do suits represent seasons

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 08 Apr 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

BluSeraphim	08 Apr 2002
I have heard that when pinpointing a time frame, different suits represent different times of year, eg. swords=winter etc. can anyone confirm and/or elaborate?

Lion-O	08 Apr 2002
Although I don't have any experience with this issue I'm quite convinced this is another aspect which should easily be handled by the Tarot deck. I recall another thread in which the topic was focusing on locating persons and another fellow 'Aeclectic'er' told me that the different suits could also be used to locate things (north, east, south and west). Since there are also 4 seasons I would not be surprised at all if this was also an option. In fact; I guess it would susprise me if this wasn't one ;)

Pedeka	08 Apr 2002
I have read that Swords=Winter Cups = Spring Wands = Summer Pentacles = Fall if that is the kind of correlation that you are looking for? I also seem to remember that in Laura Clarson's book The Tarot : the Method in its Magic, that she had a great system for determining a time frame for a reading on a Celtic Cross spread with one extra cards set to the side. I don't remember the details to it though and my copy of the book has hopelessly left my side, to go to the "Land of things that get borrowed" :( I can tell you that the book is only $10 on Amazon.com though, cause I have been looking into replacing my copy. Hope that helps some. Pedeka

Butterfly	08 Apr 2002
the lady who taught me had a system as well as seasons, where each suit represented either days, weeks, months, years. So 3 of one suit might mean three weeks. I didn't ever have much luck, except for one occasion where I was able to predict the day my hubbie proposed. I don't remember it bescause I was so sceptical, but I have it written down somewhere....

zorya	09 Apr 2002
i've seen many different interpretations as to directions and seasons, here's the one i've always used; east wands spring (because the sun rises in the east and is therefor the beginning) south cups summer (traveling around clockwise)(water is nourishment for things growing in summer) west pentacles/discs fall (harvest) north swords winter

mooncat2	09 Apr 2002
Looks like finding a system you prefer and sticking to it. This is mine. Swords - Spring Timeframe - days Wands - Summer " " - weeks Cups - Autumn " " - months Pentacles - Winter " " - years

Geenius at Wrok	09 Apr 2002
I have a hard time thinking of cups/water as anything but winter, because I'm used to Chinese correspondences: water - north - winter - bamboo - scholar - black fire - south - summer - orchid - woodcutter - red wood - east - spring - plum - fisherman - green metal - west - autumn - chrysanthemum - farmer - white earth - center - no season - yellow Of course, this scheme shoots tarot suit correspondences all to hell. :)

Jewel	09 Apr 2002
In terms of suit correspondences I learned the same ones that MoonCat2 uses. The time frame is new to me. Thanks for posting.

grailmaiden	09 Apr 2002
Well you've started something here! There obviously are many systems. The one used in the Arthurian is: Swords - spring, air Spears (wands) - summer, fire Grail (cups) - autumn, water Stone (pentacles) - winter, earth Grail

Umbrae	09 Apr 2002
That is the rotation I have always used. Swords - spring, air days East wands - summer, fire weeks South cups - autumn, water months West pentacles - winter, earth years North

Malachite	09 Apr 2002
Like people have said, i think the link is through elements... Depending how you interpret Wands/Swords, of course, although i think most people lean to Swords=Air, Wands=Fire...so Swords=Winter (cold and drafty), Wands=Summer (presumably Winter in Southern Hemisphere?!), Cups=Spring(the cup overfilleth), and Pentacles/Disks=Autumn (Fall)(gathering the bounty...)

zorya	09 Apr 2002
i think of the wands fire, as the spark, that starts things. air/swords change what is, so i can't think of swords as spring.

mooncat2	09 Apr 2002
I can never think of Wands as anything but fire - heat - summer so here in the Southern Hemisphere I change the direction and Wands are North , Pentacles - South. I see Swords as air - everything begins with a thought, new beginnings - Spring

BluSeraphim	10 Apr 2002
To everyone who responded to my thread about suits representing seasons, thank you! After reading all of the replies, I thought I should let you know that I am going with my original hunch, and that is exactly what zorya suggested. I believe fire is the beginning of creation, therefore wands = spring, followed by the nourishment of living things by water, cups = summer, then the harvest of the fall = pentacles, and the cold edge of the sword of justice, (impartial thought without feeling) = winter. I could be wrong from a purely academic standpoint, but I truly believe that tarot is about divine intuition, and the presence of God within is unique to each of us, and should be interpreted on an inner level first and foremost. Thanks again everyone, Blu.

Thirteen	10 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by mooncat2 Looks like finding a system you prefer and sticking to it. This is mine. Swords - Spring Timeframe - days Wands - Summer " " - weeks Cups - Autumn " " - months Pentacles - Winter " " - years This is the one I know, too. It took me a while to come to terms with Swords as Spring as they always seemed cold and "wintery" to me. But then I looked at them as the transistion between winter/summer. Green things "cutting" their way up out of the hard earth. Ice falling, chipping, melting. And most of all that "AIR" which is swords--cold, crisp, cutting. Like a sword fight, Spring is perhaps the most violent season, the most active. You "wake up" with Spring--your mind comes alive. Wands, as others have mentioned, is always hot, fiery summer. Bon fires and long sunny days. The imagination soars. Cups is Autumn rains, falling leaves falling into pools and tumbling down streams. The emotions swell and overflow. Pentacles is that still, quiet of winter. The earth gone silent, resting, still. It's hibernation in the cave. The body rests and waits. Least, that's how I see it.

arizonagirl	11 Apr 2002
I agree with Mooncat and Thirteen. From Thirteen's beautiful comment, it's easy to understand the time of day association of the suits, also. Spring, being the dawn of the year; summer being noon; autumn being evening; and winter as midnight.

MeeWah	11 Apr 2002
BluSeraphim: Am late to this thread, but I thought I'd comment anyway. I use the same seasonal-directional correspondences as Zorya for the same reasons as you. Have been using this "formula" for years although I was not aware initially of there being any academic associations. Like you, I also believe that in Tarot, the divine intuition is the inner guiding force & what speaks. I also use the Chinese Tarot frequently. Since this deck is based on Chinese tradtions & beliefs, I sometimes switch to the particular correspondences Geenius refers to as those will seem more appropriate, but not always. I do not have a fixed formula for days, weeks, months & years as those are dictated by the moment of the particular throw. BTW: This subject (like that of court cards, reversals & shuffling) has arisen previously & is one that is always useful to take another look. It is fascinating to examine & to exchange different approaches!

Butterfly	18 Apr 2002
Menmay, I bumped this up when I saw your question. this was a great discussion on the topic- just shows everyone has their own method.

DeLani	21 Apr 2002
BluSeraphim, I'm with you on the seasonal correspondences. Though I use the Wiccan directions to the suits (Swords - east, Wands - south, Cups - west, Pentacles - north), I have found that the seasonal correspondences don't quite work that way. I see swords as winter - as in the cold, times of scarcity, hunger, and conflict (probably from being cooped up!). Wands - spring. All the plants are shooting up out of the earth, budding & blooming, just like the wands in the cards. Lots of energy, and sexuality is heightened. Cups - summer - when love blooms (most people get married in the summer, at least here in America), people hang out in lakes, pools, and rivers a lot. Pentacles - fall - harvest. The fruits of the earth are gathered up, abundance is abound, and energy is focused on the home and family (think about the holiday season in America). But everybody has their own system. Whatever works for you! Blessed Be, DeLani

firemaiden	16 Jun 2002
Alas! In reviewing all of these wildly conflicting attributions of the suits to seasons, it occurs to me that the answer to BluSeraphim's question must be "no"!! Through your divergent answers, it appears any attribution is possible, and therefore none. Furthermore, in all I have read so far, every book on the matter finds a different attribution! An on-line tarot course Introduction to the Tarot : Patricia Sherman 1998 put it this way: quoting: --------------- Cardinal Points of the Compass My own "memory key" method relates the cards to the cardinal points of the compass. Proceeding from the right, the points are East, South, West and North. East is where the sun rises, and in Native American lore it is the "Place of Beginnings." In the northern hemisphere, South is the direction of the midday sun (Fire), represented by Wands or Batons, and North is the direction of Winter's icy, cutting wind (Air), represented by Swords. Since West is almost universally recognized as the direction of Water, that only leaves Earth for the East. This makes perfect sense if one lives in continental Europe where the cards originated, the vast land-mass of Asia is to the east, and the Atlantic Ocean is to the west. Fortuitously, "earth" and "east" have a lovely alliterative relationship, as do "water" and "west". So we now have: East =Earth (Pentacles) =physical life South =Fire (Wands) =energy & growth West =Water (Cups) =changeability North =Air (Swords) =mental sharpness " (end quoting) -------- That is fine, but my elves deck has specified that acorns (wands)are winter! (because one needs fire in winter?) I like Spring for pentacles, and the Rider Waite deck shows the ace of pentacles looking veeeeeeery springy, but if the suit represents physical earth, and nature, as opposed to non-physical life, then it should incorporate all of the seasons!

The do suits represent seasons thread was originally posted on 08 Apr 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.