New game - Literature quote - Solved

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 23 Dec 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Diana	23 Dec 2003
Chiang spoke slowly and watched the younger gull ever so carefully. "To fly as fast as thought, to anywhere that is," he said, "you must begin by knowing that you have already arrived..." (From Jonathan Livingston Seagull)

Jewel-ry	23 Dec 2003
8 wands? J :)

Bluemanticore	23 Dec 2003
Wheel of Fortune?

Minderwiz	23 Dec 2003
Knight of Swords

Diana	23 Dec 2003
Not the 8 of Wands. Not the Wheel of Fortune. Not the Knight of Swords. (If people feel so inclined, it would be interesting to hear the reasoning behind why they chose the cards.... but it is not essential. Those who do give their reasoning get extra points though. And the person who gets the most points gets a slab of Lindt chocolate. Lindt chocolate is one of the best commercial chocolates one can buy in Switzerland. Quite heavenly!)

Minderwiz	23 Dec 2003
The World The end of the journey, attainment and fulfillment - so knows himself - completeness

Dark_angel	23 Dec 2003
The Pope/Hierophant? The quote makes me think of an older person (or gull) imparting crucial mystical knowledge to a pupil.

jmd	23 Dec 2003
Already arrived? The Fool !

Diana	23 Dec 2003
Minderwiz: It could indeed have been the World. That did cross my mind, especially what you say about "knowing oneself". But I can't tell you why I didn't choose it as I fear that may give away too many clues. I'll explain when the game is over. Dark_Angel: The Pope/Hierophant would have been a good choice if I had been wanting to emphasise Chiang. But it is the actual words he imparts that I am concentrating on.

Diana	23 Dec 2003
jmd: Didn't see your post. Maybe you were posting at the same time as I, or else you were flying so fast I didn't see you. The Fool would have been an excellent choice for this card. I give you an extra point for this. It fits it very well... except for the fact that the Fool is not really interested in going anywhere, is he? Try some more. (I do enjoy reading all your explanations - it really helps for a deeper understanding of the cards, which is why I love these threads so much.)

jmd	23 Dec 2003
Well.... the first card: I the Bateleur ;)

jmd	23 Dec 2003
oops... you want my explanation!?! Jonathan Seagull is beginning to really learn to fly. He uses his mind, to fly as fast as thought, to already have the completion there, maneouvered at will...

Diana	23 Dec 2003
Chiang spoke slowly and watched the younger gull ever so carefully. "To fly as fast as thought, to anywhere that is," he said, "you must begin by knowing that you have already arrived..." jmd: The Bateleur, before he learns to fly, has to light the spark between his Baton and the Coin in his hand. Then, and only then, will spirit and matter join. And until the spirit and matter have joined, flying is, quite frankly, out of the question for our little friend. But it was an interesting choice. Thank you for making me think. (And I am seriously reconsidering, you may be pleased to hear, and in light of what I wrote above, the elements Air and Fire.) Now I'm going to bed and will answer any new guesses tomorrow. Good night! :)

MattDouglas	23 Dec 2003
Justice!!! Flight requires a balance of both wings just as the scales of justices are balance, and the desire to fly be balanced with the knowing that one has already arrived.

jmd	23 Dec 2003
...well, if the Bateleur has 'to light the spark between his Baton and the Coin' (notice I have left out the three words which follow), it has to be: VI The Lovers }) Let's hope he makes the right choice!

Minderwiz	24 Dec 2003
The Emperor - rational thought, mind over matter, order imposed on the world and also has connotations of achievement

Simone	24 Dec 2003
The Sun? because of the fulfillment of destiny ("you must begin by knowing that you have already arrived..."), its highly creative and spiritual energy and transformational powers? Light and Love Simone

Dark_angel	24 Dec 2003
The Chariot? I'm useless at this game, but I just thought of the basic principle of travel?

Minderwiz	24 Dec 2003
I'll have another guess as Diana's having a sleep in :) King of Swords

Diana	24 Dec 2003
You're all wrong. But it's not your fault. I'm not sure that my meaning makes much sense except to me. But there are only 78 cards in a deck. You're bound to find the right one some time. And so many cards fit this quote. (Maybe it's a good quote for all of the arcana? Maybe it's the Complete-Tarot-Arcana-Quote-of-The-Year.) Justice? Interesting. I hadn't thought of Justice. Of course, one would need perfect cosmic equilibrium to have already arrived. Lovers? I think with the Lovers, there is always a loss of something. We have to leave something behind. I don't think that Jonathan needs to leave anything behind - I think he takes everything with him. Emperor? Now that's a cool idea. But I think the Emperor reigns more over the material world, doesn't he? (???????) Sun? Wow, now that's a great guess. Pure energy. All energy is linked (that's how Tarot works, no?) Hmmm, I almost regret that I didn't choose the Sun. Simone gets three extra points. The Chariot? Dark_angel: why do you say you're useless in this game? I thought you had won them before? This is also a great guess, because the Chariot can move fast, between the heaven and the earth. He kind of mediates between them. His journey is always triumphant (except when it isn't :laugh: :D ). That would also have been a good card to choose which I hadn't thought of. You get one extra point (no, two extra points because tomorrow is Christmas.) I hope you're not all going to cry blue murder when you hear what I chose. :( But if you don't agree with me, I promise you all I will not send myself a slab of Lindt chocolate.

Minderwiz	24 Dec 2003
I'll have another guess as Diana's having a sleep in :) King of Swords Analyatical mind, expertise - knows when they've arrived and has the intellect to control the process.

gloria	24 Dec 2003
Nine/Discs? Here is someone who has ‘mastered the self’ A person who is completely in control of his/her destiny. Knowing where she’s at. Being self- aware.

Simone	24 Dec 2003
Nine of wands? with the combination of all conscious and unsconscious forces, you'll be "complete" and able to develop your full potential (fly) Light and love Simone

Diana	24 Dec 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Minderwiz I'll have another guess as Diana's having a sleep in :) King of Swords Analyatical mind, expertise - knows when they've arrived and has the intellect to control the process. Minderwiz gets an extra point for teaching us that the King of Swords has an "Analyatical" mind. (God, how I love typos! :D ). Interesting choice, Minderwiz. But I think the King of Swords would be too intellectual to really get the flying bit. Nine of Coins: Too anchored in the ground, I would think, for such mastery. Nine of Wands: Gosh, I am learning so much in this thread. Here is perfect control of energies. But perhaps Jonathan has to learn how to not want to control...... (but how do I know - I haven't mastered what Chiang is talking about.) Nope, it's none of the above. Do you want a clue?

Simone	24 Dec 2003
Well then, before you give out a clue, I'll go for another try: eight of pentacles? 8 for balance, balance of all levels of being, perfect care without controlling: the letting go of control but not of direction... Light and love Simone

Minderwiz	24 Dec 2003
You haven't mastered what Chaing is talking about !- How do you expect us to then :) :) :) :) The Hermit - to know that you've arrived requires inner guidance, wisdom, a search for mystical enlightenment and being attuned to the spiritual dimension of the universe in order to make the journey. Assuming that Chaing is talking about spritual journeys!

MattDouglas	24 Dec 2003
"begin by knowing...." Ace of Swords.

Minderwiz	24 Dec 2003
Well I'm off to hang up my stocking shortly, I've left the mince pies and sherry out -but first one last guess Six of Swords - basically because I'm running out of ideas and it's loosely linked with travel, gaining perspective and objectivity and old Chaing was probably taking about taking a boat ride but got confused and said flying instead.

Diana	24 Dec 2003
None of the above. (Gosh, I'm starting to get worried here..... have I been misunderstanding this card all along?) Could most definitely have been the Hermit. Why didn't I think of him? Simone: the 9 of Discs/Coins/Pentacles had already been chosen before by gloria. Ace of Swords: that would fit as well. :D Six of Swords: yup, that could be it.... except with sixes there is always that element of doubt.... perhaps not enough Love and too much mental conflict? You guys are confusing me..... Well, there are about 60 cards still to choose from.

Jewel-ry	24 Dec 2003
Diana, Has to be the Hanged Man because he has to accept himself in order to move on. J :)

Diana	24 Dec 2003
jewel-ry: No, not the Hanged Man. Although seeing the world from such a different perspective would surely aid him greatly! :) (Dear jewel-ry: you are so close to getting it. And not because of the Hanged Man, nor your explanation!)

jmd	24 Dec 2003
Cards which fit the description (})) but which have not been correct so far: 8 Wands; 9 Wands; 8 Coins/Disks; 9 Coins/Disks; Ace of Swords; Six Swords; Knight of Swords; King of Swords; I the Magician; IIII the Emperor; V Pope; VI the Lovers; VII the Chariot; VIII Justice; VIIII the Hermit; X Wheel of Fortune; XII the Hanged Man; XVIIII the Sun; XXI World; Fool. Hope this list helps :) 'Chiang spoke slowly and watched the younger gull ever so carefully. "To fly as fast as thought, to anywhere that is," he said, "you must begin by knowing that you have already arrived..."' Now for a try myself: The watching over a young one makes me think of a number of cards with parental qualities... yet, it also seems that what is of greater import is the guidance given, assisting Jonathan with a state to be in before he proceeds what is effectively an initiation... so how about: II La Pances/the High Priestess?

Minderwiz	24 Dec 2003
Well I've finished the sherry and mince pies and I'm off to bed but a last vain thought Strength - Ability to overcome problems through willpower - Faith in your own abilities, inner strength, energy and vitality - all of which you need to follow Chaing's flying act and knowing that you've got there.

jmd	24 Dec 2003
[i was fluctuating between strength and the high priestess, minderwiz, and must admit i had to relook at my post to remember which i posted after seeing yours - the inner trust and strength required in order to 'already be there' is certainly wonderfully represented by this card...]

MattDouglas	24 Dec 2003
How `bout Death? In order to fly the gull must die to the idea that it can't fly, and live in the idea that it is so capable that flying is effortless. Thanks jmd for compacting the list of what's already guessed!!

Simone	25 Dec 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana Simone: the 9 of Discs/Coins/Pentacles had already been chosen before by gloria. Diana, my guess was the 8, not the 9 :) I'll try with the Prince of Wands then - because of his intensity and moving forward quickly... and of his capacity to see the world from a higher point of view Light and Love Simone

Diana	25 Dec 2003
Oh Simone! I am so sorry!!!! One extra point for Simone to make up for my stupid mistake. Have any of you guessed right? I'll have to answer you later, because I need to go and buy a Christmas cake at the bakery before they all sell out! HAPPY CHRISTMAS TO ALL OF THE LITERATURE QUOTES FANS!!! You're the best buddies in the world. :) Maybe if we listen really attentively to Chiang, we will be able to meet up somewhere today and drink a toast altogether and no-one will even notice we have gone, because by the time they notice we will already be back home. See you later!

spoonbender	25 Dec 2003
(Mmmm, christmas cake!) I'll have a guess too (my first guess would have been Strength though): the Star. "Already arrived", hope for the future, guidance, spirituality, etc... Merry Christmas, everyone! Spoonbender edited to add: just remembered, the little bird in the tree on the card fits in really really well with the extract from the book

Minderwiz	25 Dec 2003
HAPPY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well I'm cooking the Christmas dinner and up to now things are not going so well. The Turkey's bigger than last year and won't fit in the Rottiserie!! So I've spent the morning cleaning the main oven and then hunting for an oven tray big enough! And to cap it all Diana's keeping us in suspense - down in Oz Christmas is nearly finished and jmd still doesn't know if he's won :( A Christmas guess, just in case the others are wrong - The Star, I've nearly posted that a couple of times -you need to see yourself as part of the cosmic pattern - in harmony with the universe to do all that flitting about

Jewel-ry	25 Dec 2003
Now, I'm not jumping on the bandwagon here, but I woke in the night and though STAR too. We cant all be wrong.....can we??? Diana? J :)

Diana	25 Dec 2003
sniff.... None of the above. If you want a clue, let me know.....

spoonbender	25 Dec 2003
Diana, I'm ready for a clue!

Diana	25 Dec 2003
spoonbender: I gave a massive one to jewel-ry at the top of page 4.

Minderwiz	25 Dec 2003
This is turning into a nightmare ( :) )so Nine of Swords Reason (1) Jonathan is depressed that he will never have Chaing's mastery, every time he tries he gets his beak stuck in his wing and he dreads his next lesson. However, things always seem darkest before dawn and he will realise that he can do it! Reason (2) You 'won' the last game with the nine of Swords LOL edited to add: As we didn't get the previous 'massive' clue perhaps you could give us an eeny weeny tiny one - pleassssssssssssse

Diana	25 Dec 2003
Oh Minderwiz! You made me laugh so loud that the cat woke up. And he's normally a very deep sleeper! :) Two extra points for Minderwiz. I want everyone to take out their decks and put the cards in order first. Then you turn the cards over slowly slowly, one by one, with method. I'm sure you'll get it that way. Jewel-ry is the clue here..........

Le_Corsair	25 Dec 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana Oh Minderwiz! You made me laugh so loud that the cat woke up. And he's normally a very deep sleeper! :) Two extra points for Minderwiz. I want everyone to take out their decks and put the cards in order first. Then you turn the cards over slowly slowly, one by one, with method. I'm sure you'll get it that way. Jewel-ry is the clue here.......... Which order, Marseilles or RWS? :D Bob :THERM

MattDouglas	25 Dec 2003
HAPPY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!!!!!!! The Moon! It reflects the light of the sun. One looks at the moon and knows the sun is shining somewhere else, hence day has already arrived albeit on amother part of the planet. Also, the moon in The Moon looks awfully sunny, as if the sun is already there and the sky around it (in the RWS, anyway) is light blue, like a daytime sunny sky.

jmd	25 Dec 2003
Updated list of cards which fit the description (})) but which have not been correct so far: 8 Wands; 9 Wands; Knight Wands; 8 Coins/Disks; 9 Coins/Disks; Ace of Swords; Six Swords; Nine Swords; Knight of Swords; King of Swords; I the Magician; II High Priestess; IIII the Emperor; V Pope; VI the Lovers; VII the Chariot; VIII Justice; VIIII the Hermit; X Wheel of Fortune; XI Strength; XII the Hanged Man; XIII Death; XVII Star; XVIIII the Sun; XXI World; Fool. Given the 'massive clue', I would have also said the Moon - though not because of the quote ;) Now, when I look at jewel-ry's avatar, what other card comes to mind which has not as yet been suggested? How about III the Empress? (this would also fit the 'parental' aspect I had earlier mentioned, for she is oft represented pregnant). edited to alter the list to exclude suggestions to which Diana has not yet excluded, and adding colour to my suggestion - following MattDouglas's comment below :)

Minderwiz	25 Dec 2003
Queen of Cups Even though the seagulls are male the Queen can represent psychic abilties, empathic powers, intuitive nature - the sort of skills that are implied in Chaing's statement she also has a jewel in her crown - like jewel-ry (and unlike the other court cards).

MattDouglas	25 Dec 2003
Excuse jmd, Diana hasn't said the Moon is incorrect yet! Sure, the odds are slim, but let her poo-poo my answer before it gets added to the incorrect list. Don't get me wrong, I am thankful for your compilations are incorrect answers, so we don't accidently guess the same one twice. I think people can read what's been guessed after you're compiled list. I might suggest claiming your "Empress" answer in a separate post so that it's not skipped over thinking your post was nothing but a list of incorrect answers. This way we don't have the mix-up of a correct answer being overlooked as it was with the Hobbit quote game a few weeks ago.

Minderwiz	25 Dec 2003
My understanding is that the Empress' crown contains the seven stars or planets, rather than jewels but it does depend on what you call a jewel :) The King of Cups also has something that might be a jewel but to me the Queen's crown looks a more likelier bet! edited to add that My post on the Queen of Cups must have been at the same time as jmd's list as I had not seen that he also picked on jewel-ry's Avatar

Jewel-ry	26 Dec 2003
Ooo, I feel so important!! But very confused :confused: J :)

Diana	26 Dec 2003
jewel-ry: Of course you are important. You are indeed, our Queen of Cups. :) Now, I know that most of you are far more interested in knowing who will be receiving the Lindt chocolate than which card I actually chose for this Literature Quote. But I will do the tally later. }) jmd can go and search for a new Quote. It is indeed . (jewel-ry's avatar but especially her title were the clue here.) Why did I choose this card? I suppose you all deserve an explanation. Bear with me please: The Empress is card no III. The top of the Triangle. The Holy Ghost in the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. She is the daughter of Spirit herself. She represents the physical, intellectual and spiritual states of Man. She represents also pure intelligence, and not only of the intellect. The Empress is Athena - the Goddess of wisdom. She is accompanied by an eagle on her shield (in the Marseilles). The eagle is the bird who flies the highest, who is one of the fastest birds in flight, and who, according to legend, can even look upon the Sun and not be blinded. The Papess teaches us. With the Empress, we understand what we have been taught. I think the Empress leads us consciously to the understanding of Cosmic Laws. Edmond Delcamp says (translation below): "..... Celui-là qui, vivant, aura suivi la leçon de l'Impératrice pourra dans cette solitude se trouver non pas seul mais, par une espèce de dédoublement conscient, se trouver en présence de lui-même ou plus exactement de ce qui aura été lui-même, de ce qui aura été la préparation de ce qu'il est devenu, de ce qui aura été l'évolution qu'il aura connu." Translation (the best I could do: ..... He who, during his lifetime, has put into practice the lesson taught by the Empress will, in this solitude, find himself not alone, but, by means of a conscious splitting (doubling) of himself, find himself in his own presence, or, to be more precise, in the presence of what will have been himself, of what will have been the preparation of what he has become, what will have been the evolution of what he will have known."

Diana	26 Dec 2003
And the winner of the Lindt chocolate is.......... MINDERWIZ! With 22 points! (The crowd goes mad here - applause and stomping of feet - and cries of "Minderwiz for Emperor" are heard.) It will be sent next week. :) Do you prefer dark chocolate, milk chocolate, with or without nuts?

Minderwiz	26 Dec 2003
Thank you so much for this award - I accept it not just for me alone but for all those who took part in making this thread the most successful thread since the last one. I would particularly like to thank jmd for posting the long lists fo cards that had been chosen and thus saving lots of hours in trying to remember, and for also guessing the correct answer. I thought of the Empress but discarded it for the Queen of Cups, however, even if I had gone for it, jmd would have got there first. I'd also like to thank the King of Swords, Emperor, Star, Knight of Swords, the Hermit (if he wouldn't mind stepping into the limelight for a moment), Strength (obviously a Leo fan) and indeed the whole World for being my guesses, not to mention the six of Swords. I'd also like to thank my family for allowing me to post guesses, whilst cooking. I will now suffer a nine of Swords moment as I realise that this thread is at an end but realise that before the New Year jmd will start a new one. and finally - Dark Chocolate with Nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Diana	26 Dec 2003
The crowd breaks down with emotion and out come the Kleenex.

Dark_angel	26 Dec 2003
What a brilliant quote Diana! And what a hard one, though I see it so clearly now.

Jewel-ry	26 Dec 2003
That was brilliant Diana, I kept missing great chunks of the thread due to family commitments and the fact that xmas got very slightly in the way!! J :)

jmd	26 Dec 2003
Wonderful, Diana - and thanks jewel-ry for the assistance... and congratulations Minderwiz - enjoy one on my behalf too, please :) ...now to go and find a really easy quote :D

The New game - Literature quote - Solved thread was originally posted on 23 Dec 2003 in the Tarot Games & Fun board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Games & Fun, or read more archived threads.