Literature Clue [16th March] - Solved

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 16 Mar 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

jmd	16 Mar 2004
a little late... but here nonetheless :) From the Meng-Tze (Mencius): [1,1,1,1-6] Mencius went to visit King Hui of Liang. The King said to him: You are an old man, yet you have not shrunk from a journey of a thousand li in order to come hither. Doubtless you have something in your mind which will profit my kingdom? Mencius replied: Why must your Majesty use that word 'profit'? My business is with benevolence and righteousness and nothing else. [...] if righteousness be considered less important than profit, people will never be satisfied without grasping more than they possess. As benevolence is incompatible with neglect of one's parents, so righteousness never puts the interests of one's sovereign last. Let me, then, hear your Majesty speak only of benevolence and righteousness. There is no need to use the word 'profit' at all. [...] :):):)

gloria	16 Mar 2004
Ten/Pents? The old man in Rider Waite card offers spiritual as well as material wealth....

ncefafn	16 Mar 2004
I know this is useless, but . . . The Heirophant.

Lady Mary	16 Mar 2004
Good speach - so I'd go for the King of Swords.

Ilithiya	16 Mar 2004
King or Page of Wands? Illy

CreativeFire	16 Mar 2004
I am going to go with Justice ... fairness - logical thinking - should not be swayed by "profit" CreativeFire

Star Spirit	17 Mar 2004
How about the Devil?

Simone	17 Mar 2004
4 of Pentacles was my first thought... Simone

jmd	18 Mar 2004
I was somewhat hoping it would be quickly and easily solved... but can see where each of the suggestions are also reflected in the quote. So let me address (for a change) the reasons I didn't choose those. Ten of Coins: If I had considered the RWCS representation, I may very well have considered this card - for me, the ten of Coins is more a completion of some Earthly act or endeavour. The quote seems more to present the beginnings of an ongoing dialogue: Mencius has basically just arrived, and King Hui asks him what he is to offer... Pope/Hierophant: I suspect that if it had been the Hierophant, the journey would have been made by King Hui, rather than Mencius... King Swords or Wands: I suppose that I focussed more on Mencius than King Hui, so did not choose a King. If I had focussed on King Hui, I may have, given he talks of 'profit', possibly have selected the King of Coins... Page of Wands: A Page, in my personal reflections, seems a little too undignified to represent the Wisdom brought by Mencius, even though he is bringer of advice... Devil: Mencius has certainly been called the Devil before - though I cannot recall in what context (nor text)... I seem to vaguely recall it was by some Jesuit translator of the 18th century, though could well be wrong. Anyhow, I did not consider the Devil, which, in its classical depiction, binds, rather than brings benevolence and righteousness... Four Coins: Though there certainly seems to be a good solid and firm gift being offered the King, it seems to take more the form of the non-material.... Each of these, of course, also DO reflect the quote. That I did not select them reflects more the way I focused on the quote... and hopefully my responses may have given some additional hint...

Dark Eyes	18 Mar 2004
I will go with the High Priestess, she is a wise lady who I believe would not place emphasis on profit, but rather knowlege and guidance, righteousness too perhaps?? Could be a million miles away with this one, but i always believe the High priestess has something wise to offer those who are willing to listen, excluding profit in the sense that the quote defines. ......................... ;)

Kiama	18 Mar 2004
Hmmm... 6 of Cups? I'm going for the benevolence aspect, but it's not a monetary one otherwise I would have gone for the 6 of Coins. This time it's to do with 'Cups things'... Kiama

lionette	18 Mar 2004
Hi JMD, How about the Emperor ...

gloria	18 Mar 2004
The Star?

tmgrl2	18 Mar 2004
My first guess/thought was Justice...Creative Fire guessed that on the first page...since you didn't say no, I'll say I agree with Creative Fire...Justice...terri

jmd	21 Mar 2004
...no-one yet... I'll post explanations/reasons tomorrow morning (my time, it's late at night here now :))

Dexter	21 Mar 2004
Knight of Swords - journey, rightgeousness, passionate thinking, no profit involved. Dexter

lionette	21 Mar 2004
Another try... King of Cups

jmd	21 Mar 2004
My apologies to Creative Fire - I thought I had originally included why I did not choose the Justice card... but, no one has it yet: Justice - I did not choose this card, even though there is much of the content of the speech which precisely deals with Justice, for I focussed more on the people involved, and the character of he who may have answered as Mencius did; Papess/High Priestess - I am at times quite simple: the images evoked from the conversation was between these two men, and thus did not 'see' the High Priestess in the quote's evoking picture; nor, for similar reasons, the Star, though Mencius's inspired speech certainly reminds one of the Divine Flow of her vessels; 6 Cups - for me, the six speaks of harmony, and Cups anything from learning to emotions... but not a card which rises to my reflections when having the image of the conversation in mind - in fact, the general image was not, in this instance as I reflected, a Cups card (though it could of course had been under different circumstances); Emperor - had the quote principally evoked the image of Hing Hui, I would have very likely have chosen the Emperor, but as the dialogue evoked in my imagination the journey and person of Mencius, not the Emperor... nor any king, nor knight... though there certainly is much of a sense that Mencius has knight-like qualities...

WolfyJames	22 Mar 2004
The Hermit?

MattDouglas	22 Mar 2004
Since you seem to be focusing on Mencius and his exchange with the king I'll say... Temperance. Info is exchange as the water between the chalices is exchanged, presided over by an angel.

jmd	23 Mar 2004
I did indeed choose the Hermit!!! Temperance would also have made much sense had I focussed more on the interaction and the astounding ways in which Mencius is able to properly admix the correct ingredients in the fluid realm of politics... but I tended to focus more on the individual. As I reflected on the quote, what especially came to me was the description of the long journey travelled alone by the old man carrying his inner light - a light to enlighten those to whom he may bring it, and the utter benevolence and righteousness of both his character and what he seeks to engender in others... Well done WolfyJames - I now eagerly await your quote :)

Dark Eyes	23 Mar 2004
Hi jmd, I can't believe that I did not see the hermit right from the beginning !! .... Of course, it would be the perfect answer and as clear as day now that it has been guessed. Very good qote, and absolutely fitting card too. ..... Well done Wolfy James ! Looking forward to your quote next. ........................ :)

WolfyJames	23 Mar 2004
Oh no! :( Don't tell me I have to come up with a quote? :eek: Let me look in my stuff. ;)

The Literature Clue [16th March] - Solved thread was originally posted on 16 Mar 2004 in the Tarot Games & Fun board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Games & Fun, or read more archived threads.