What Card Am I? (Literature Clues)

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 09 Nov 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

jmd	09 Nov 2003
From J. Böhme, De signatura rerum (reprinted in A. Roob's The Hermetic Museum: Alchemy and Mysticism, p412): The inner Mercury is the life of the deity and all Divine Creatures. The outer Mercury is the life of the outer world, and all outer corporeality [...] in growing and procreative things.

firemaiden	10 Nov 2003
Mercury.. hmm... duality... hmmm, XV ?

jmd	10 Nov 2003
I must admit that there have been various cards which this quote evoked, and in considering especially the way in which XV the Devil is at times depicted, especially with the way in which Mercury's caduceus is placed, would make sense and seem so reasonable... but it is not the card I had in mind :)

lunalafey	10 Nov 2003
high priestess?

Dark_angel	10 Nov 2003
The Empress?

firemaiden	10 Nov 2003
Temperance?

jmd	10 Nov 2003
Wonderful possibilities - but no 'correct' suggestion yet. One of the things I personally like about these threads is the way in which it makes me reflect on how each of these is in fact quite a legitimate possibility. With the High Priestess, I can see why from a number of perspectives. Bet is often associated with the High Priestess, and it is at times allocated to Mercury. Also, the two pillars which often adorn the card, and the mosaic pavement, can be seen as the inner and outer aspect. Likewise the Book which she holds, having the inner Life of the Deity, within the folds of its outer cover. As for the Empress, that last clue may easily have indicated this card, with mention of its 'growing and procreative things'. With Temperance, the mixing of the waters, of the inner and the outer, of the Life of the spirit and that of the world... But none of these was the dominant card which sprang to my mind's eye :)

Dark_angel	10 Nov 2003
The Hierophant?

firemaiden	10 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by jmd Wonderful possibilities - but no 'correct' suggestion yet. One of the things I personally like about these threads is the way in which it makes me reflect on how each of these is in fact quite a legitimate possibility. So true, so true, jmd, that is especially true in the literature clues game. :) Well, lets see, dare I guess another... hmm... inner/outer worlds hmmm... this can't possibly be right, but it makes me think of the Star. The starry space is the outer, but also the inner world, if you go within, and travel without, and as she pours her waters onto the earth, she expresses the magic of inner/divine world, earthward.

Diana	10 Nov 2003
This is so hard. Wow.... I wonder if it is my friend, Le Bateleur.

jmd	10 Nov 2003
Not yet... V the Hierophant, XVII the Star, and I the Basteleur - all such plausible suggestions... ... and I thought it would be so briefly seen :) With V, the life of Divine Creatures may be unveiled and spoken off, with XVII, the very Life forces, both inner and outer, flow down from divine mantions to earthly ones, and with I, the Mercurial element so often associated with this card comes to the fore... But no, these, again, are not the predominant Major Arcanus I had in mind. clue 1: Look at a Wirth deck

gloria	10 Nov 2003
The Lovers? Edited to add, (The alchemical marriage between ourselves and the divine.) G.

Black dragon	10 Nov 2003
Erm don't ask me why but all the "inner" and "outer" just made me think of walls, and hence the tower. Again don't ask me why I've thought about it and i don't know why, i'm just hoping its intuition, hoping. Anyway the tower. Black Dragon.

Kiama	10 Nov 2003
The Sun?

skytwig	10 Nov 2003
Mercury...... le Magus :D

Diana	10 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by jmd From J. Böhme, De signatura rerum (reprinted in A. Roob's The Hermetic Museum: Alchemy and Mysticism , p412): The inner Mercury is the life of the deity and all Divine Creatures. The outer Mercury is the life of the outer world, and all outer corporeality [...] in growing and procreative things. Do you mean The Wheel of Fortune????

jmd	10 Nov 2003
VI, XVI, XVIIII, I, X [in diminutive tone:] nope, none of these! Not many left :) so the confusion should be sorted soon... VI the Lover(s) could so much be this, as the young man chooses, it is at times described, between the life of the Spiritual (virtue) or the life of flesh and the world (guess for some of us, this isn't a real either/or :) - as the comment about the Alchemical Union also indicate). XVI the Tower, as described, could very well also apply. As a wall to jump over, or being within and without, seems to indicate both this card and XVIIII the Sun. Also, the inner and outer life implied seems to suggest either of these. I le Magus was one of those I thought would be chosen early on - and it was... but is not it, sorry skytwig (see previous page - makes me think I should list the ones suggested so far, it will make further reflections easier). Now for X the Wheel of Fortune - soooooooooooo close!. On the Wirth deck, this card has the 'stem' of the Wheel as a Mercurial Caduceus, and there certainly appears to be the movement of life, of increase (growth) and decrease - thought in this instance, of fortune... but it wasn't the main or first card which came to my mind... Problem is, I can see I'm going to have to find appropriate ways to justify myself when all this is complete... merde! So, the ones suggested so far which are not the one brought to my mind's eye: I, II, III, V, VI, X, XIIII, XV, XVI, XVII, XVIIII ...we're halfway through the Major Arcana })

Diana	10 Nov 2003
jmd: You are very wicked. Okay, if it's not the Hermit, then I will eat a Tarot deck for breakfast. (That's what I was going to post when I chose the Wheel of Fortune, then changed my mind at the last minute.)

jmd	10 Nov 2003
nooooooooooooooo... a rare opportunity to have had the pleasure of witnessing you eat a deck for breakfast, missed! VIIII the Hermit it is But since I've provided some plausible reason for all the other suggestions, maybe I should wait and see why my suggestion seems also plausible - and it gets me out of needing to justify it in any shape or form... any takers? - please?

firemaiden	10 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by jmd nooooooooooooooo ... a rare opportunity to have had the pleasure of witnessing you eat a deck for breakfast, missed! This is altogether too tragic, Jean-Michel, Diana... I can hardly bear this disappointment... *Firemaiden runs away and throws self lamenting on a pile of un-eaten tarot cards*

Diana	11 Nov 2003
Just woke up and I am most relieved. Bread and jam it will be again for breakfast! :) jmd: Because so many cards had been taken, I decided to forget about the meanings of the cards. And I just looked at the pictures. I took out my Wirth deck and looked slowly at the cards. I shook my head eight times. When I got to the Hermit, my head started nodding. (Here is a link to all of his cards, including the Hermit for those poor unfortunate people who don't have an Oswald Wirth deck.) http://www.geocities.com/mirkwood222/ow0.html Because of his cloak..... his cloak that separates him and protects him from the outer world. Because of his light that lights his inner world but also the outer world. But mainly because of his cloak. Also, Mercury is important in Alchemy (I think..... - I'm a very lousy Alchemist, please excuse me). The Hermit has always reminded me of an alchemist and a scientist - searching for that perfect formula (whether it be the material formula, or the spiritual formula). And then, silly me, I turned over the next card and saw the caduceus on the Wheel of Fortune, so I changed my mind. That will teach me to listen to myself! Now it's my turn again. Hooray! :)

jmd	11 Nov 2003
Now off those cards, feuerdame, and back to singing for those fortunate enough to be in hearing range! The link does not work for me, Diana, but I have attached a copy of Wirth's VIIII the Hermit (v1). The cloak, and the Life as represented by the light of the lantern, emerging deep within, yet shining upon the outer, is part of the main reason...

gloria	11 Nov 2003
Tough one that JMD, but most enjoyable. And I especially enjoyed your commentary on the other cards offered. Gloria.

jmd	11 Nov 2003
thank you... I must admit that I didn't realise, until everyone started posting, that it would be so hard - and really enjoyed seeing how this little quote could so well be reflected in so many cards. So thanks to everyone :)

Diana	11 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by jmd The cloak, and the Life as represented by the light of the lantern, emerging deep within, yet shining upon the outer, is part of the main reason... You think you're going to get away with "The cloak (...........) is part of the main reason..." ? So what are the other parts? (Pity my link doesn't work. It was a wonderful link with all the cards shown. It worked for months, and I even checked it when I posted it. And a few hours later.... pffff! a puff of smoke and it had gone.) I'll be posting my literature clue tomorrow - but I'm not good at finding clues - they are so obvious!

firemaiden	12 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana You think you're going to get away with "The cloak (...........) is part of the main reason..." ? So what are the other parts? Oui, oui, Diana...tell him, I'm not climbing off this pile of un-eaten Tarot cards, until he tells us the other parts!

jmd	12 Nov 2003
...and I thought I would get away with it... The inner Mercury is the life of the deity and all Divine Creatures. The outer Mercury is the life of the outer world, and all outer corporeality [...] in growing and procreative things. Here is an attempt - but please remember that as I read the passage, I did not try to exegete nor analyse the words, rather, the image from the 'impulse' in the words lead to a visualisation of the Hermit - in various guises, not a specific deck. But here goes: 'The inner Mercury...' Here already in the opening word was the inner Self, who, as Mercury, and hence Hermes, is Trismegistus. Not many cards can elicit this venerable aspect of Mercury, but certainly the aged old man, who carries the Lamp, can... '...is the life of the deity and all Divine creatures...' Life and Light are oft times closely connected. The inner life illumines, as the inner light warms and enlivens. Again, the Lamp of the Hermit seems to here emerge. In Wirth type decks especially, where the inner Light of the Lamp is also protected by the cloak, this seems so. '... The outer Mercury...' as opposed to the inner Light, which is sheltered within the confines of the heart, the outer Mercury may be depicted by the Light gently taken and illuminating outwards. In a number of decks, the Snake (associated with the Hebrew letter Teth) is at times depicted at the foot of the Hermit's Staff, symbolically again recalling Mercury's or Hermes's Caduceus. '...is the life of the outer world, and all outer corporeality' Mercurius, related to the intellect, brings outer reflections upon the world. Hence grows the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (again snake on Staff), which arises after much pondering and incarnated life - hence age and the Hermit. Life of outer corporeality also indicates passage of time, and again thus the aged individual, for all corporeality passes away with time, but the Life of the Spirit within shines on ever so more brightly. '... in growing and procreative things...' Growth again implies ageing, as does 'procreative things'... _____ Hope these reflections give some indication as to the ways in which my inner picturing of the Hermit resulted from the text, especially its opening passage, but also in its development... ...now will you get off that pile!?!?!

firemaiden	12 Nov 2003
*firemaiden arises singing from the heap of cards, and feels sublimely nourished by these poetic and erudite words...*

Diana	12 Nov 2003
Thanks jmd! *Diana goes off singing: Off I go with the body in the bag, the body in the bag, tra la la."

The What Card Am I? (Literature Clues) thread was originally posted on 09 Nov 2003 in the Tarot Games & Fun board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Games & Fun, or read more archived threads.