, whatever. I call myself a Mage, because I'm comfortable with that term. But if someone asks me if I'm a Witch, I ask them what they mean. If their definition is somewhat close to what I am, then for convenience sake, I say "Yes". If, on the other hand, they start describing an evil person, or someone who worships the flip side of a Christian Diety who's name begins with "S", I immediately point out that this isn't what I'm into, and try to explain what I'm about. And there is a tendency for people to get all huffy and try to colour Witches as "Straight Arrows". This isn't true either. Personal ethics are as much a part of this as anything. Power is neutral. It's how someone uses it that makes all the difference. When you pick up a coin, you pick up both sides. I know people who have been willing to suffer the consequences of their magical actions, when they felt that whatever was concerning them was worth the price they knew they'd pay. These people did what they felt they had to do, took responsibility for their actions, and that's that. It isn't something I would recommend, but everyone has the right to live their own life, walk their own path.

tarotpharot	05 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by DarkElectric And there is a tendency for people to get all huffy and try to colour Witches as "Straight Arrows". This isn't true either. Personal ethics are as much a part of this as anything. Power is neutral. It's how someone uses it that makes all the difference. I agree with most everything you have to say, DE. The key to your statment above is "Personal" ethics. Personal as defined by YOUR person, and not anothers. Ethical people make ethical choices. Unethical people likewise, tend towards unethical choices. Doesn't matter what they or anyone else considers their "label" to be. Then, there is the gray area which is a tougher nut to crack. Consider the following: "O see ye not yon narrow road __ So thick beset with thorns and briers? That is the path of righteousness, __ Though after it but few enquires. "And see ye not that braid, braid road __ That lies across that lily leven? That is the path of wickedness, __ Though some call it the road to heaven. "And see not ye that bonny road __ That winds about the fernie brae? That is the road to fair Elfland, __ Where thou and I this night maun gae." -Thomas the Rhymer Now, which road would YOU choose? Me, I choose the Third Road. Brad }) TarotPharot

DarkElectric	05 Jul 2003
I do believe that's the road I would take also, my friend.

Teranar	05 Jul 2003
Witch, warlock, wizard... to be perfectly honest, labels and titles don't mean a thing to me. I could care less. All I think labels are are a means of establishing hierarchys, and I have issues with the thought that so and so is superior to me according to heirarchy and I can be so high and what not. Anything that trys to limits people just feels wrong to me. BTW you didn't cover sorcerer. :P

meatbox666	06 Jul 2003
I hope you come across the real facts about the Druids. They were notorius Satanists who even indulged in human sacrifices. I did not want to believe it at first but I finally realised how real and true Satan is. He is a liar and a murderer because Jesus said so and a Master Deciever. The main objective of my posts are for people to see a different view of spirituality. Love, Meat

zorya	06 Jul 2003
the druids practice an earth based spirituality based on the celtic tradition. here is an excellent site about druids. loads and loads of information. http://www.druidry.org/ druidry predates christianity. satan is a christian construct, so it would be impossible for them to have worshipped satan.

DeLani	06 Jul 2003
I am also a Witch. Also call myself Wiccan sometimes, Pagan others. Witchcraft or Wicca is a relatively modern religion which draws upon the traditions and practices of a wide variety of pre-Christian Pagan European cultures. Much like the Pan-Indianism practiced by many Native Americans today; it is a modern reconstruction of ancient cultures in order to keep them from becoming extinct. Just because a religion is new doesn't make it any less valid. In fact, I would say that most modern Wiccans are more critical about their history and hold it to much higher standards of authenticity than any of the "established" religions. Druids were the priestly class of the Celtic people, both pre-Christian and up into the Christian times. There are still Druids today in the UK and the US. Winston Churchill was a Druid. The druidry.org site will give you lots of great info about their beliefs and practices. And yes, in ancient times, they did practice human sacrifice, but only rarely, and there are lots and lots of other religions who did the same thing around the world. Obviously, they don't do that anymore. Wizards and Warlocks are fantasy characters. Anyone who says they are one are either a) lying; b) misguided by TV shows, books or movies; or c) totally delusional. It is good that you came to this site to get the info straight from the horses' mouths, so to speak, as there are several Witches, Wiccans, Pagans, and Druids here that can give you accurate info.

HudsonGray	06 Jul 2003
Meatbox, Satan is a construct of Christianity--'he' didn't exist prior to the Christian religion. All religions (old and new ones) have a good/evil, sort of yin/yang that they recognise. Satan, however, is a personification of all evil according to the Christian church and only applies to Christian based religions. There's no way the Druids worshiped or even 'knew' about him because they predate the year 1 AD by quite a good bit. Yes, they recognized evil, but in the same way that all other religions not Christian based do--that it's there & that it's a balance against good. They had no Satan as an entity personifying it. Your religion is trying to interpret other religions based on itself. That doesn't work very well when you look at things a little closer. The Christian missionaries used the same arguments from the 1600's on to present day whenever they came in contact with other people's religions, just whitewashed over the intricicies (sp?) of the other religion & based all assumptions on what the Christian religion is built on. We lost a lot of cultural stuff worldwide thanks to that. For instance, there's ONLY three written codex left out of the Aztec's entire written libraries -- the Spaniards destroyed everything else they could find & only a very few were sent back to Europe. It's damn hard finding much about them online, but you can see pictures. Each of the codex is now called by the name of the city they're kept in. (This is only one example of course).

Minderwiz	06 Jul 2003
I agree wholeheartedly with the above three posts. I would perhaps point out that whilst Christianity may not have had human sacrifice as a central part of its belief system, its persecution and murder of women branded as 'witches' is just as bad as any human sacrifice carried out - indeed one could argue that in many ways these poor individuals were human sacrifices. In the words of Jesus - 'let him who is without sin cast the first stone' It is not reasonable to hold the crimes of past generations of believers against the current generation. This holds for Christians and it holds for Pagans as well. Both Pagans and Christians are searching for spiritual experience and where this is actively pursued then we should respect their various paths and glory in the diversity of creation.

Hedera	06 Jul 2003
Quote: whilst Christianity may not have had human sacrifice as a central part of its belief system Minderwitz, not to be facetious, but isn't a certain human (ok, maybe half human, half god) sacifice THE central part of christianity? Some people even have the poor guy on his cross hanging in their houses...... ;)

Minderwiz	06 Jul 2003
Point taken Hedera - but at least in that case it was a voluntary sacrifice (Assuming that it actually happened). For the many others, victims of both Pagan religions and Christianity the choice was not there. Happily Christianity and Paganism no longer carry out such practices and search for spiritual enlightenment in their own way - as do the other major faiths of the world.

The Druid, Wizard, Warlock and Witch thread was originally posted on 02 Jul 2003 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.