What Card Am I? (Lit. Clues) Nov 27- Solved

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 27 Nov 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Star Spirit	27 Nov 2003
"In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by their philosophy." -- From the novel 1984, by George Orwell

Tallarico	27 Nov 2003
I am torn between two cards, but I am gonna go with........DEATH.

firemaiden	27 Nov 2003
10 of wands?

Star Spirit	27 Nov 2003
Nope, and nope. Well I'm glad it's not TOO easy :D

Minderwiz	27 Nov 2003
Five of Swords?

Star Spirit	27 Nov 2003
Not yet. Good tries though :)

Diana	27 Nov 2003
The Moon?

Star Spirit	27 Nov 2003
Good guess Diana, when I first saw that quote I thought of the Moon, but after analyzing the meaning more I chose a different card :) Keep em' coming.

Demonesse	27 Nov 2003
8 Swords?

Dark_angel	27 Nov 2003
The Hierophant? The more negative aspects of the Church can appear a bit like this, for example, refuting evolutionary theory, ignoring theories about the universe, allowing the burning of heretics (perhaps not through action, but through their inaction), opposing contraception, etc. These actions do not make sense when viewed from another perspective, but were felt to be vital for maintaining the Church's authority and infallibility.

jmd	27 Nov 2003
XV the Devil

Mystic Zyl	27 Nov 2003
World?

Star Spirit	27 Nov 2003
None so far, keep trying ;) I like your interpretation of the Hierophant though, Dark_angel.

MattDouglas	28 Nov 2003
Sounds like the 2 of swords to me.... blindfolded and in denial.

gloria	28 Nov 2003
7/Cups? Not living in the real world?

gloria	28 Nov 2003
........or the Emporer? The party imposing their will, what they say, goes.

Dark_angel	28 Nov 2003
The Hermit? I tried to look at the quote a different way; people are always finding out that previously accepted 'facts' are actually wrong, and by looking at the world in a different way, you can make all kinds of strange things seem perfectly normal. For example, puddle arithmatic - 1+1 can equal 2 or 1, etc! The Hermit also strikes me as the kind of guy who will hear more of Ekstasis than the rest of us (sorry, I think I've been using my Faeries Oracle too much!) and so realise that there is no outside or inside, that everything is part of the greater whole, and that experiences in this life that other people may spend their whole lives pursuing (like the Emperor's status or Temperence's balance) are ultimately trivial and detract from the understanding of the whole. He cuts himself off from what we see as the real world, to explore the world beyond that. It has nothing to do with 1984, but it just sort of made sense to me.

Star Spirit	28 Nov 2003
You guys have some great guesses! Still not yet though--but you're on the right track.

Diana	28 Nov 2003
Emperor reversed?

Diana	28 Nov 2003
please delete (double post)

Dark_angel	28 Nov 2003
King of Swords? He tries to exert his will on his subjects, in the belief that this will make him the Emperor, and his subjects obediant.

jmd	29 Nov 2003
the Fool :D? ...any chance of a clue?

Star Spirit	29 Nov 2003
Still not! :) Okay, okay, you guys deserve a clue. It's a trump.

jmd	29 Nov 2003
...OK... In the context of the book, part of the picture is utter 'loved' intoxication with Bigbrother... I'll try something radical: The lover/s?

Star Spirit	29 Nov 2003
Nope :)

gloria	29 Nov 2003
The Hanged Man? It is associated with illusory planet Neptune.

MattDouglas	29 Nov 2003
How about the Tower. The illusions we build always get shattered eventually.

Star Spirit	29 Nov 2003
MattDouglas gets it! Here's why I chose the Tower. The quote (according to Sparknotes) was described as this: "These lines play into the theme of psychological manipulation. In this case, Winston considers the Party's exploitation of its fearful subjects as a means to suppress the intellectual notion of objective reality. If the universe exists only in the mind, and the Party controls the mind, then the Party controls the universe. As Winston thinks, "For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable—what then?" The mathematical sentence 2 + 2 = 5 thus becomes a motif linked to the theme of psychological independence. Early in the novel, Winston writes that "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four." The motif comes full circle at the end of the novel after the torture Winston suffers in the Ministry of Love breaks his soul; he sits at the Chestnut Tree Café and traces "2 + 2 = 5" in the dust on his table." The novel is also largely about war, war dictated to be between whichever countries the Party feels like, and war between the people and the Party. (It's an excellent novel for those who haven't read it). The Tower can be described as (according to Thirteen's Tarot Basics): "A card about war, a war between the structures of lies and the lightning flash of truth. It stands for false concepts and institutions that we take for real. It sometimes takes [a shocking revelation] to see the truth one refuses to see, or to bring down beliefs that are so well constructed." You all did well :) Over to you, MattDouglas.

gloria	29 Nov 2003
Game over.

Star Spirit	29 Nov 2003
This was fun. Thanks guys.

jmd	29 Nov 2003
Nice one, Dead Star... & MattDouglas :)

The What Card Am I? (Lit. Clues) Nov 27- Solved thread was originally posted on 27 Nov 2003 in the Tarot Games & Fun board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Games & Fun, or read more archived threads.