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Thoth - Difference between Princesses and Pages

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 07 Oct 2001, and now archived in the Forum Library.



9ofcups  07 Oct 2001 
Could someone please explain to me the differences between Crowley's Prince/ss and the standard Page? 


Thirteen  07 Oct 2001 
No real difference except that things are a little more equitable.

Page/Knight imply page at the bottom, then up to Knight then up to Queen with King at the top.

However, with Princess/Prince, you have male/female equals. Then you get Knight/Queen. Again male/female equals, more or less. One is a younger set, one a more mature set. The symbolism, to Crowley, is also important. The primary male (Knight) must be on horseback while the primary female (Queen) must be seated. She symbolizes the castle, the essence of the thing, it's heart, while he symbolizes that which moves about it, protecting, getting out its message, spreading it.

Also, there are elements involved. I'm not sure how Crowley works them out, but Knight is always the pure essence of the suit. So Knight of wand is "Fire/fire," and Kinght of swords is "Air/Air"--while Prince of wands, for example, is "Earth/fire." Other decks have a clear indication of which is what element, but Crowley has his own strange logic. 


Jane  08 Oct 2001 
Hi,

Reguarding Crowley's court cards and the elements. Each one is primarily it's suit element, then as follows:

Knights-Fire
Queens -Water
Princes-Air
Princess-Earth

Some examples, Knight of Cups water of fire,
Queen on Disks, earth of water, Prince of Swords air of air, Princess of Wands fire of earth.

Does that help any?

Jane 


Thirteen  08 Oct 2001 
Quote:
Jane (09 Oct, 2001 04:51):
Hi,

Reguarding Crowley's court cards and the elements. Each one is primarily it's suit element, then as follows:

Knights-Fire
Queens -Water
Princes-Air
Princess-Earth


Strange you should mention that, as it's what I thought, too. But then the book I have on the Thoth deck completely messed me up. It didn't say that the Knight of swords was "Fire/Air" which would be what I'd figure. It said the Knight of swords was "Air/Air"--and when I checked out the princess, she wasn't, as I recall, "Earth/air" but something like "fire/air"--Completely confused me.

I don't have the book in front of me right now so I can't tell you more, but what you say regarding the elements of the court cards is what I'd always known as well--until I read up on them in this book which, presumably, has Crowley's own notes on tarot.

I'm certainly confused. 


Jane  09 Oct 2001 
Hi Thirteen,

Well those court card element associations come directly from Crowley's own "Book of Thoth". As to where the other associations came from, I have not a clue.

Jane 


Thirteen  09 Oct 2001 
Quote:
Jane (10 Oct, 2001 00:50):
Hi Thirteen,

Well those court card element associations come directly from Crowley's own "Book of Thoth". As to where the other associations came from, I have not a clue.


Well, alrighty then! I'll hold the book I've got suspect! 


The Thoth - Difference between Princesses and Pages thread was originally posted on 07 Oct 2001 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.

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