Literary clue (Jun 10th)- Solved

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 10 Jun 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

MattDouglas	10 Jun 2004
Okay it's actually still the 9th were I am, but I'll say it's the 10th since it is for most of you, and besides, Jun 10th is my sister's birthday. Anyway, here's the quote: "Oh, would that the world could believe Me! Were all the things that lie enshrined within the heart of Baha', and which the Lord, his God, the Lord of all names, hath taught Him, to be unveiled to mankind, every man on earth would be dumbfounded." -Baha'u'llah

jmd	10 Jun 2004
Papess ?

MattDouglas	10 Jun 2004
Believe it or not, jmd, I was originally thinking of the High Priestess or Popess, but realized that another card would better fit the passage, IMO. So I must say, try again.

Suriel	10 Jun 2004
5 of wands?

MattDouglas	10 Jun 2004
No, not the 5 of wands, though I am curious wht you selected it. I can tell you if your on the right track or not, if I know your reasoning or intuitions (if explainable) behind your guess.

jmd	10 Jun 2004
Hermit ?

MattDouglas	10 Jun 2004
No, that's not it, and I hadn't thought of that one. However, though you haven't said why you guessed as you did I think you are following the same reasoning as myself.

Dark Eyes	10 Jun 2004
I am thinking of the magician.... Perhaps he has many secrets which he has not yet unveiled??? He may have the answers to the universe but he keeps them to himself in case he should need them as his tools? And if he were to uncover his secrets of mastery... all people would be flaberghasted?

jmd	10 Jun 2004
The Fool? (I suppose that each of my suggestions has rather limited reasoning... I also do not have a very positive picture of the founder or the religion which you quote - so my first thought was actually of deception and binding - of the Devil, but, as I tried to just read the quote for its own sake, I initially thought that perhaps the Popess/High Priestess may suit as someone who may speak of the hidden writings, and the Hermit as the experiencer of those secrets) For the Fool, it is just the image which is conjured up of others as they would presumably 'feel' were they to hear (and accept!) that which was taught and referred to in the quote.

MattDouglas	10 Jun 2004
I see the reasoning Dark Eyes and jmd, but I started to look at the quote as pertaining to the knowledge latent within creation itself, not just to the one possessing it. Being a religious quote, I'm hesitant to say what it definitively means, but merely explaining my reasoning for selection my card. But it's not the Magician of the Fool.

jmd	10 Jun 2004
The World? (because of 'knowledge latent within creation itself') ?

cheekyminx	10 Jun 2004
Bugger I was going to say the world. What about 2 wands? (The man in the picture appears to be holding the world in his hands. Gazing over the land - thinking)

MattDouglas	10 Jun 2004
Still nope. I wasn't refering to all the world (or universe) but that which was hidden in it.

Satori	10 Jun 2004
The Devil?

MattDouglas	10 Jun 2004
No, not the Devil. While many see the Devil as raw energy and simply amoral, I agree with the simply amoral part, but it view it as the aspects of the ourselves we specifically disown and supress.

Satori	10 Jun 2004
okay, one more try.... The Hanged Man

MattDouglas	10 Jun 2004
Nope, not that either.

Dark Eyes	11 Jun 2004
wow, .... I am now thinking... could it be judgement??? Perhaps the world holds the secrets of all mankind, and if it were all unveiled, if everybodys hidden secrets were uncovered and laid bare as the judgement card can sometimes indicate.... We would all be very shocked and dumbfounded too I am sure !! ;)

Satori	11 Jun 2004
Quote: Originally posted by MattDouglas "Oh, would that the world could believe Me! Were all the things that lie enshrined within the heart of Baha', and which the Lord, his God, the Lord of all names, hath taught Him, to be unveiled to mankind, every man on earth would be dumbfounded." -Baha'u'llah Okay, the thing that interests me about the quote is the capitol M in Me. Whomever is speaking considers him/herself on a par with deity. But it is implied that special knowledge has been given to the speaker that is withheld from mankind..... So, I thought Devil because of pride and perhaps the Hanged Man because of his special willingness to hang/withstand pain/trauma for enlightenment. But the word dumbfounded also interests me because to be dumbfounded is to be rendered speechless. The word unveiled pulls at me too....so we are drawing away a curtain of obscurity....can I use one of my lifelines and call in some help? What could the speaker know....and Lord of all names know, God of Baha who also knows what lies in Baha's heart and then unveil such knowledge, the knowledge of Baha, that would render one speechless?

Satori	11 Jun 2004
okay, so I think the speaker is a woman now. I think this because the speaker is saying they wish that mankind would listen, so there is a sense of hopelessness here or of feeling like it would be useless to try and give the warning.... Am I close or just showing you how absurd this line of thinking is???

Satori	11 Jun 2004
Speaker saying could listen not would...so mankind is deaf to speaker or already deaf in general? Or the speaker cannot speak...... So the speaker is a magical tool that cannot speak but was present during instuctional times....perhaps a crown, but I think not....having to do with the heart....cup? Ace of cups? .

jmd	11 Jun 2004
Cards suggested so far: Bateleur/Magician Popess/High Priestess Hermit Hanged Man Devil Judgement World Fool 2 Bastons/Wands 5 Bastons/Wands Ace Cups Judgement would have been my next suggestion too... So how about what is IN the world, even though it remains unrecognised: → [font=papyrus] Justice [/font] ← (rather and instead of 'Law') ?

MattDouglas	11 Jun 2004
Claudia, You gave yourself a big clue in the 2nd last paragraph of the first of your three posts in a row. While it would be rather complicated to go into the gender of the voice being used to speak, I supposed it is fair to say that the card I'm looking for is rather feminine (though as I said earlier, I'm not looking for a person). But no it's not the Ace of Cups. jmd, No, I wasn't thinking of Justice. Given the current state of the world though, we might very well be dumbfounded if Justice was in, but I like to think we'd be celebrating. But that's just me.

Satori	11 Jun 2004
This is quite the merry chase.... I'm looking at my Universal Rider Waite and the only thing I can come up with is the .... 7 of Cups??? The veiled figure in the cup....center of card....

Dakota	11 Jun 2004
Quote: Originally posted by MattDouglas "Oh, would that the world could believe Me! Were all the things that lie enshrined within the heart of Baha', and which the Lord, his God, the Lord of all names, hath taught Him, to be unveiled to mankind, every man on earth would be dumbfounded." -Baha'u'llah 2 of Swords? For someone who willfully will NOT see or understand? This quote seems to me to have more to do with not seeing or understanding than not hearing or speaking............

Luminessence	11 Jun 2004
I see the person speaking as wanting to reveal all these things to the world but being unable to, and having to take the long and indirect way around instead - so, 7 of Swords?

Satori	11 Jun 2004
MattDouglas you get back here and answer soon....I'm going out for several hours and I need to know...... !!!!!!!!!!!stamping foot!!!!!!!!.......

MattDouglas	11 Jun 2004
Still not it. Claudia, wow, that was spoken like a true Yankee! Being originally from MA myself (born it Salem), it's nice to get a taste of home. But it's not the 7 of cups. Not the 2 or 7 of swords either. I'm looking for a card that more represents the secrets themselves and their concealment and slow revealation, rather than the person who they are revealed to (7 of cups), how the keeper reveals them (7 of swords), or others inability to see them (2 of swords). But I like the way y'all are eagerly stretching for it!

Satori	11 Jun 2004
~~~~arms crossed, tapping foot~~~~ confounded.....

Luminessence	11 Jun 2004
Is it the Star?

Satori	11 Jun 2004
Quote: Originally posted by MattDouglas I'm looking for a card that more represents the secrets themselves and their concealment and slow revealation, rather This is so frustrating I feel like going out and howling....... ..............at the MOON!

MattDouglas	11 Jun 2004
Bingo, Claudia gets it. The Moon it is! At night time and in the moonlight secrets are revealed to us slowly and mysteriously, on both literal and mataphoric levels. I think it would be dumbfounding if such concealed secrets were revealed faster, not too mention all at once. Also, the moon is very close to us but reflects the light of the sun. If the sun were that much closer, we would all be blinded. Actually, we may very well all be burnt to a crisp, but that sure would silence us.

Dakota	11 Jun 2004
YAAAAAAAAAA, Claudia!!! You really DESERVED that win!! You rock, girl! :D

Satori	11 Jun 2004
Quote: Originally posted by MattDouglas Bingo, Claudia gets it. The Moon it is! Thanks MattDouglas! You had us going! Thanks Dakota, I had a lot of fun with it. Now what happens? Am I supposed to do one? Never played this game before....

MattDouglas	11 Jun 2004
That's right. It your turn to drive us nuts bymaking us guess a card for a quote of your selection.

Satori	11 Jun 2004
Hope I'm not being thick, but are there are any rules or guidelines to follow? My understanding, correct me please compadres, is that you choose a quote from literature, that perhaps isn't even tarot related, but that illustrates a tarot card? You then start a thread and date it with it the start date and post your clue/quote. You then provide some hints as people make their ideas known? Until someone wins.

Dakota	11 Jun 2004
Yep, that's about it......... there is a rules thread at the top of the board too.......... :D

The Literary clue (Jun 10th)- Solved thread was originally posted on 10 Jun 2004 in the Tarot Games & Fun board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Games & Fun, or read more archived threads.