What card am I: Justice

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 08 Jun 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

allibee	08 Jun 2003
*wink*...I'm afraid to say there have been complaints, LOL, about the lack of scholarly clues on my quizzical threads, and the guys with 100% more grey matter than me have been restless, so here's one to tax you: What card am I? In the Eastern Tradition of Italy I stood betwixt the realms of heaven and earth. }) A.

coldsuns	08 Jun 2003
I know! Is it the Judgement? "This angel, messenger between heaven and earth, sounds her trumpet." =P

allibee	08 Jun 2003
No, I'm sorry Coldsuns, but a good guess all the same :O), .

coldsuns	08 Jun 2003
Is it a major or minor card? Which element? Hehe =X

Persha	09 Jun 2003
I have this picture of a woman standing on earth, with one hand chained to the Godhead above and the other holding the chain of a monkey sitting on the globe ...Temperance? -Persha

allibee	09 Jun 2003
Nice visualisation Persha, but no. First clue: This is a historical round of what card am I

firemaiden	09 Jun 2003
Mercury? Messenger of the Gods? = the Magician?

firemaiden	09 Jun 2003
la Maison Dieu? (Tower)

allibee	09 Jun 2003
Nope, sorry Firemaiden. It's not about Messengers, LOL, although one realm is an Angel. This card has 'stood' - a passive term - occasionally between these two realms, historically in the Eastern Italy tradition according to this particular Hermit. Ok, lets go to Mythology..... The Realms can be likened to Uranus and Gaia, but they are not important, it's what they produce between them that is.....

firemaiden	09 Jun 2003
...well, the Tower "stands"...

allibee	09 Jun 2003
You are right, it does stand - bits of it anyway, dependant on which deck you look at, LOL - but it is not the answer :( This is a bit of a treasure hunt FM, do you know of any Hermits that may be of help to the enquiring mind? A.

allibee	09 Jun 2003
Clue: There are THREE cards being mentioned in this Eastern tradition, but only one stands in the middle of them in this historical line up (It may involve a tiny bit of research if you don't know the answer, but hey... it's all learning! I have mentioned where to start looking :O)) A.

spoonbender	09 Jun 2003
*sigh* damn, this is hard! wild guess: is it justice? to show that this guess isn't completely stupid: - on tarothermit, they say that in some eastern tradition, justice was placed between judgement (there's an angel on there, so it could be connected to heaven, right - right?) and the world (this could be connected to earth somehow, right?)... - I found somewhere that Themis, the Greek goddess of justice, was the daughter of Ouranos (Uranus: Heaven) and Gaia (Earth) hope this guess wasn't entirely dumb! allibee, you can go back to your scholarly-lacking clues! Spoonbender

allibee	09 Jun 2003
Now Spoonbender ... what was so hard about that? .... I made you put on your thinking caps, which is a good thing, no? Indeed Spoonbender you got all the clues, followed the trail the whole way, made the links and hopefully we all learned something new about the history of tarot on the way.... YAYYYYYYY! (Themis was in fact the goddess of divine justice as opposed to her daughter Dike - Dice - who was the Goddess of Mortal Justice, but hey, what's one Olympian generation between friends :O) I like to think that there is an element of both in the Tarot Justice.) So, Spoonbender, with absolutely no ceremony but lots of relief, LOL, I pass the baton over to you .... A.

firemaiden	10 Jun 2003
Allibee, your clues always make me think... sigh. The problem is, when I think... I still can't think of the answer. :( I am afraid I also didn't understand the explanation too well either, sigh. But I did learn from Spoonbenders answer about http://www.tarothermit.com/ and will enjoy exploring this site, thank you.

allibee	10 Jun 2003
In the Eastern Italian tradition...Justice is put between Judgement and the World card. http://tarothermit.com/ordering.htm http://tarothermit.com/ordering2.htm In my clue the Judgement card was represented by the Angel .... realm of heaven....and the World I represented as the Realm of Earth... Tom Tadfor Little explains that : ".....In the eastern tradition, the problem was solved by placing Justice above Death, next to the Angel of Judgement. This is symbolically appropriate, Justice now representing archangel Michael dispensing Justice on Judgement Day." A.

firemaiden	10 Jun 2003
Thanks for this Allibee.

allibee	11 Jun 2003
Spoonbender, where are you? Lets give it a few more hours, and then I'll post another one if there is no response. A bit easier ... I promise :O) A.

The What card am I: Justice thread was originally posted on 08 Jun 2003 in the Tarot Games & Fun board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Games & Fun, or read more archived threads.