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How to place the cards ?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 18 Mar 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.



Rocksolid  18 Mar 2002 
I am learning to do readings and the book that came with my cards ( Morgan- Greer) told me that if you are doing a reading and the cards are upsidedown, facing the person you are reading for, you should turn them right side up. I know that cards upside down are not usually positive readings. Should I turn the cards right side up ? I would think that you should leave them since life is not always positive and some people are not always nice. I'm sure a reading for Hitler would not turn out so nice. What do you guys think ? 


Temperance413  18 Mar 2002 
Hi Rocksolid!
There are a lot of opinions about using reversals or just using upright positions. The original meaning of the cards are so vast that they encompass all the negative and positive qualities for each card, so in essence, an upright card would hold both qualities, you need to use your intuition to figure out which one it is disclosed in the reading. If you use reversals, sometimes the meaning of the card is blocked, or stagnant energy is present, or the meaning of the card will be completely different from the upright position. At any rate, you need to read a few books on each position, and judge for yourself. Whichever works the best for you is the one you use. If your intuition and mind work to produce a grand reading for yourself, or someone else, then you are doing the right thing. 


Thirteen  18 Mar 2002 
Quote:
Originally posted by Rocksolid
I am learning to do readings and the book that came with my cards ( Morgan- Greer) told me that if you are doing a reading and the cards are upsidedown, facing the person you are reading for, you should turn them right side up. I know that cards upside down are not usually positive readings. Should I turn the cards right side up ?


As you're still learning, turn all the cards one way, and shuffle them so you get no up-side-down. Work with them all right-side-up till you feel comfortable and confident with readings. THEN, visit bec's wonderful website. She has a whole area discussing reversals. I, personally, don't feel a new reader should have to learn right-side-up AND up-side-down all at once. But that's me :) 


Lion-O  18 Mar 2002 
Basicly a reversed card can have different meanings, but can also be used differently. I've seen people using reversed cards as a "less powerfull" version of the card being upright, others simply ignore it and use them as being upright and people who indeed use them as the opposite as the one being up right.

So basicly I should not worry too much if I were you; simply use the way which works best for you. Perhaps its easier on you to start using the cards as being equal and at a later stage treat reversed cards as "less powerfull" ones.

Just my 2 cents though ;) Good luck! 


mehrdad  21 Mar 2002 
Hi everyone. I really enjoy this forum since it has opened up a new point of view in my perception that I never had before.
I have a set of Crowley Tarot cards, which I admire greatly and during the last six months I have been trying to learn about them as much as I could. Although I know a lot about the individual meanings of the cards, however, after spending many $$ to purchase books regarding Tarot, I am yet to figure out a proper way to spread these cards for an accurate reading. Crowley in the book of Thoth has a very long procedure to spread the cards, which in my opinion is not practical in a lot of situations, so until I can find more information about the Kabala I have decided not to use this spread.

With the cards there is a fifteen-card spread instruction (very short and insufficient), which also uses the fact that cards from different clubs might enforce or oppose the card adjutants to it. I also know about the Celtic cross spread in which no card is influenced by any other card. Does anybody know about a good book that focuses on the proper way to spread the cards (not made up spreads please)? I appreciate any response. Thank you 


Diana  21 Mar 2002 
edited 


arizonagirl  21 Mar 2002 
Mehrdad,
Choosing which spread to use can be confusing when you are first getting started with tarot cards. There are so many different spreads, and as Diana pointed out, they are all 'made-up' by someone.

Look at all the spreads on the link Diana provided. Find 3 or 4 that appeal to you. Try them out. I think that you will be surprised how accurate they will be. 


Liliana  21 Mar 2002 
try using the simple, basic, 3 card spread which isnt as simple or basic as it may appear. Just put 3 cards in a row, these 3 cards can mean a number of things :) Usually they are past/present/future but thecan be body/mind/spirit or any 3 things you wish. This way you have one spread useful for just abou tany question, just change position meanings :) 


mehrdad  21 Mar 2002 
Diana

I do not agree with your point that a spread can just be made up in an instance. To create a particular spread there has to be a convincing bases for its form. For example, the architect of a Celtic cross or the High priestess has a religious epitome to explain it. Or Kabala set up has a deep philosophical, astrological and historical background to rely on. As Crowley rightfully points out, the Tarot cards are seventy eight individuals who each hold only the answer for a part of the puzzle and like many other puzzles they need to be arranged in a proper way to reveal the whole picture.

A religion and the morals that is based on also was created by someone, does this knowledge is enough to permit us to create our own religion in an instance? If you are preparing a particular food, shouldn’t you need a proper recipe to get the result that you want to get?

In order to fulfill the full potential of a Tarot decks a proper channel is needed to facilitate the communion between the conscious and unconscious truth. In order to dream you need to sleep so the act of sleeping might be considered a proper spread to talk to inner self and no made up spread can do this job. Tarot cards are symbolic languages that might have this ability to connect you to what is hidden inside you but they have to be arranged rightfully otherwise you would get nothing but incoherent mumbling.
Thanks for the site address; I would look at it after writing this response. 


piccolo  21 Mar 2002 
Hi there,

I can see you are a person who works best when given instructions on how to use a tool as carefully and specifically as possible, in order to feel comfortable about using it. You seem to be very interested in the history of tarot, and spiritual belief surrounding the use of it. I can see you like what I call the 'university approach' to Tarot. This, for you, must be a very helpful way of learning.

BUT...one of the biggest attributes of tarot, is it's ability to crossover in a religious/spiritual sense. Gnostics believe in the individual's search for knowledge. Gnostic Christian's believe in the individual's search for knowledge, with a little bit of Jesus sprinkled on top. I follow a bit of gnostic christianity, with a little bit of tarot sprinkled on top. I may add a maraschino cherry next week, if I feel like it. That's what individual spiritual search is all about I say; finding out your very own spot in the universe, and what out there helps you to be a better person.

Allistair Crowley is not a direct influence on me at this time in my tarot education. Neither is studying the kabala. Maybe I'll look into it someday, maybe I won't. I'm not worried that my study of tarot will be harmed by ignoring those two influences for now.

As for fulfilling the full potential of a tarot deck, that has a lot to do with what many folks on this site call 'god, or goddess, or guides, angels, powers that be, intuition, psychic abilities'...one doesn't need a diploma to be successful at this-a pure heart would help tho.

It might help you a little, if you tried to be a little more open minded about how others view tarot. You would be more likely to get support and help if and when you need it-and, heck, you might have fun! You sound so serious :-(

Anyway, it's all good, and good luck with you!

Piccolo 


Diana  21 Mar 2002 
edited 


mehrdad  21 Mar 2002 
But you could not be able to make the food without heating it even if you add your own personal touches to it.
My point is not so much about food but the fact that in order to accomplish something one should follow the proper conduit and according to the order of things. For example no matter how much personal touches you use, you cannot procreate by your own or without a proper prescription of a certain system. Every aspect of our life is structured in one fashion or another and in order to survive as a social being, we all should align ourselves according to some set of laws.

Tonight just go out and look at sky, you see stars furnishing the twilight background with certain regularity and according to a mathematical ordain. Look at moon and you see how it evolves from full to a crescent and back again all in due timing and proper order, so much so that many civilizations have set their watches and their calendar to the trust of its regularity. My point is that we are living in a world that has been designed by a mathematician and a philosopher with full knowledge of mysticism, magic and puzzle making.

I am not following any Golden dawn or Crowley or anybody else for that matter blindfolded and I do not even follow any religion in any conventional way. However, I do believe that in order to understand a particular subject one needs to refer to the experts. As Omar Khyiam once said, as one knows more one concludes that one’s knowledge is inadequate. According to many, Crowley is an expert in mysticism and Tarot so I get advised from him and many others like him, for example you or others in this side.

What you called a self-development might eventually result to the realization of a self-centered ego nourishing one’s ignorance if it does not follow a carefully guided path. 


mehrdad  21 Mar 2002 
Piccolo

I appreciate your comment but it seems to me that either I am too rigid or you are too wobbly about this particular point of view. I am familiar with Gnostic in Christianity and sophism in Islam in which both deal with mysticism side of religion. In physic we have two forces of weak and strong and many have been trying to find a unifying force relating these two forces and in a sense all physical world, but without any success. One might imagine that your sprinkling method fashioned to your own liking might be your attempt to relate to different aspect of your own personality to a unifying agent within you.

However, wobbling and doing what one might feel like has an itinerary that goes nowhere but abyss.

I too wish you good luck and may we both have fun in our own way. 


mehrdad  21 Mar 2002 
Hi Liliana

Thank you for the three cards set up but where this set up has come from and what is the underlying philosophy, or historical fact behind it? Could you explain if you like to. Thank you. 


mehrdad  21 Mar 2002 
Arizonagirl

I looked at the site provided by Diana but I could not find the threat to get me to the spread set-ups section. Under which hyperlink is this topic have located? I have a very slow modem and it would take me many hours to find the section by clicking all those links. If you know please make me aware so I don’t have to waste time looking for it. Thank you again. 


arizonagirl  22 Mar 2002 
Mehrdad,
This link will take you directly to the spreads page:
http://www.anjastarot.dk/spreads/spreads-main.htm

I find that I must disagree with your insistance that only some spreads should be used.

Since, unlike the creation of the universe, a person had to design the first spread, why should that person's philosophy be the only path to follow? That opinion, if applied to other facets of life, would have us all practicing the same religion, for instance.

I think that you will be limiting the satisfaction of using tarot by insisting on a "real spread - not a made up one". Any spread can be a successful conduit to interpret events in one's life if the reader knows beforehand what spread will be used and takes a few minutes to prepare mentally and spiritually before the reading. 


Umbrae  22 Mar 2002 
Earliest recording of a 3 unit/PPF spread is from Chapter 10 of "Germania" by Tacitus, written in 98 C.E..
The Units were Runes (Elder Futhark) as opposed to Tarot. However many historians do feel that the Tarot came were derived from the runes. There is a correspondence between the Major Arcana and the Elder Futhark (and it did take awhile to figure out that paper stuff…lol). 


bec  22 Mar 2002 
hi all,
I actually got to read this thread cause I saw it from my counter :)

Ok to help you all out:


Reversals direct :

http://www.anjastarot.dk/reversals/GuideToReversals-main.htm

Spreads Main:

http://www.anjastarot.dk/spreads/spreads-main.htm

9 ways of a 3 carder:

http://www.anjastarot.dk/spreads/others/DifferentKindsOF3CardSpreads.htm

that is what I see you search for here, let me know if you need anything else

oh and as I understand it all started with how to begin learn and read tarot, here is some pages for that as well:

http://www.anjastarot.dk/articles/WhatIsTarot.htm

http://www.anjastarot.dk/learn/HowandWhereToLearnTarot.htm

I am not saying that this is the only right way of doing it, on the contrary as you will notice if you read the pages. If not anything else there are some great links for other tutorical tarot sites.

love bec

ps: thank you guys for spreading the word of me webby :D 


Jewel  22 Mar 2002 
Mehrdad,

There are several books on spreads, one that very good is "Classic Tarot Spreads" by Sandor Konraad (spread section only... the first section of the book is on the cards and there are much better books for that). If you would like some information on books relating the Qabalah, one that I would recommend off the top of my head is "Qabalistic Tarot" by Robert Wang (nice and academic). 


Lion-O  24 Mar 2002 
Quote:
Originally posted by mehrdad
Every aspect of our life is structured in one fashion or another and in order to survive as a social being, we all should align ourselves according to some set of laws.

I am not following any Golden dawn or Crowley or anybody else for that matter blindfolded and I do not even follow any religion in any conventional way. However, I do believe that in order to understand a particular subject one needs to refer to the experts.

What you called a self-development might eventually result to the realization of a self-centered ego nourishing one’s ignorance if it does not follow a carefully guided path.

First of all: I snipped out some comments to form a basis for my reply. These comments stand on their own IMO although I did try care not to take them out of context.


I disagree with you on this one... Sure, there are lots of spreads and each of them has a certain focus but IMO this does not make them perfect nor does it mean that only spreads which already exist are good and/or will work. You use laws which need to be followed in order to survive as a social being. Although this is true its a wrong example IMO. There are many laws and not all of these laws are a simple matter of "right and wrong", "do or don't" and "use or don't use". Many, maybe most, laws leave a choice to the people; the choice how one should interpret them. After all; thats where judges come into the picture. And not to mention the fact that laws are evolving, like everything does in life. New ones are created, old ones are altered (or even dropped) and even on the scale of interpretation there is a form of progress being made (think of the Judge explaining and using the law). Does this make 1 law the True Way ? I think not since its not just "the law", there is so much more to it.

The same goes for spreads IMO. There are dozens of very good spreads out there which can be used, but this does not make those The True Spreads. Thats simply impossible; in the beginning even those spreads had to be created by someone. You may refer to these people as the experts but why should that automaticly mean that such expertise is a thing of the past ? That doesn't make sense at all; like everything around us we also evolve. We grow, get better, gain knowledge and insight, and become more and more aware as we progress. If this is true for animals, humans and the things they practice, why would Tarot be left out of this proces ?

The way I see Tarot is the cards being a tool which you can use to unlock certain knowledge. Although it is common practice to use a tool according to predefined guidelines it does not mean any attempt to seek out new ways and methods in order to get results are futile per definition. That simply would go against the rules of nature itself. 


bec  29 Sep 2003 
since I am redoing the site(again) hopefully it will be easier to navigate also for ones with modems.

3 card spreads:
http://www.anjastarot.dk/spreads/3card/Index-3card.htm

spreads:
http://www.anjastarot.dk/spreads/index.htm 


The How to place the cards ? thread was originally posted on 18 Mar 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.

 
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