7 of Cups - skull and laurel wreath

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 14 Mar 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Soraya	14 Mar 2002
Hi everyone, In my daily draw the 7 of cups came up today. I just wanted to say that that card gives me the creeps. I cannot decide if it is a positive or a negative card but on the whole I think it's negative. Has anyone noticed the scull on the cup which contains the laurel wreath? What do you think it means? Soraya

Emily	14 Mar 2002
Hi Soraya, You know I've never noticed the skull on the laurel cup before but now I'm looking at the card from the original Rider Waite it seems to glare out - is it the Universal Waite you have? The skull seems to be even more obvious in that one. I'll check the Hanson Roberts after to see if there is a skull on that 7 Cups too :)

arizonagirl	14 Mar 2002
The 7 of Cups in the Robin Wood tarot also has a cup containing a laurel wreath with a death's head on the cup. In her book she explains that while she was drawing it, she didn't understand its meaning at all. One day it dawned on her that it meant "victory over death". Works for me.

moondust	14 Mar 2002
LOL that is a strange card isn't it. It is suppossed to represent all those wierd things that go on itside our heads, the monsters we create with our minds as well as visions of more positive things. In some ways I think it is a confusing card to us because it reflects confusion inside of our minds, we can't think or see straight because of the world we've created inside our minds. My trouble is even when I draw that card and KNOW I'm not seeing things clearly, I still have a hard time wading through all my own overactive imagination. Sometimes if you have a friend or someone you trust to help you sort out your thoughts it can be helpful.

destinyawaitsme	14 Mar 2002
hehe..arizona beat me to it but what I was going to say is. My names is Lauren and I knew that laurel leaves stood for victory because if you ever look the name up in a baby name book, that's what it will tell you. So I could see how victory over death could fit in...because isn't that a really good example of wishful thinking. I mean, that will never happen. So that is a good thought.

blumoon	15 Mar 2002
in the tarot revealed it says the wreath symbolises personal power :)

Fern	15 Mar 2002
I think of the skull in the 7 of cups as a memento mori (a reminder that we are mortal, and that our time here is brief). The Victorians often wore such memento mori as jewelry (and it's highly collectible $$$ right now). The laurel wreath does represent Victory, but I think of it as Death's victory. Ultimately, we must all go through that door, so our life decisions should be made accordingly.

Thirteen	15 Mar 2002
I agree that the wreath-crowned-skull might mean "Death's Victory"--but as been pointed out, this card has 7 cups, each with a different emblem. As has also been pointed out, sometimes we're in a state where our imagination runs wild. This is cups, so it's an emotional card, not a mental card (example: 9 of swords--where you take what's real and make it nightmarish, where you think, logically, way too much). Cups involve "Illusion," images, feelings, dreams, visions (sometimes prophetic), not rational thoughts. Think of the card as the "daydream" or "free association" card. You might have a sudden vision of dying--"what would happen," you might wonder, "if I got sick and died?", a sudden vision (as in one of the cups) of having tons of money ("what would I do if I had a million dollars?"), a sudden vision of danger (there's a snake in one, right?), etc. Random thoughts, random visions, none based on any present reality. The problem, of course, is when people decide to act on these emotional visions of the future which are not based on any concrete reality. This card is kind of a slap across the face. It says, "Wake up!" and "Get real!" Stop daydreaming and pay attention. It's not that daydreaming is bad, its just that your dreams are all over the place. And they're making it hard for you to see what's true and what's just overwrought imagination. Worse, they're keeping you from taking concrete, pragmatic action and actually getting yourself to your goal. Does that help?

january	15 Mar 2002
This may sound silly, but a couple of times I've drawn the 7 of Cups as my daily card and I took it as a warning to not, umm.... over-indulge on libations if I have plans to go out that night. I guess it makes sense because there are those times, when our head is clouded, murky and loopy, we think we can actually sing like Madonna. ~ january

Malachite	15 Mar 2002
THe Hanson-ROberts deck is less sinister..no skull! It interprets the card as...Don't build castles on top of dreams on top of dreams... I think the wizardy bloke in the pic is the hand of fate, so there is a warning in the card, but in a much more cheery way... mind you, that pretty much describes the H-R deck..!

Jewel	15 Mar 2002
If you want to see and interesting and bizarre 7 of cups check out the 7 of cups in the Cosmic Tribe (I love that deck!).

arizonagirl	15 Mar 2002
Have any of you ever looked through a crystal ball? You know the world is turned upside down with the sky on the bottom, etc. In the Susan Hudes deck, the background of the 7 of Cups looks like that. Sky below, ground above.

Pollux	16 Mar 2002
The Laurel & Skull: Laurel is the plant of triumph, and victory, SURE IT IS! But you must not forget that mythically it also is the highest award for poets (in particular - remeber Dante's invocations in the "Divina Commedia"), the official acknowledgement of their inspiration and art. It was the conferring of the "Laurel wrath" that likened the "craft", the skill and the "worth" of the poet to that of divinity. Apollo, the God of the Sun Chariot, is the patron of arts together with the Muses, and he is described many times as the most skilled poet (remember Marcia's Myth?). The Laurel is his sacred plant, and represents FAME, as I also said before, acknowledgement and celebration of divine skill in a human being. Therefore, that image DEFINITELY means Victory over Death, as Fame makes the human being immortal, akin to a god (and therefore twice like them: for the art and for the eternal life). Dante himself insist so much on this very point, "begging" the deities to give him skill and proficiency to gaiun eternal life through poetic/artistic expression and by receiving the LAurel, sacred plant of Apollo, god of Arts. I was soooooooooo repetitive! But I hope I made my point, and explicated it clearly! :)

Luwana	16 Mar 2002
in my deck (celtic dragon) it has one of the cups containing a skull,. it is said to mean dangerous adventure :S or something like that.

Fern	18 Mar 2002
Pollux - very clear explanation and very interesting!

lili	11 Apr 2002
To me the seven of cups mean confusion about making a decision in wich we have different choices our heart urge us to go in one direction and our head to go in another, it can also mean day-dreaming or fantasizing, when we have ideas and unconsious desires but lacks the ability to come to a decision on a particular matter.

Rhiannon	12 Apr 2002
I just had to chime in to say: Pollux, that was awesome! Your explanation was great. Can you imagine what a powerful totem/talisman the skull cup w/ a laurel (FAME) would be for someone trying to become an actress, singer, writer, etc.? wow! I usually see the darker side of the laurel, as in "don't rest on your laurels, get back to work!" And I usually see any kind of skull as associate with change rather than actual death, but your explanation of the symbol on this particular card was great! Next time I get this in a reading I will definitely think of what you said. Rhiannon :)

ajoite	12 Apr 2002
I use the tarot of the ages, it has a marsh that seems to be pulling the person in with orchids in the background as a lure, the meaning it has for this deck is lots of plans ideas goals all at once but they are just dreams. Warns don’t be too scattered, put energy into making it work. Don’t be unrealistic or foolish.

Pollux	12 Apr 2002
*Pollux tries so hard to calm the crowd that has gone insane after his confused rambling* Thanks! Thank you very much! :) *Pollux grabs the flowers and the gifts and thw wraths that the entire forum is throwing. He's overwhelmed! Will there be Laurel wraths among those that he's being celebrated with? ;)*

InvisibleSoul	24 Apr 2004
Has anyone else noticed what appears to be a skull on the 6th of the 7 Cups? What do you think it is? Why is it with the cup with the wreath in it? Life and death hand in hand? A balance?

WalesWoman	25 Apr 2004
I think it's laurels after death, like creating something that lasts after you die, something that gives you everlasing fame, having your name on a building, a classic novel, a work of art, something you leave behind so no one will forget that you lived. Doesn't matter if it was something famous or infamous as long as you get the recognition you want, be it Mother Theresa or Ted Bundy, Napoleon or Ghandi, something that makes you unforgetable.

doni_girl69	25 Apr 2004
Hello everyone, though I am new here, I have been reading the messages for a whille now. Back in 2000 I too noticed what looked like a skull on one of the cups on the 7 of cups. At the time and since then I thought I was the only one who noticed it. I never knew why I didn't see it before. That was about a month before I got into a wreck that almost ended my life. It is nice to know that someone else sees the skull as well, and I was a little puzzled as to why the cup had a laural leaf on it as well. To this day, I see what happend as death was one of my fears, it had nothing to do with the card itself, but when the something happenes I start to notcie little things about the cards that I didn't notcie before, even if I have been staring at the same deck for years...day in, day out. Hope this helps you. Kim

northsea	26 Apr 2004
Relating the :T7C to the chakras, the laurel/skull could be the crown chakra. ...It also could signify the danger associated with fame and politics.

InvisibleSoul	26 Apr 2004
VERY nice idea, WalesWoman! That would make perfect sense as one of our wishes or goals or fantasies! Never thought of that! :)

Blackcat	02 Oct 2004
When I first saw the skull, the tale of Cu Chulainn came to my head: it´s from celtic mythology. In that tale, a boy overhears a druid telling “if a boy takes his weapons today, he will be famous (a brave warrior, the strongest, with fame and honours), but his life will be short”. And he ask for the weapons, fulfilling the prophecy.

Ace	02 Oct 2004
I went back to my creaky old RWS and looked: there IS A skull on the cup with the laurel in it! and I never EVER noticed it in all the years I used that deck! That is soooo cool, Soraya! But before I looked I was readin all your comments, and Quote: Originally posted by WalesWoman I think it's laurels after death, like creating something that lasts after you die, something that gives you everlasing fame, having your name on a building, a classic novel, a work of art, something you leave behind so no one will forget that you lived. Doesn't matter if it was something famous or infamous as long as you get the recognition you want, be it Mother Theresa or Ted Bundy, Napoleon or Ghandi, something that makes you unforgetable. That was what I was thinking too: sort of what do you want you your tombstone--and I don't mean pizza! I shifted after several years of using it to a Robin Wood, and yes, it does have a skull in the edging of the Laurel cup. What price victory? I would suggest, but I don't remember if it ever came up in a reading. I learn so much here, amazing!!! BlackCat: that is a great story, I can see it. A tough choice, glory and death or a long, dull life. Is it in the Aeneid that someone goes to heaven and see all the great heros (Achilles, Odysseus, etc) looking for quiet fates the next time around?

Shade	04 Oct 2004
In't laurel poisonous...or just highly narcotic?

RedMaple	06 Oct 2004
I always see this card as imagination gone wild. Sometimes this is appropriate, but often, to me, it means FOCUS ! :) All those cups, filled with illusions, things that might, or could be, or might never be, an emotional roller coaster. I like the idea of not imbibing when you draw this card - yes, this could be a stay sober card. Thanks for that.

sarahbellum	06 Oct 2004
One thing I am noticing a lot lately is the intersting crossover between Swords and Cups. The three of Swords portrays something you might expect to be a Cups card; the seven of Cups shows something that you might expect in Swords, i.e. daydreams and wishful thinking. Your comments prompted me to think about this card more, and why it is a Cups card. Maybe the key is that all of those daydreams represent not so much plans (mental) as deep emotions and instincts--the desire for love, the fear of death, the craving for riches, etc. All of the cups on the card portray deeply atavistic impulses of one kind or another. I may be mistaken but besides being a symbol of victory, I seem to remember that bay leaves (laurel) were also used in embalming--they were placed among the winding sheets in ancient funerals. That makes them VERY ambiguous, doesn't it? They can represent both victory over death and death itself. But then ambiguous symbols are what make the Tarot so rich and meaningful.

ihcoyc	06 Oct 2004
FWIW, I don't believe that laurel leaves are poisonous per se. They are the same as bay leaves such as you put in soup. I remember reading that the Delphic oracle chewed them before prophesying. This may mean they have mild hallucinogenic properties. They were, of course, sacred to Apollo. Yes, sarahbellum, all of the sevens display atavistic impulses and instincts of one sort or another. Seven clubs, a headlong charge straight at 'em. Seven coins, the slumbering earth. Seven swords, the use of the mind for selfish guile. Seven cups, seven different fickle and imprudent desires of the heart.

The 7 of Cups - skull and laurel wreath thread was originally posted on 14 Mar 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.