Literature Clues: XVI the Tower

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 08 May 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

allibee	08 May 2003
I remember The Merchant of Venice, we did it at school, I loved it :O) and now you've started me off, mwahahaha. Same play, near the end: PORTIA (addressing Shylock in court) Tarry, Jew: The law hath yet another hold on you. It is enacted in the laws of Venice, If it be proved against an alien That by direct or indirect attempts He seek the life of any citizen, The party 'gainst the which he doth contrive Shall seize one half his goods; the other half Comes to the privy coffer of the state; And the offender's life lies in the mercy Of the duke only, 'gainst all other voice. In which predicament, I say, thou stand'st; For it appears, by manifest proceeding, That indirectly and directly too Thou hast contrived against the very life Of the defendant; and thou hast incurr'd The danger formerly by me rehearsed. Down therefore and beg mercy of the duke. Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice, Act 4, Scene 1 No .... it's not the Justice card :O) Allison

Two of Wands	08 May 2003
Justice?

allibee	08 May 2003
hehehe, two of wands, I was busy editing my post to say not Justice, so I missed your post :O) No, not Justice A.

Two of Wands	08 May 2003
Fair enough :) - I was fairly sure that would be too easy!

allibee	08 May 2003
Far too easy, LOL, you don't get off that lightly ;) A.

Moongold	08 May 2003
Knight Pentacles?

allibee	08 May 2003
Sorry Moongold, but no. :O)

Two of Wands	08 May 2003
Wheel of Fortune

Khatruman	08 May 2003
The Devil?

allibee	08 May 2003
The Wheel of Fortune was a VERY close answer, TW. Sorry Khatruman, not the Devil. I have to go on the school run now, so please keep guessing :O) A.

Myrrha	08 May 2003
Perhaps it is the hanged man, who is sometimes called the condemned man. Also in some decks he has money coming out of his pockets, and Shylock has just had a topsy turvy kind of reversal . . . Myrrha

Two of Wands	08 May 2003
The Hanged Man sounds like a good guess to me. The only other thing that came to mind was Temperance.

allibee	08 May 2003
Myrrha, very good ideas but not the Hanged Man, nor Temperance, TW. you're all going to kick yourselves when you realise you've been barking up the wrong tree. Go and have a mars bar and try again :O) A.

Two of Wands	08 May 2003
Well I'm lost! You say I was close with The Wheel of Fortune, but close to what :)

allibee	08 May 2003
If I tell you, I will have given you the answer :) LOL. But it all seems like I'm making this a painful experience when it's supposed to be firing up those brain cells! There are clues is the guesses and their responses thus far, but here's another: People only see what they are prepared to see. --Ralph Waldo Emerson A.

Two of Wands	08 May 2003
I see!

Myrrha	08 May 2003
Perhaps it is the Emperor as Portia is behaving in an emperor-like fashion and saying the state has the right to confiscate Shylock's goods? It is more the actual manifestation of civic law than the abstract notion of Justice. Myrrha

allibee	08 May 2003
No Myrrha, you're getting colder - must say that the Emperor was quite unexpected though LOL - It's not so much about Portia or Shylock. The card is what is being said really, the speech. Go have another Mars bar :O) Another clue: A faith that cannot survive collision with the truth is not worth many regrets. --Arthur C. Clarke A.

Moongold	08 May 2003
Judgment? There is a kind of judgment involved and Wheel of Fortune = 10 whilst Judgment = 20. Is that the closeness? This is a good one. Allibee :) Moongold

allibee	08 May 2003
Oh dear Moongold, I'm afraid no...... and a mars bar for trying :O) I'm beginning to think this is a catastrophe :( the puzzle seems to be crumbling around me..... however I have faith in you all and when I awake tomorrow I shall check in and to find that one or more of you has had a revelation .... that is the one's I haven't sent away perplexed, hehehe - and we can start over. :O) A.

Moongold	08 May 2003
No, it's not a catastrophe. just a puzzle. It does seem to be Major Arcana? That's a question.... How about the World. Only rationale it looks a bit like the Wheel of Fortune and the character (Shylock?) is about to lose his world. Or King Pentacles? Property, authority, Duke...... Another little hint perhaps? Moongold

allibee	08 May 2003
DEFINATELY a Major ... think I may have said that already - not that many left :O) I shall leave you all with a multipack of mars bars as I go up for the night ... it's 10pm here.... I can't do late nights anymore as I fall over in the morning otherwise. Gone are the days when I could stay up all night drinking and the only reason I fell over in the morning was because I was still drunk ROFL A.

Myrrha	08 May 2003
Ah, *Mars* bars! The Tower? Myrrha

allibee	09 May 2003
HALLELUJAH....HALLELUJAH......HALLELUJAH HALLELUJAH HALLE.....LUJAH !!!!! Indeed Myrrha, tis the TOWER. Your Hanged Man idea was SOOO close because he had indeed had a topsy turvy reversal, but of mega - catastrophic - proportions! Two of Wands mentioned the WHEEL of FORTUNE, which was close too, because yes, there had been a a reversal of fortunes .... but based upon the foundations the character himself had laid, the action he had taken, not fate. It was also sudden. The text itself was the deliverance of a rude awakening, and really pulled the rug out from under his feet. It was a very painful experience and the situation really fell apart quickly for him .... not only was his money threatened, but his personal wellbeing ..... in fact he was faced with the total loss and destruction of everything he'd built up. Consider the text in a modern, colloquial, charicature, non politically correct manner - you are forwarned so don't take offence: Tarry Jew ...... oi, you with the nose and the money, where do you think you're going? (what me?) The law hath yet another hold on you..... the law hasn't finished with you yet. (gulp!) It is enacted in the laws of Venice, If it be proved against an alien That by direct or indirect attempts He seek the life of any citizen ...... (I just wanted my money) The party 'gainst the which he doth contrive Shall seize one half his goods;...... (no, surely not half stuff?) the other half Comes to the privy coffer of the state;.....(no, all my stuff?) And the offender's life lies in the mercy Of the duke only, 'gainst all other voice.......(nooooooo....) In which predicament, I say, thou stand'st;....... you're really in the pooh (face turns pale) For it appears, by manifest proceeding, That indirectly and directly too Thou hast contrived against the very life Of the defendant;...... it seems coming to court was your own doing and you will suffer for your naiveity (OMG) etc, etc, etc. other clues: ....realise you've been barking up the wrong tree....... mars bar..... painful experience ......... People only see what they are prepared to see...... quite unexpected .... Mars ..... A faith that cannot survive collision with the truth is not worth many regrets .... mars .... catastrophe .... crumbling around me ......a revelation .... mars sheesh, LOL, hehehe A.

Two of Wands	09 May 2003
You're right, the rug really is pulled out from under his feet at this stage! Good round Allibee, it had me stumped and yet The Tower works perfectly for this quote! I obvioulsy wasn't thinking around teh quote enough.

Moongold	09 May 2003
Allibee, This was great......a real build up of tension......absolutely delicious. Hope the next one is like this too. However, what is the connection of MARS bars to Tower? Just for future reference. :) Thanks heaps, Moongold

allibee	09 May 2003
just 'Mars'. The Roman God of War and Destruction. Most - but by no means all - give this as a planetary correspondance to the Tower. The hand of God that rocks your world. The lightening that strikes the tower. Energy, Action and Power. The Wheel is a cosmic pebble, the Tower a boulder the size of a truck :O) The preceding Devil card - also sometimes given the Mars association - is where we build our false tower, and in the Tower, it is knocked down. By some La maison dieu, house of God, is seen as an newer corruption of the La Maison Diefel, house of the devil, which sounds more like it if you see the two cards carrying on from one another. A.

Myrrha	09 May 2003
Quote: Two of Wands mentioned the WHEEL of FORTUNE, which was close too, because yes, there had been a a reversal of fortunes .... but based upon the foundations the character himself had laid, the action he had taken, not fate. It was also sudden. The text itself was the deliverance of a rude awakening, and really pulled the rug out from under his feet. It was a very painful experience and the situation really fell apart quickly for him .... not only was his money threatened, but his personal wellbeing ..... in fact he was faced with the total loss and destruction of everything he'd built up. Yes, it fits exactly! Great riddle. This is a really great game. I will think of a new one to ask while at work today, and look to see what cards have already been used. Is it OK to use a card that has been done before? Makes it harder to guess! Myrrha

allibee	09 May 2003
I don't mind if its been done already, I don't know about others tho'. It may be that they may still be fresh in peep's minds. Just a thought, and looking forward to your card A.

Dark Eyes	09 May 2003
I don't mind either, With three games going at once, It is always a challenge no matter what. So... go right ahead as far as I'm concerned, I can't wait !!

The Literature Clues: XVI the Tower thread was originally posted on 08 May 2003 in the Tarot Games & Fun board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Games & Fun, or read more archived threads.