New Literature Clue (Jan. 3) - Solved

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Jan 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Diana	03 Jan 2004
From "Long Walk to Freedom", by Nelson Mandela When I walked out of prison, that was my mission, to liberate the oppressed and the oppressor both. Some say that has now been achieved. But I know that that is not the case. The truth is that we are not yet free; we have merely achieved the freedom to be free, the right not to be oppressed. We have not taken the final step of our journey, but the first step on a longer and even more difficult road. For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others. The true test of our devotion to freedom is just beginning.

Agathe	03 Jan 2004
Hello Diana :) For some reason the first card that I thought about was The Devil. So that's my guess. Blessings, Agathe

Jewel-ry	03 Jan 2004
Hi Diana, The fool - liberation, just starting on a journey. J :)

gloria	03 Jan 2004
How about 6/Swords? A difficult journey, (towards complete freedom?) but the potential is there.

MattDouglas	03 Jan 2004
Hermit! Sure he's free up in the hills, but he needs to go back down to share his wisdom with others.

Diana	03 Jan 2004
So, we have our old friend the Devil, the Fool, the Hermit.... and the 6 of Swords. The Devil is interesting.... but there is that sense of transgressing laws, that to me is quite important in the Devil card (when it's read alone of course - when it's read with other cards, this is not necessarily the case) that I don't see in this quote. The Fool. No, not really, because the Fool has no duties, no responsibilities. He's free..... it would be more what Mandela would have felt perhaps when he was released from prison, but I reckon immediately the enormity of his task took away this sense of release. (Also, I'm as stubborn as a donkey - to me the Fool doesn't begin the Tarot journey - he ends it.) The Hermit: that's clever too. But it's not the card I was thinking of. Perhaps because the Hermit is too solitary. 6 of Swords. Great guess! But wrong as well. I think I didn't think of the 6 of Swords because to me there is a sense of choice in the 6 of Swords.... here there is no choice. There is only one way forward. (If someone doesn't agree with what I say, please speak up! :) ).

firemaiden	03 Jan 2004
Eight of swords?

Diana	03 Jan 2004
firemaiden: Welcome to the thread. :) 8 of Swords. What a wonderful choice (although it's not the card I was thinking of.) It has that element of Justice in it - the moment of cristallisation where one knows that one has reached such an important stage on one's journey. But the sense of balance is too strong here - there is no balance yet in what Mandela and his countrymen are attempting to achieve.

snuffy	03 Jan 2004
hrmm, i'm new to this, but the first card that i thought of was the death card.

Diana	03 Jan 2004
Oh snuffy! A warm welcome to you too! :) Now why didn't I think of the Death card - it fits in quite beautifully. Perhaps because Mandela says: "We have not taken the final step of our journey". I think with the Death card there is that finality which is not here. But please guess some more - you were nearly spot on there.

Mystic Zyl	03 Jan 2004
judgement

jmd	03 Jan 2004
How about VI the Lovers? The first step to freedom as the freedom to choose.. indeed a long journey with many perils, but one which has already recognised the need to make that difficult choice...

Diana	03 Jan 2004
Judgement: I think that would be the end of the road... a promise of rest. There is no promise of that here. Lovers: Yes, this is a labour of Love... and a road must be walked down. But there is nothing to leave behind... there is not that sense of sacrifice really that one gets with the Lovers. There is no tugging of heartstrings here..... The choice has already been made. You guys are great.... you all have very beautiful thinking caps.

jmd	03 Jan 2004
A true leader liberates the oppressed and oppressor alike: IIII the Emperor?

Diana	03 Jan 2004
Darn! Why didn't I think of the Emperor? That would have been just perfect! But I thought of another card. Woe is me.

gloria	03 Jan 2004
The Tower?

jmd	03 Jan 2004
last attempt... I the Magician ;)

Diana	03 Jan 2004
The Tower is liberating indeed - and certainly implies a new-found freedom and the liberty to enjoy it and to develop it, especially with the Star that comes directly after. But it wasn't the card I chose. Great guess though. The Magician? :confused: Oh, you mean the Bateleur? :laugh: Nope.... he hasn't been to prison yet.

Mystic Zyl	03 Jan 2004
4 of wands, long road to achievement but on the correct path.

gloria	03 Jan 2004
The Moon? The crayfish's ascension from 'the dark night of the soul' towards the 'Light' (freedom)and rebirth.

Diana	04 Jan 2004
The 4 of Wands would have been nearly perfect! The energy required is exactly this, and the goals are clearly defined.... But there is an element lacking here.... I think in the 4 of Wands (within the context of the quote) we have the present and the future, but the past is lacking. The Moon? That would have been a good choice too. (Gee, it's like my last game - so many cards fit. Does everyone find this when they choose quotes????). But there is not enough clarity in the Moon. Any more takers?

gloria	04 Jan 2004
The Sun maybe? It is a card of liberation and freedom. Have just read what you had to say about 4/Wands Diana so shall have to rethink.

Diana	04 Jan 2004
Quote: Originally posted by gloria Have just read what you had to say about 4/Wands Diana so shall have to rethink. Then you may possibly get it next time....... The Sun is not it. The Sun is too bright here.

gloria	04 Jan 2004
9/Wands? This guy has loyalty,and strength of character and will stand by what he believes in. Plus, doesn't look as if his battles are over yet.

Mystic Zyl	04 Jan 2004
The Emporer, leader of his people.

Diana	04 Jan 2004
9 of Wands? gloria, I think you're referring to the image in an RWS type of deck. I don't use those decks. But of course, a 9 of Batons can certainly be linked to this quote..... it's a kind of a "thoughtful" card which speaks of wisdom and action. But it's not the card I was thinking of. Emperor: Mystic Zyl, jmd already chose that card and I thought that it would have been a PERFECT choice. Trouble is, that was not the card I had in mind. So let's say that you and jmd have kind of won, but I think the card I had in mind is also a good one. So you'll have to keep on guessing.

gloria	04 Jan 2004
The World? - opposing human conditions - Dominion and Slavery.

Mystic Zyl	04 Jan 2004
I am not sure if you are looking at the total situation or the person as to his situation. But, I will say Nelson's appears to be the Hanged Man....he sacrificed his life for the greater good of his race. Hanged Man! Laughing, well I at least jmd and I sort of think alike? I apologize about guessing the same card. I just put down my gut reaction to the quote without checking the answers.

Diana	04 Jan 2004
Mystic: It's not the Hanged Man, because it's really the Quote that is of concern here. But Mandela would make a wonderful Hanged Man indeed... gloria: Not the World - After the world, what is there left to accomplish?

Mystic Zyl	04 Jan 2004
Strength to carry forward, faith in that good will prevail, courage that even if the opponent appears to be stronger through perseverance they can be conquered. This is my last educated guess for the day. Thanks

gloria	04 Jan 2004
5/Wands? Struggle and aggravation, opposition to that which limits one's freedom.

Jewel-ry	04 Jan 2004
seven of wands (oops I mean batons) - defending his beliefs but there is still struggle - some breakthrough! J :)

Diana	04 Jan 2004
Not Strength, not 5 of Wands, not 7 of Watons (I mean Bands, oops... Batons). Darn, you people are making me question my understanding of Tarot cards....... Have I missed the mark so much?

snuffy	04 Jan 2004
oo, what about the star? i think it was on thirteen's tarot basics, but i remember reading someone's take on the card that said that the star merely shows the future, and that we must make it what we want it to be. besides, he breifly mentions getting out of prison-- psh! helloooo star! (just kidding; actually, freedom and the hope that the star brings are related, don't you think?)

Diana	04 Jan 2004
Oh snuffy! The Star would be very appropriate indeed. But it's not the one I chose. :( (Still a few dozen cards to choose from).

snuffy	04 Jan 2004
hahaha poor diana! eventually we'll get it, i'm sure! ...even if it is our 78th try :joke:

Diana	04 Jan 2004
To help you out, the cards that you have guessed already are: Magician, Emperor, Lovers, Hermit, Strength, Hanged Man, Death, Devil, Tower, Star, Moon, Sun, Judgement, World, Fool. 6 of Swords, 8 of Swords. 4 of Batons, 5 of Batons, 7 of Batons, 9 of Batons

Mystic Zyl	04 Jan 2004
7 of Pentacles

MattDouglas	04 Jan 2004
How abot the Chariot!!! Chariot is a card of departure on the journey, and the vehicle necessary to make it; but of course, there's more to go.

Lorem	04 Jan 2004
How about 10 of Wands? Completion of a task and a reaching of a milestone (Mandela out of prison and toppling apartheid), but now a long walk back home on weary feet.

Diana	04 Jan 2004
Oh you guys are so clever! Gee, how I love all these different perspectives. Lorem: Welcome to Aeclectic. I am honoured that you chose this thread to make your first post :) . I hope you'll find time to go the New Members section and introduce yourself. And you've really got very close to the correct answer..... None of you have guessed it yet though! :D

MattDouglas	05 Jan 2004
Knight of Swords!!!! He's free, dashing, adventurous and determined but has not yet fully matured into kingship.

Dark Eyes	05 Jan 2004
My guess is the Hierophant....... There is an element of a saintly leader or mentor in Mandela, He will lead and achieve, but it takes time and patience. Just when it appears that all is achieved, the road continues further and the ending is just the beginning of the next road.

Diana	05 Jan 2004
Not the Knight of Swords. Not the Hierophant. Both, as usual have elements which fit. Seeing as this clue has proved difficult to guess, perhaps I should give a reminder here. Please keep in mind that I do NOT use pictorial minors (i.e. I use so-called unillustrated minors). And also that I do not follow the RWS tradition. However, when you do guess the card, I do believe you will be able to fit it very well with the RWS tradition as well (I think.....).

Dark Eyes	05 Jan 2004
Yes, Welcome Loren to the forum, hope you have as much fun as we all do !! :) I wonder if it could be the Ace of swords? The Ace of swords to me means the beginning of something obviously, but there is an elelment of cutting through the crap with the sword too. Of having the courage to go forth and make a difference in the world, to lead and encourage strength.

snuffy	05 Jan 2004
hmmm, i was thinking of it being an ace as well. nelson kind of "planted the seed" for freedom, and he talks about how it's not true freedom yet, only the freedom to be free. if not the ace of swords... the ace of... batons?

gloria	05 Jan 2004
There are lines in 'Tarot of the Magi' that make me think it could be Temperance! But believe me, I'm not expecting to be right. :(

Dark_angel	05 Jan 2004
Eight of Wands? Eights relate to Strength or Justice (both applicable to him), and he had the courage to take action for his beliefs.

Diana	05 Jan 2004
No, none of the above. Here is an updated list of the cards already used: Magician, Pope/Hierophant, Emperor, Lovers, Chariot, Hermit, Strength, Hanged Man, Death, Temperance, Devil, Tower, Star, Moon, Sun, Judgement, World, Fool. Ace of Swords, 6 of Swords, 8 of Swords, Knight of Swords Ace of Batons, 4 of Batons, 5 of Batons, 7 of Batons, 8 of Batons, 9 of Batons, 10 of Batons 7 of Coins

firemaiden	05 Jan 2004
How bout the ten of swords? I would otherwise have said Death... Thinking about Mandela's words, they express the death-ish feelings I've been having about stuff happening with me...a slicing away, a tying the noose on the past... It brings freedom. But what emptiness... the freedom to be free... now we have to go on living... its horrible... I'm looking around for new chains. The ten of swords describes a similar (but I don't know the Marseilles meanings Diana, forgive me) moment of death, where the old has been destroyed, and now the new freedom must be inhabited, and ordered... where to start. I think I'll just stay here on the ground awhile...

gloria	05 Jan 2004
The Wheel being number 10 first of the double numbers symbolizes a new beginning as well as completion of the earlier cards. The second half of Mandela's quest has now begun.

Diana	05 Jan 2004
firemaiden: You have guessed well! :) The 10 of Swords it is. Why did I choose the 10 of Swords? Well, when I read this quote, to me it seemed clear that it was a 10 - a cycle was over, but a new one was starting at the same time. Only it was not a Wheel of Fortune kind of 10 - this was not just Lady Fortuna playing with our lives - there was a definite deliberate plan here. So I had the choice of the other 10s. 10 of Cups was out. No time for too many emotions here - although of course, one does need great Love to achieve such greatness. 10 of Batons could have done the trick, only there was not that element of Mental Strategy - I was looking for something that needed to show not only the hard slogging that will be required, but also the sharp mental acuity required for such a task. The 10 of Coins is not idealistic enough. HOWEVER!!! I found the 10 of Swords to be just perfect. I will explain why by translating something from the book by Alain Brêthes, "L'interprétation des Arcanes Mineurs des Nombres et des Quatre Eléments" because he explains more or less what I would like to explain, only he explains it better: "(.......) one cannot stop and rest to savour the fruits of one's work, because the 10 [of swords] incites us to go even further in our accomplishments. (.........) If one halts one's progression, even momentarily, one can lose sight of a part of what one has already acquired. One has chosen a path that cannot be abandoned. (........) One could ignore [the objectives], but the light of these that is glimpsed, and which shines with such intensity, means that one cannot resist it......." Firemaiden: Are you game to start up a new thread? I'll conclude my post with the last paragraph of Mandela's book. I have walked that long road to freedom. I have tried not to falter; I have made missteps along the way. But I have discovered the secret that after climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb. I have taken a moment here to rest, to steal a view of the glorious vista that surrounds me, to look back on the distance I have come. But I can rest only for a moment, for with freedom comes responsibilities, and I dare not linger, for my long walk is not yet ended.

snuffy	05 Jan 2004
:laugh: my english class had to read a long walk to freedom last year... unfortunately, i was the only one who enjoyed it. hehe, a lovely choice, diana. and congrats, firemaiden! you are THE woman :)! can't wait for the next lit clue!

firemaiden	05 Jan 2004
Thank you Snuffy, LOL Thank you, Diana... interesting synchronicity at work here. I'll take that as my lesson for the day. :D

Jewel-ry	05 Jan 2004
Well done firemaiden!! and great clue Diana, very thought provoking. Cant wait for the next one. J :)

firemaiden	05 Jan 2004
New clue is now posted. MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Please to trrrrrravel by Acme HOLE:[/url]

The New Literature Clue (Jan. 3) - Solved thread was originally posted on 03 Jan 2004 in the Tarot Games & Fun board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Games & Fun, or read more archived threads.