Literary Clues: Charles Baudelaire, Les Fleurs du Mal- Solved

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 20 Nov 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

firemaiden	20 Nov 2003
from Charles Baudelaire, Les Fleurs du Mal Madrigal Triste– I Que m’importe que tu sois sage? Sois belle! Et sois triste! Les pleurs Ajoutent un charme au visage, Comme le fleuve au paysage; L’orage rajeunit les fleurs. Je t’aime surtout quand la joie S’enfuit de ton front terrassé; Quand ton coeur dans l’horreur se noie; Quand sur ton présent se déploie Le nuage affreux du passé. Je t’aime quand ton grand oeil verse Une eau chaude comme le sang; Quand, malgré ma main qui te berce, Ton angoisse, trop lourde, perce Comme un râle d’agonisant. J’aspire, volupté divine! Hymne profound, délicieux! Tous les sanglots de ta poitrine, Et crois que ton coeur s’illumine Des perles que versent tes yeux! Sad Madrigal - I What do I care if you are well-behaved? Be beautiful! And be sad! Your tears Add charm to your face Like the river in a landscape, As the storm freshens the flowers. I especially love you when joy Flees your furrowed brow When your heart drowns in horror When the hideous cloud of the Past Spills over your Present. I love you when your big eyes pour out Water, hot as blood When, despite my hand which rocks you, Your too heavy anguish pierces through Like the rattling breath of the dying! I drink, divine sensuousness Profound, delicious hymn! All the tears from your breast And believe that your heart shines With the pearls your eyes have shed.

gloria	20 Nov 2003
Wonderful stuff Firemaiden. Five/Cups?

Mystic Zyl	20 Nov 2003
Empress, sounds like a mother with unconditional love and also the verse that says something about rocking, hope it is referring to a cradel, not a be stoned, lol.

firemaiden	20 Nov 2003
It is a man's voice (Charles Baudelaire), speaking to a woman (she is "beautiful" - belle -- feminine ending). (she is a lover -- he always writes about his lovers) The title "Fleurs du mal" means flowers of evil. I understand where one will get the idea for the five of cups, because of the woman's pain.... there are certainly several possibilities in this card. The poet's attitude towards the womans' pain could be seen as empress like, but... Neither card is what I had in mind... Yes, I didn't translate very well... the word in french bercer means to rock as in a cradle.. we could imagine his hand carresses her, or tries to comfort her.

firemaiden	20 Nov 2003
Here is a better translation from Baudelaire Online Sad Madrigal What does it matter to me if you are wise? Be beautiful! And be sad! Tears Add charm to a face, Like a river to a landscape; Storms rejuvenate flowers. I love you most when joy Flees your downcast face; When your heart drowns in horror; When upon your present face The dreadful cloud of the past reveals itself. I love you when your large eyes spill Water as hot as blood; When, despite my comforting hand, Your too-heavy anguish breaks through Like the death-rattle of a dying man. I breathe in -- divine delight! Profound, delicious hymn! -- All of the sobs in your breast, And I cannot help but believe that your heart is illuminated By the pearls that flow from your eyes.

Dark_angel	20 Nov 2003
Makes me think of the later Swords? Maybe the Ten of Swords?

jmd	20 Nov 2003
VI L'Amoureux :)

firemaiden	20 Nov 2003
There is definitely an amoureux in this card... although.. ah... there is also much more! (no cigar for you jmd:() Now tell me, Dark Angel, what you are thinking of and why...

Alissa	20 Nov 2003
I *still* think it's the Queen of Swords....

firemaiden	20 Nov 2003
Oui Madame, okay, no fair... so definitely, she is a Queen of Swords... Now if I say I have a different card in mind ... what else could you offer?

jmd	20 Nov 2003
errr... Page of Wands...? <---delete... I'll suggest something else... Ssounds a little like a Knight... Knight of Wands ?

Gaidheal	20 Nov 2003
A question, firemaiden-Does the card you're thinking of reflect the man or the woman he's speaking to?

firemaiden	20 Nov 2003
Well, good question. I'm looking for a card to reflect the dynamic between them. There isn't really a perfect fit for this dynamic. Perhaps the second half of the poem will help:

Gaidheal	20 Nov 2003
I do not really think this is what you're looking for, but I'll throw one out there...9 of Swords?

firemaiden	20 Nov 2003
I'd say your getting pretty close... to be honest, I discussed this at great length in chat with a few members, because I really wasn't sure which card it should express -- it could be a two card combination... Major Tom suggested a particular card, close to the one you named... there is also one Major that fits well -- earlier mentioned and then retracted by Mystic Zyl... I'll give the grand prize to whomever mentions that Major Arcana card, or the one minor arcana card Major Tom thought of (unless it's Major Tom, or Aoife... or.. Alissa because that wouldn't be fair...) AND who can explain to me WHY!

jmd	21 Nov 2003
XV the Devil !

MattDouglas	21 Nov 2003
Some of the nouns, may fit the Devil, but the moods sounds more like the Moon so I'll say the Moon, and for a minor it sounds like the Queen of Cups.

firemaiden	21 Nov 2003
:D :D :D I'll take [/color]. :P But you didn't say why? (perhaps you didn't want to say...) Here there is perversion. Although there is great Empress-type love in embracing all of one's lover, including their pain, here she suffers more than grief and sadness, -- and the poet uses very strong language -- he loves her most when her heart is drowned in horror! -- the poet finds such sensual delight ("volupté) in her emotional pain, that it raises the spectre of sadism... Ah, these "evil flowers". And what is the card for "sadism"? hmmmm. For the pleasure of pain?... hmmm. The second half of the madrigal which I posted later, pretty much gives it away -- she is his "slave queen" who "loves him only out of terror" - she will never be released from slavery/bondage until she has learned to fully embrace all the horrors of hell --his hell. The other card, I had in mind, if someone had guessed it, would have been the eight of swords, for the sense of bondage -- which can only be thrown off by embracing it. As I am writing this answer, I notice MattDouglas has posted the Moon and the Queen of Cups - Yes, there is something of the Moon and the Queen of Cups here... certainly if one were to plunge into the pool before the great gates, that would be fitting of the descent into hell evoked here. Nevertheless, I'll take XV - the Devil!!

jmd	21 Nov 2003
errr... yes, that's why :) ... thanks for so clearly explaining it, firemaiden... I was just about to explain this... honest :D ...now to attempt another find ...

The Literary Clues: Charles Baudelaire, Les Fleurs du Mal- Solved thread was originally posted on 20 Nov 2003 in the Tarot Games & Fun board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Games & Fun, or read more archived threads.