Last Question: WHAT'S WITH THE DOG???!!!!

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 29 Mar 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kiama	29 Mar 2002
I have noticed that it seems to be 'tradition' to have some sort of dog, or a black cat with the Fool on the edge of the cliff. Firstly, what on Earth is it doing there? Secondly, I have noticed that many of the Golden Dawn ritual decks (Y'know, the ones which really go into the Golden Dawn teachings) such as Golden Dawn Magical, Hermetic, and Thoth, have this huge slavering beast for a dog. Both the Hermetic and Golden Dawn Mgical have the Fool holding the leash of this slavering wolf-like beast, whilst theThoth has the fool being nastily bitten by it. Then, we come to the RW deck and its clones... Suddenly, that big slavering beast has become this annoying yappy thing! What happened? What's the difference? Kiama

DollChica	29 Mar 2002
I think that the annoying little yappy thing is supposed to be warning the Fool that he's about to fall into oblivion. Or something to that effect. But then, it could also be a hungry stray for all I know.

Umbrae	29 Mar 2002
Dog? Perhaps it represents the concept of Coyote/trickster (pretty much a universal concept). Ever notice that the dog is NEVER Pekinese, Toy Poodle, Basenji…you know, one of those really yappy…uh, sorry… It’s the trickster concept.

Bings	29 Mar 2002
I'm very new to tarot but... I look at the dog as a "bark of warning" against acting too impulsively or foolishly. That is what I learned a few months ago and it just seems to work for me. Dianne

zorya	29 Mar 2002
very timely question as we aproach april FOOLS day. when pope gregory XIII, changed the new year from march 25 to january 1, those that refused to change were called fools or april fools. in several decks the dog is at the heels of the fool as february is at the heels of january. the wolf (or dog) was associated with february and man was associated with january. in northern europe the fool was equated with jack in the green or the wylde man. many people, long ago, believed they saw the wylde man and descibed him as being hairy and wolf like. maybe some of our english members can confirm this?

VGimlet	30 Mar 2002
I also remember seeing some early tarot cards where the dog appeared to be chasing and biting the man - as people did long ago to chase vagabonds away from their villages. It kind of evolved into being a companion for the fool, rather than an adversary.

blumoon	30 Mar 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Lilyaka I also remember seeing some early tarot cards where the dog appeared to be chasing and biting the man sounds like something i read somewhere, i can't remember where now, that the dog on the cliff is actually trying to chase the "fool" OFF the cliff! :)

Geenius at Wrok	30 Mar 2002
The dog is there to make you ask the question once articulated by Obi-Wan Kenobi: "Who is more fool—the fool, or the fool who follows him?" :)

Talisman	30 Mar 2002
'Lo all, Am enjoying this. Kiama, if you haven't read it yet, I think you might enjoy Paula Gibby's wonderful review of Le Tarot du Chien on Tarot Passages. Talisman

mooncat2	30 Mar 2002
I see him as cautionary. When we're young he's nought but a yappy little nusiance. The older we get the bigger and more menacing he becomes - his influence holding us back from venturing into the unknown.

Lion-O	30 Mar 2002
The mage deck does not have a dog or something similar on it. It does show a small "gargoyle" like being some floors below the top. But it could just as well be a mere statue. Its obvious that, being the fool he could be, he doesn't care at all about it. Back to the Rider deck; the dog is merely a companion IMO which adds to my interpretation that the fool is actually having a very good time.

Kiama	31 Mar 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Lilyaka I also remember seeing some early tarot cards where the dog appeared to be chasing and biting the man - as people did long ago to chase vagabonds away from their villages. It kind of evolved into being a companion for the fool, rather than an adversary. Yep: In early decks, and pre-Wirth/Waite/Thoth decks, the dog was frequently pictured as having just ripped the seat of the Fool's trousers off! What I'm really interested in is how the dog, which seems to be a fairly important symbol for this card, an change so drastically?! Some say the dog is warning the Fool, others say he is pushing him over the edge.... Just what is this damn dog doing???!!!! I'm not having a go at anyone, I'm just annoyed cuz in nearly every single Fool card there is a dg, and don't understand it! Kiama

Thirteen	01 Apr 2002
The dog, like the cat, is connected to the Moon, the unconscious. So, among other things, it can also represent instincts, wildness, etc. As has been pointed out, the dog has two sides, warning the fool, or harrying him. Is the dog the fools inner instincts, or some outer chaotic force?

jmd	01 Apr 2002
Is it the case that, as Kiama says, 'In early decks ... the dog was frequently pictured as having just ripped the seat of the Fool's trousers off'? During mediaeval times, the 'trousers' were more like 'leggings', which were able to be rolled up or down. That the dog-like creature is seen jumping at the Fool's hind-leg doesn't indicate a nasty dog-response. It could be, just as in the more modern interpretations, the Fool's companion. So what does the dog signify? or can we even isolate a meaning for this picture? I think that the meanings which have already been given above should provide even such an experienced person as yourself with requisite background... another train of thought and investigation: in which other cards is there a dog (or dog-like animal), and what is its relationship to the whole card? How were (and are) dogs used? How would a 'juggler' or 'minstrel' have incorporated a dog in his (can I include 'her' as well here?) act? How would village dogs have reacted to a travelling minstrel? How would a traveller, walking through possibly dangerous territory, have possibly used a companion for protection? The ambiguity of the card is partly what gives it its wealth!

arizonagirl	01 Apr 2002
With every tarot book I've read, it seems that if they mention the dog at all they ask the same three questions: Is the dog accompanying the man? Is the dog chasing the man? Is the dog barking to warn the man? Then they leave it up to the reader to decide. However, Robin Wood states the dog "which symbolizes his friends, or his own unconscious mind, is trying desperately to warn him of the danger."

Kitty	01 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama Then, we come to the RW deck and its clones... Suddenly, that big slavering beast has become this annoying yappy thing! What happened? What's the difference? Kiama :) he he he, your post made me have a giggle, I have a great book which has explanations of symbols used in tarot, unfortunately I am at work and I don't have it with me. I will send you what it says tomorrow. Does anyone have 78 degress handy, what does Rachael Pollock say about the dog?

Major Tom	02 Apr 2002
Again I'm going to quote The Tarot by Paul Foster Case because I think it answers the question as to why the dog is there: "The little white dog is a descendant of wolves and jackals. Thus he is a human adaptation, whereby something given in a wild and dangerous state by the unmodified processes of nature has been changed into a friend, helper and companion of man."

ajoite	11 Apr 2002
I was taught that the dog is the sub conscience and is warning the fool to watch where he is going

mags@Treadwells	01 Jul 2003
Way I've been taught/Read , since I started in 1984: Above all, this is the card of a leap of faith. Fool is meant to leap into unknown. Dog is the Fool's instinct/unconcious mind, telling him to remember to trust what he's feeling, his instincts, not to intellectualise the matter/ Just needs to start that journey. Cliff isn t so much imminent peril ahead, or anything, just the start of the leap - the excitement/at beginning of any unknown project/leap.

Le_Corsair	01 Jul 2003
Bark bark! (what is it, Lassie?) Bark! Barkbark bark! (the calf is in quicksand?) Bark! (c'mon, everyone, the calf is in trouble!) Bark Bark! (thanks, Lassie!) Bob :THERM :SL :OL :WL :CL

Khatruman	01 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama Yep: In early decks, and pre-Wirth/Waite/Thoth decks, the dog was frequently pictured as having just ripped the seat of the Fool's trousers off! Ohhh, wait..so it is the Coppertone ad!!!!! Ahh, the tarot of advertisers, and the Coppertone girl is the Fool??? *L*

catboxer	02 Jul 2003
Paul Foster Case's "The Tarot" has already been quoted, but he had an even more succinct definition of the dog in his little booklet called "Highlights of Tarot" (BOTA, 1931), whose main purpose is to convey coloring instructions for the BOTA deck. There he says, "The little dog symbolizes the intellect, the merely reasoning mind. He is a faithful companion but must have a master." (P. 17) That's a neat, very clear concept. If the fool is the self, or the whole self, then the dog might be seen as that sort of ego-differentiated part of the self that Case calls mere reason, or that Martin Luther less generously referred to as "that whore, reason." Also, we need to mention that it's not always a dog -- sometimes (especially in Marseille decks) it's a cat. At times, too, it can be nasty in ways that only cats are capable of. A while back jmd posted this: http://www.tarotforum.net/attachment.php?s=&postid=84693

Ravenswing	04 Jul 2003
As I see it (which may not be very well at the moment; I have to get my eyes checked-- my glasses aren't working too good...), the dog, like any other symbol in the cards, means exactly what one believes it to represent. No more, no less. Although one should always reserve the right to grow... or change one's mind. fly well Ravenswing

Kistarr	04 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Thirteen As has been pointed out, the dog has two sides, warning the fool, or harrying him. I think that the matter of him warning or harrying the poor Fool is all a matter of perceptions. Here's my take.... The Fool is a bright cheerful lad, kind but maybe a little absent-minded who after finishing his chores dons his best garb and heads towards the fair. He's paying no attention to his surroundings just playing his flute and daydreaming. His mother loves her son very much and knows about his careless ways so she says to the dog, "Dog. Go after my idiot son and make sure he stays out of trouble...or at least comes home in one piece." The dog, with a happy bark, sets off after his young master. I bet the Fool knows his mom sent the dog after him and who wants a tag-a-long, or a spy! LOL The boy may see his warning as harrying. "Dog...jeez would'ya leave me alone!" The dog may see it in a completely different way. *Woof* {you darn fool you're about to walk off a cliff...darn no scooby snacks for me if he falls.} oh well...that's my two cents. #^_^#

Belladonna	05 Jul 2003
I see the dog as representing that which has been domesticated within us. It is our logical mind, our reasoning mind that is yapping at our heels and trying to warn us. "Don't do that! Don't go there! You know you'll look like a fool! This is so unlike you! This isn't a very good idea!" etc., etc. I think the giant, scary, monstrous dogs are the same, but representing our logic grown out of proportion- grown into fear. "That'll be the end of you if you take one more step! You'll never be able to come back if you continue. This is the point of no return." The fool take's a risk, a leap of faith in innocence and naivity, but not completely. His "faithful" companion follows him every step of the way, to warn him, remind him, and annoy him, too! But the dog merely follows behind, it does not lead the way. So I beleive the fool takes his journey with courage as well because he is never totally freee of the fear and persuasion of the "logical" mind and yet begins his journey anyway.

Macavity	05 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by catboxer A while back jmd posted this: http://www.tarotforum.net/attachment.php?s=&postid=84693 :laugh: Reminds me of the urban myth(?) story of the guy doing emergency repairs to under-sink garbage disposal unit. Cat crawls under his bath robe and... Aaaaargh! ;) Distraught spouse finds him unconcious, spread-eagled on floor with (badly bumped) head still inside under-sink closet. Paramedics bring him round and diagnose mild concussion - And severe lacerations to... }) Macavity

Macavity	05 Jul 2003
On a more serious point, I came across something that suggested the dog is actually a wolf... in the RWS. Well, a miniature-wolf maybe? ;) An interesting thread is... http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13045&highlight=bosch The prodigal son is being (vaguely) pursued by a dog. A cat has been skinned and the pelt(s) attached to his backpack. Eeeek ;) I think there's quite a lot of art-historian type discussions on such things... Macavity

Shoshin	08 Jul 2003
I just read something interesting and thought that it applied perfectly to this topic. What about the dog representing the dog star, Sirius? Here's the quote: "The rising of Sirius just before the sun, each year, gave the ancient Egyptians warning of the approaching inundation of the Nile; hence they compared it to a faithful dog, whosse bark gives warning of approaching danger, and named it Sothis, Anumbis, and Thotes, the barker, or monitor. This brilliant and beautiful star thus early became known as the "dog-star." The Egyptians deified it under the name of Anubis, and this god was emblematically represented by the figure of a man with the head of a dog." Perhaps it was too obvious to be seen?

jmd	09 Jul 2003
Shoshin, thankyou for this input. I always find it highly interesting how from an image, myriad insights may emerge - and yet these, as always, the broader and deeper studies outside of what may be expected. It is unlikely that the animal (whether canine or not) was intended to be linked to either Sirius, (the alpha star Canis Major, Orion's hunting dog) or Canis Minor. Yet, here is a constellation which pictorially fits quite well with representations of the very card we are considering - Orion carrying a club over his shoulder, followed at his heels by his faithful canine companion. Though again of interest that Sirius marked the annual inundation of the Nile (and comments in Sanctum Sanctorum also make mention of this with reference to the star on XVII the Star card), it is also worth pointing out that the Sun's 'entry' into the area of this Star also marked the Athenian new year, and concerns for pestilence (again, wonderfully represented by earlier depictions of the Fol card). Again, these reflections are so important, for from them may deeper insights emerge...

Rusty Neon	09 Jul 2003
The identity of the animal in the Tarot de Marseille Fool card is more mysterious than for the Rider deck Fool card. A number of French language TdM authors query as to whether the animal is of the feline family rather than canine.

Yatima	14 Jul 2003
To me the Dog is what the Fool makes a fool: while he sees all around him, even (since Waite) the abyss of chaos, he does not realize what lies behind, beyond, within himself, eternally in his back: his unconsciousness that connects him to the dark sides of the chaos. In the oldest decks there is either no dog or, if it is there, the Fool really is a beggar. Then it stands for the zivilisation that outcasts the wanderer. Like in Schubert's "Winterreise" the dogs bark at the wanderer to make him leave the village not disturbing people in their sleep because of his restlessness...

mac22	28 Jan 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama I have noticed that it seems to be 'tradition' to have some sort of dog, or a black cat with the Fool on the edge of the cliff. Firstly, what on Earth is it doing there? Secondly, I have noticed that many of the Golden Dawn ritual decks (Y'know, the ones which really go into the Golden Dawn teachings) such as Golden Dawn Magical, Hermetic, and Thoth, have this huge slavering beast for a dog. Both the Hermetic and Golden Dawn Mgical have the Fool holding the leash of this slavering wolf-like beast, whilst theThoth has the fool being nastily bitten by it. Then, we come to the RW deck and its clones... Suddenly, that big slavering beast has become this annoying yappy thing! What happened? What's the difference? Kiama In my view the dog in RWS represents unconditional loyalty, affection, vitality, enthusiasm and vital force. Both the Fool & the dog gaze is focused above the horizon NOT on it... which to me means they're focused on the spiritual and not the mundane.

HOLMES	28 Jan 2004
i thought the old dog was trying to scare the fool into jumping over the ravinne, while the little benji is barking to warn him and thinking to himself "bark bark BARK bark" "oh dog poo i got to jump to " until i read in the tarot symbolism today that the big dog was trying to stop the fool from going but the fool didnt' care and ripped his own pants to do what he wants. and the big dog thought "bark bark bark " "find let him find out the hard way"

mac22	28 Jan 2004
The dog is on the left at the heel ....where he ought to be for a domesticated well trained animal.

Samweiz	30 Jan 2004
There are many meanings that the dog symbolizes and its meaning could change with each querant and tarot spread configuration. This where our intuitive connection with the querant comes into play ... so in one reading the dog could be a major player and in another reading the dog is a minor adjunct ... "I feel the dog represents someone very loyal to you who is trying to warn you concerning some impulsive action you are taking which could lead to a disaster ... and frankly, you are oblivious to the warning itself, or so naive that you take the warning too lightly", or "You are about to take a leap of faith into some venture that looks risky, and you have a loyal friend or partner who is supporting you in this." I did post this on the other Fool & Dog thread, but brought it here also, since this seemed to be followed more. Sam

The Last Question: WHAT'S WITH THE DOG???!!!! thread was originally posted on 29 Mar 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.