Court cards as people? questions..help

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 21 Oct 2001, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Freddie	21 Oct 2001
As I consider reading part-time on the weekends I find that I still have a few problems reading the cards that I've struggled with over the years. 1) how do I tell if a card is referring to a person. For example: Page of Wands - a bearer of tidings or a young woman or man ? or The Empress/Emperor (I think you know what I mean...). How about hair/skin tones? 2) Is it possible to get great readings from just the major arcana? I'm thinking of only using them for reading for other people. The Swiss IJJ majors really speak to me on a deep level for fortune telling. 3) Is it important to put the pack back in order after each reading? I don't mind doing it so it's not a matter of the labor of it. Too many rules make the reading boring and cumbersome I think. Am I wrong? Thanks, Freddie

EveAnna	21 Oct 2001
Hi Freddie, I wondered if anyone off here used the 1JJ Swiss deck, this was my first deck bought just over 20 years ago in the original French. I too love the Majors in this one but also am finding the Minors easier to work with since using it alongside the Rider Waite - I also like the smallness of the deck because I have small hands - well that was slightly off topic lol :) I don't usually put my decks back into order after a reading, just make sure they are shuffled well.

tarotbear	21 Oct 2001
AH! The dreaded Court Cards come back into conversation! The difficulties is that the Court cards can work on 3 different levels, sometimes simultaneously! They can be the querent, someone the querent comes in contact with, or a comment on the situation. No easy answers here! After each reading I shuffle the deck well, but I dont order it unless I am putting it away for ' a long time'. Many people use just the Majors for a reading; it's one of those personal preference things.

nexyjo	21 Oct 2001
i was always skeptical about court cards identifying people, down to their hair color and physical attributes. in fact, for a while, i stove to see them as stages in the developement of the energy of their suit, and specifically not people. but after reading on how each person here uses the court cards in the multitude of conversations that covered this topic, i came to a compromise that seems to work for me. what it boils down to, was that i finally let the cards tell me what they meant, instead of trying to see a person, or a stage of developement, or some kind of message - just like i do with every other card. when i look at any other card, i let it "speak" to me. i look at the picture, and "see" what it means. what i realized, was that i was not doing this with the court cards. i was trying to impose some kind of meaning, as opposed to letting them tell me what they meant. sometimes, i'll look at a court card and i see myself. sometimes i see someone else - and even though the card may be a queen, the person might be male. sometimes i'll look at a page, and i'll see youthful innocence, in my actions, or someone elses, again, in the area of the energy of that suit. sometimes i'll look at a king, and see arrogence, or strength. each time it's different. sometimes, like with any other card, i'll draw a blank. that's when i'll fall back on using the card as a stage in development, within the energy of that suit. as an example, the page of cups would mean emotional beginnings, or immature emotional reactions. hope that helped... luv and light, nexy

tiger lily	22 Oct 2001
I never read Court Cards as events - I have another 72 cards left for that. I determined to always interpret them as people - so my unconscious selects *courts* when it wants me to get a message about *people*. Consider this: if Courts can be events OR persons, there´s no reason why the Majors and Minor Arcana can´t be events or people, too. If a card can mean *anything*, everything gets muddled and you don´t get a clear msg anymore. I interpret the Courts as personality types (not in the MB sense), not as physical appearances. A black woman can have a King of Wands personality - if you go by the "traditional" assignments to this card, she´d be white and have red hair (Fire). So, if you´d always associate the Wands with redheads, you´d never guess that the person in question could be black...

Major Tom	22 Oct 2001
Quote: Freddie (22 Oct, 2001 00:04): 2) Is it possible to get great readings from just the major arcana? I'm thinking of only using them for reading for other people. The Swiss IJJ majors really speak to me on a deep level for fortune telling. Freddie I've been using only the major arcana for readings for both myself and other people for quite a number of years }> Are they great readings? I like to think so.

nexyjo	22 Oct 2001
Quote: tigerlilly says: Consider this: if Courts can be events OR persons, there´s no reason why the Majors and Minor Arcana can´t be events or people, too. If a card can mean *anything*, everything gets muddled and you don´t get a clear msg anymore. hmmmmm, to me, majors and minors can be events or people, or a bunch of other things as well. i don't find that "everything gets muddled" at all. i don't like to put restrictions on any of the cards - i let them tell me what they mean. luv and light, nexy

MeeWah	22 Oct 2001
It may be a matter of personal preference to designate Court cards as merely "people" cards, but that is limiting for me. Depending on how such a card hits me, it represents an aspect of self/querent, another person, a situation or even a concept. Ditto for Majors & minors. Any card with at least one person on it could lend themselves to referring to an individual or the querent. While minors generally provide the details of a story, many have one person or more on them so they could refer to one or more possibly involved in a situation or pertinent to the reading. How ever it is chosen to approach this, it is best to remain consistant so as to formulate a base from which to interpret.

Freddie	22 Oct 2001
Hi, Thanks to all of you for the great advice. I'll no longer fool with putting the deck back in order after every reading. I'll wing it on the major/monor arcana issue and not hesitate to use the whole deck if makes reading for a person clearer. For practice I use the whole deck anyway. I try to stick with the traditional/Kabbalah meanings of the cards. Right now I'm studying "The Book Of Thoth" (even though the author kind of scares me, no offence to anyone intended, I'm trying to get over it.) The Swiss 1JJ (glad to see I'm not the only one ), Thoth deck, and Universal Rider Pack are the ones I work with right now. I like the gypsy tradtion alot (yeah I love those old fashioned decks LOL) and as everyone here has pointed out to me there is no simple answer to the court card question. I'll keep working on it. Thanks, Freddie

Lee	24 Nov 2001
There's a third alternative besides reading with just Majors and reading with all 78 cards. You could try reading with the Majors, the Courts, and the Aces. This makes for a good-sized deck, and enables one to read with older decks without having to deal with the fact that the pip cards are unillustrated. Also, if you read that way, then the courts will come up much more often, which could result in your becoming more accustomed to them. In her book "Jung and Tarot," Sallie Nichols describes this as her reading method. -- Lee

Freddie	25 Nov 2001
Hi Lee, I have ordered that book and there are a few new posts about here. If you get a chance, please let us know what you think of it. It sounds like a book I'm really going to like. Thanks for the advice, Freddie

DeLani	12 Dec 2001
Hi again all, First off, I wouldn't personally recommend only using the Majors. This is because the Major Arcana represent very potent spiritual forces at work. Not everything (in fact I can't think of anything) is a STRICTLY spiritual issue. The minors show us the day to day life that is integrated into our spiritual development. Anyway, that's just my opinion. On the subject of court cards, I agree that they can sometimes be people (including the querent) and sometimes can show events, like messages or opportunities. I just have to let my intuition guide me. And I NEVER use physical appearance to determine court cards (or vice versa)! Outward appearance has very little to do with our inner self, personality, or stage of development. The Llewellyn Tarot Calendar for 2002 has a really great article on court cards. You should check it out! Lots of luck and Blessed Be, DeLani

The Court cards as people? questions..help thread was originally posted on 21 Oct 2001 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.