Where does the power come from ?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Apr 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Lion-O	03 Apr 2002
I've participated in quite some discussions and some of them sort of 'tipped" this specific topic but due to the topic of the thread itself there wasn't (or seemed) much 'room' to dive into it. So after studying this forum some more for equal threads, and not finding any, I decided to give it a try... So what is the driving force in readings or where does it all come from in your opinion ? As to myself; I'm beginning to have some doubts, but thats nothing special since I started doubting a lot of things when I came here... I think the power comes from within but I'm starting to have some doubts as to the exact influence of the cards themselves. Do they have power? I think so. But to what extend... I'm not so sure, but I guess I'll learn. (A quick addition; please note that 'power' also includes the effort to lift the cards themselves. I'm adding this for people, like myself, who's native language isn't English and can have other associations with the verb.)

Kiama	03 Apr 2002
I think that the power mostly comes from the reader themselves, however, I don't think I can attempt to deny the possibility of something else working to make those particular cards fall into that particular place, at that particular time.... Kiama

zorya	03 Apr 2002
it's taken me many many years to feel sure of this, but i believe it comes from the spirits. it's hard to explain but the higher or faster my energy (kind of a light energy as opposed to a physical energy) grows, the clearer my readings are. i believe this because it has affected all areas of my life. syncronicities, dreams, "knowing" things, precognitions, intuitions, "seeing" things. a complete shift in how i view life. i just reread what i wrote and i sure sound flaky! LOL

Diana	03 Apr 2002
edited

Jenny-Li	04 Apr 2002
Hi! Big interesting question! I like...! :) I'd say it's in the reader, but I know there are a lot of people who wouldn't agree. I personally feel that I need to feel the querent and his or her energies to do a really good reading, but I know a girl who says she doesn't want to know _anything_ about the querent, because that takes her focus off the cards! To me, the querents's energies define the "Situation" well as much as the question that acts as a starting point for the reading, and that is something I just can't do with out. Without that I'd feel it was only me, my imagination and a bunch of cards. To me the magic is in sensing the universal energies about the querent and his or her situation. That's why I see the cards as tools, useful and important - oh, definitely, but not magical per se. The cards trigger the reader's ability to read energies. That's how I see it. Part from that, yes spirits are involved too - how could they not be? In my view, everything is interrelated, everything is tied together, that's how it all works, and that's _why_ it all works...! ;D

Lion-O	04 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Diana I believe that the power comes from the reader's own ability to tune in to the energy and knowledge of the universe, or the spirits, in zorya's worlds. Gotcha. Now, you should know that I'm one of those folks who read something and can remember it for some time ;) In another conversation this subject also got tipped and I recall your comment about the cards, allthough they may seem like ordinary paper cards, do transport and carry energy. I didn't get into this at that time since it didn't seem proper for the topic back then but since you did raise my curiosity I was wondering if you could elaborate a bit more?

zorya	04 Apr 2002
worlds? hee hee hee

Diana	04 Apr 2002
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aeonx	04 Apr 2002
Diana: you're talking about the anima mundi? That is, the soul of the world that captures all souls of everything in the Universe. Let me try to illustrate it: Imagine a type of black hole in the Universe. All souls that has ever 'lived', is gathered here. No, actually not the souls themselves, but their wisdom. This hole absorbs every tiny piece of knowledge about us -man-. Whenever someone is using their tarot deck, they connect with anima mundi (or my imaginary hole). I don't know if you all see my point here... *l* Anyway, when you lay your cards out, you interpret it. Where did this wisdom come from? The person itself? I don't believe that. I think we are 'fed' this information, and some are better to interpret it than others. We also, of course, learn more and more as we go along. Exactly. *l* Hope you understand. Blessings.

zorya	04 Apr 2002
well said diana!

Jenny-Li	04 Apr 2002
Aeonx: I recognize the terms in what you write - but where's the theory from? Is it Jung? It did make sense - at least to me! Is there some recommended additional reading to dig into this theory - without having to earn a university degree to understand it... ;) I think this is another way of describing what I was rambling about before, about "reading energies", the wisdom is sort of "out there", you can't see it, you definitely can't touch it, but it's there alright...! Light! Jenny :D

Lion-O	04 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Diana If I was on a desert island with no Tarot deck (Oh, Woe is Me) and I had a few pieces of paper that I tore into little pieces and wrote the numbers 1 to 22 (or 0 to 21 if you prefer), and then the suits on the other pieces of cards, the cards would be capturing the collective memory of all the other Tarot decks that have ever existed, and I could use these in exactly the same way as any other deck. Perhaps I've answered your question. Perhaps not at all. Perhaps I didn't even understand your question. But that's what I have to say for today :) hehehe, gotta love it :cool: Anyway, you've answered even more then just my question. Besides having a little more understanding in what you meant you also shed more light on your comments about my Mage deck some weeks ago, which I also really welcome. Thanks very much for your input.

Original Destiny	05 Apr 2002
For me the cards act as a focal point for the person reading them. It is a bit like a prism breaking up sunlight..we don't actually SEE light..we know when it is there but until it is refracted thru a prism we cant see what it is...client/cards/reader..combine to make it work..three things coming together in a tried and tested way...it is a catalyst:TFOOL

Diana	05 Apr 2002
edited

Original Destiny	05 Apr 2002
Amina mundi...Universal soul... the idea is that when we die all our knowledge, all our being , experiences are integrated into the Univeral mind....we become one...we meld...from this we begin...to this we return.....

aeonx	08 Apr 2002
Jenny-Li: I was first introduced to the term 'anima mundi' in Jane Lyle's book 'Great Book about Tarot' (not sure about the title, couldn't find it at amazon). I've also encountered the term in Jane Hope's book 'The Secret Language of the Soul'. Jung has also mentioned it, but this term and it's philosophy has existed for centuries. I've found a quote by Basilius Valentinus which I think illustrate the idéa good. Quoted from Jung's book 'Psychologie und Alchemie': "The Earth is not dead, but it is inhabited by a Spirit who gives it life and soul. Everything that is created, even minerals, gets its strengh from the Earth Spirit. This Spirit is life, it gets nourishment from the stars and it gives nourishment to all living beings which it keeps in its womb." I'm sorry for the translation, but I had to translate it from Norwegian to English...

meatbox666	12 Apr 2002
Spirits......The power comes from Spirits. No lie...........yep....Spirits. I think the power comes from the Devil.. Seriously......After all...there is a Devil card in there. Really.........is that the dark side of human nature........or is it exactly what it means....HIM.....That Entity whose best Trick is convincing the world that he /it...doesnt exist. Hmmmmmmm hell........i am not afraid.....If this is the case well...........I am a fool....after all.........we have the Fool card in there to. Does it really mean..man on a journey.....an impulsive creative intuitive person....or that the individual that is engaging in the card reading is just that..... a fool..literally. Who knows. After all...There is the Death card........well..it has its meaning...........OHHHHH a situation has ended....a new change in ways /or ways of thinking.........really.........hmmmmmm.......we are going to die and......if that entity does exist...The one Spirit that we have been consulting foranswers..........that is....if that is the case....... Oh Gosh I remember when I was in church once...they (pastor and friends)...Well like he said that Death is a spirit also...cuz like .....later Death, Hell and were going in the lake....Oh well...........I like reading Tarot cards Uh, that is all .

Kiama	13 Apr 2002
Meatbox 666: But, what about if one doesn't believe in the Christian version of things, and thus doesn't believe the Devil exists at all? Does the power sill come from him then? Kiama

purplelady	13 Apr 2002
I agree with aeonx, but I would call it the collective unconscious.

meatbox666	13 Apr 2002
.........., Well I don't know.

cricket	13 Apr 2002
Very interesting. Kudos to... um... *draws a blank* whoever it was that started this. *L* Sign me in with that 'collective unconsciousness' way of thinking. But add this - maybe the more centered a person is, the easier it is to pick up on whatever energies are being fed to him/her. And maybe, just maybe, this person has to be either a very old or very young part of the whole to be able to pick up on them at all. I personally believe that those who can pick up these energies and interpret them are ancient in spirit. Most seem to have a calmness and sense of maturity about them in comparison to others in their 'human' age group. (Human as in span of a single lifetime.) If you think of it that way, you may just realize you might be talking to someone thousands of years old in spirit! *LOL*

SusanAe	27 Apr 2002
O.K. meatbox666 made me laugh out loud, Is it Satan? Evil evil evil!!!!! The trinity I believe is in play with it, the Cosmic, the Collective Unconciousness and the Individual Subconsious, you can call these by other names as well, Father, Son, Holy Ghost, Time as the Spirit too, Past, Present Future BUT what makes it alive, or have voice, taking it from pretty pictures on cardboard to VOICE is the beleif system to it, or the personal energy of faith which requires an open mind of course, and with the Reader skill. Faith, or what we believe that we don't "see" is the "Force" so to speak which is its power, alignment necessary, like the Magician.. from above being manifested below. The Reader establishes this altar, which can be done unconsciously, the Querent enters the reading with their own very powerful energy.. like when 2 or more gather together the "prayer" has multplied in its power? When I don't get answers, or it seems dead in voice.. it's because I think the Spirit, yep, the spirit has not come on down. The replies on this thread are fantastic why I thrill to the entire life of Tarot.. thank-you thank-you. Susan Ae. -----------------

Wishcrafter	28 Apr 2002
Meatbox 666 Man, you sound just like my Mother What's up! Why are you so angry? Is this sarcasm,I hope. Don't you feel the good, flow~~~ from the cards. You can't really believe the power of the cards come from Satan, you would'nt be enlightened enough to want to be on this board. I see you like to shock people too. Why are you pushing people away with this Fascade? I am sending you LOVE and HEALING Arrows of Light ))))------------->>>>>>>>> U <<<<<<<<< -----------------(((( Wishcrafter '

vijeno	28 Apr 2002
To be perfectly honest, I believe that every possible answer to that question reveals more of the personal ideological preferences of the speaker than of any "truth". Since we don't know anything really, we enter a world of speculation in which everything depends only on our own longing. Let's take myself as an example: I'm an agnostic. Therefore, I don't believe that any spirit or force external to myself, the querent and the communicative universe between us drives the cards. One part of my ideology is that I want to stay as far as possible away from any "positive" ideology. Therefore, I won't accept cabbalistic interpretations, for example, though I spent a lot of time studying cabbalah and love this system for it's beauty and complexity. Since my childhood, I was into psychology. Runs in the family, somehow. So, the thought that the cards are a path to the subconscious like dreams, suits me well. But, I also like to have a little bit of mystics in my life, so I keep a little backdoor for external forces to come in, mostly in the thought that the way the cards work is not so important after all... And that's how it goes. Still, the cards do something to me, they get me closer to the querent, they allow me to take just a little look into their life. And that's the best thing they can do, in my opinion. =========== meatbox666: LOL. I really think that this is a valuable way to read the cards... humorously and relaxed. And I also think you did a good caricature of what people sometimes do to the cards. We needn't take it all too serious, you know. For me, it's always important that I am a perfect Fool at times, and that I have the right to do so. It's a privilege to know you're not the most important thing in the universe. vijeno (and now: out into the sunshine!!)

The Where does the power come from ? thread was originally posted on 03 Apr 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.