minor arcanna help me to understand.

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 19 Jun 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

HOLMES	19 Jun 2002
for the past 12 years since i started reading the tarot i soley focused on the major arcanna content to leave the minor to keywords and impressions yet now i feel compelled to learn it in greater detail in order for someday when i feel confident to consider myself a tarot master i will be able to make my own tarot :O), so far what i gathered is the minor arcanna is minor events in one life. so i was thinking why these particular events out of the possible thoursands to millions we could have. then i rememebered from my social service worker program "the rites of passage" and thought to myself ah these are minor events in every one life. but who is walking these rites of passages for what reason. and why do they stop at 10? curious i turned to my now rarely read tarot books and books that came with the tarot. and have spent the last few days writing down keywords. and such. then i realized how are they coming up with these keywords. and i realized i know nothing about astralogy, kabbalah, numberlogy, and even the four suits, i didn't til now realize that swords were air (i honeslty thought swords would be fire til the buring aspects of the purfier, but that is the wands eheh) then i was reading the innerchild tarot book and realize they were transforming the strife, negative actions of the swords to the higher aspects of the swords, like courage, postive action, in fact the swords are called the swords of truth in that deck. in the mystical tarot the numbers are ace beginning two formation coming togetyher of opposites, three growth and expression four practical attainment, the material universe of logic five new change, uncertainity, (disturbance in the force)uncontroled activity six harmony in the face of changeand balance seven facing complex changes by devleopment of the soul eight balancing by putting things where they belong by judgment nine bringing things to an end. 10 over and about to begin again the swords are the qualitess necessary to survive boldness and courage, it is the suit of reason and judgment and exist in the world of action. so the ace of swords must mean the beginning of a new idea through action with courage. two of swords would consist of coming together to build on the new idea three growth of the new idea by expressing it four attaining the first step of the idea by following the material logic of the universe. five it brings new changes and uncertaintiy to the idea after the first step is complete six means harmonizing in the idea of action by balancing it out seven means facing the complex changes of the idea by developing your inner self eight putting things where they belong after you have made the decision in the mental order you have set forth. nine. the idea is coming to an end, the action ten it is over and time for a new beginning. i am confused as to how the three of swords which would symbolize growth of the new idea by expressing would lead to sorrow by the heart pierced by swords. does it mean we grow by hurting ourselves in the endevour of the action. ? and the seven of swords which usally means sabatoge and theivery, facing the complex changes of the idea. ? and the nine of swords, an person crying in the sleep in the nine , for it is coming ot the end. and the ten of swords it is over and your laying there stabbed in the back ? the ten of swords has such a bad aura around :O( perhaps it is time for a postive light take on the subject not to sugar coat everything that can go wrong but instead transcend the events to an higher ideal? even in the way it was before i see the swords as the leader. beginning the conqueror has a plan for war two the follower has come to be your inspiration and your strenth. three the beginning of the war thinking it was only be on fight. four the battle is over and you are resting having attained your goal. five yet the fight comes at you from an other area perhaps you were rebelled against or the one you conquored has come back for more six again you have won. and now everyone realizes it. seven of swords however you have to sabatoge the enemy by stealing their rescoures taking their resources from them. eight of swords it is not yet time to act but to rbuild up for the final charge. nine of swords the person is crying for it is the night before the final battle and they are worried they will lose. ten of swords you have conqueored your last enemy and now the dawn is breaking. do you walk the path of love, or social, or physical or go back to war perhaps reforming the world with your mental ideas ? yet suppose the it was all reversed? ace the beginning of war is upon you and you can see it coming and your are behind two , your best solider has left you thre you have lost many battles four , you have no respite to rest as the pressure is on. five they have beaten your main force and you are reduced by half six you are conquerored.and are fleeing with your heads down seven you are starting a rebellion refusiong to give up by sabotoging the others. or perhaps you are being sabotoge by your own people who do not want to fight any more. eight. there is no retreat you are surrounded by all sides. nine it is the night before the battle and you know you will lose and thus you are crying for your people ten you have lost brutally perhpas even killed by your own troops so they could surrender. ? how can we transpose these meanings to a more higher ideal? to be higher mental ideals like courage and boldness ? and even higher to truths ? i seriously feel the swords also represent the ego against which we fight againt to realize the highest truths againt our realities. what do you think ? eheh i didn't even touch the wands, pentacles or cups yet. hmm fire is the puriifeer, the water is the giver, what would air, and earth be ?

Kaz	19 Jun 2002
hmm, holmes, i will get back to you on this one as it is late here already. in the menatime, check out thirteens basics, they are ordered in aces, two's three's etc, and a great resource for any. you can find those here: http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/basics/index.html kaz

Scorpion	19 Jun 2002
Hi, Holmes! That is a very detailed question and I'm only going to scuff the surface at the moment as it's the end of the day. First of all, some people do regard Swords as Fire (although I don't) and in some decks they are transposed. I think it is Eileen Cannon Reeds Witches Tarot that explains she assigns Fire to Swords because it doesn't feel right to her to have a suit that can be consumed by its own element, and that fire "tempers" or strengthens metal. Amongst your collection of Tarot books, do you have "Tarot and the Tree of Life" by Isabel R Kliegman? I note you say you don't know much about the Qabalah - I didn't when I bought it but it is very clear reading - it only addresses the Minors and she starts with Kether (Crown - the top sphere) as the Aces and so Malchut (Earth/Kingdom) is assigned to the 10s. Her explanation for the Swords getting more difficult as you progress through the suit is that as an air and masculine suit, they are "happiest" at the "light" end or "top of the tree" where they remain "pure" in essence: the gravity of Malchut weighs them down. The same is true of Wands. In her view, it is only the feminine, downward pointing Earth and Water elements in the suits of Pentacles and Cups that actually become happier and more fulfilled at the "lower" levels. As for the three of Swords, she mentions that the threes are the "fulfilment" of each suit and asks "what good can we see in this particular image?" and comes to the conclusion "we are supposed to take pain into our hearts: that's what we are to do with pain" because that's how we change things. Hope this helps!

ChrisZ	21 Jun 2002
How do you pronounce it? is it AR-CAR-NA, or AR-CANE-A?

aeonx	21 Jun 2002
Holmes, this was very interesting reading. I'm looking forward to your posts on the other suit. I started writing my interpretation of the Ten of Swords, but I decided to post it in a new thread. We're discussing a lot of cards here for the time being! :D The most recent ones are: Lovers, Wheel of Fortune, Sun and the Devil. I will post my perception of the Ten of Swords now. ~aeonx~

Geenius at Wrok	21 Jun 2002
You learn something new every day. I've always pronounced it "ar-CAN-a," but I just looked in the dictionary (expecting, actually, to find the pronunciation "ar-CAH-na"), and apparently the correct pronunciation is "ar-CANE-a." In ASCII-IPA: WRONG \ar 'k&n @\ WRONG \ar 'kan @\ RIGHT \ar 'ke: n@\

wavebreaker	21 Jun 2002
Quote: Originally posted by ChrisZ How do you pronounce it? is it AR-CAR-NA, or AR-CANE-A? Try looking it up in the online Merriam-Webster dictionary and then click on the loudspeaker icon next to the word and you can hear the pronunciation. ;) According to them, it's ar-CANE-a.

Lee	21 Jun 2002
Quote: Originally posted by LouiQ Amongst your collection of Tarot books, do you have "Tarot and the Tree of Life" by Isabel R Kliegman? I note you say you don't know much about the Qabalah - I didn't when I bought it but it is very clear reading - it only addresses the Minors and she starts with Kether (Crown - the top sphere) as the Aces and so Malchut (Earth/Kingdom) is assigned to the 10s. Her explanation for the Swords getting more difficult as you progress through the suit is that as an air and masculine suit, they are "happiest" at the "light" end or "top of the tree" where they remain "pure" in essence: the gravity of Malchut weighs them down. The same is true of Wands. In her view, it is only the feminine, downward pointing Earth and Water elements in the suits of Pentacles and Cups that actually become happier and more fulfilled at the "lower" levels. Thanks, LouiQ, I really like that quote from Klingman's book, maybe I need to get that book. I think it's important, Holmes, to keep in mind that when A.E. Waite and Pamela Smith created their deck, which was the first to have pictures for the Minors, they didn't use just one system, i.e. Qabala or astrology, to come up with the pictures and meanings. They may have used Qabala and astrology to some extent, but I think mostly Waite was using fortune-telling meanings which had been assigned to the cards by previous authors, like Mathers and Etteilla, and these fortune-telling meanings aren't part of a system. So although trying to fit the pictures into a system can be an interesting exercise (that quote from Klingman looks particularly interesting), in the end I don't think any one system will really fit all the cards satisfactorily, because the pictures on the cards were created with a large reliance on elements which weren't part of a system (i.e., Etteilla's fortune-telling meanings). I do think it's a valuable exercise, though, to do what you've done, that is, create one or several scenarios that explain the cards in one suit as a story. Great question! :) -- Lee

Keslynn	21 Jun 2002
I am very interested in getting Klingman's book now. My wishlist grows longer! Argh! ;) But as LouiQ pointed out, one system might not necessarily work for the RWS decks or all others or YOU. However, knowing some Qabalah and astrology certainly can't hurt and could enrich personal understanding. Also, there are some Qabalah based decks out there, like Ellen Cannon Reed's Witches Tarot. Personally, I found that the best way for me to figure out the minors was to read what other people had to say and then figure it out for myself. I read in most of the major tarot books and checked out Thirteen's basics. Then I sat down in my living room and laid out all the minor arcana according to suit and number. I sat and stared and examined for a pretty long time, and it was a really good exercise. I looked for basic themes that were in each number and how it was modified by the suit, etc. I now have my own associations based on the numbers and these work so much better for me. Even when I am in complete agreement with the books, it became much clearer when I figured it out for myself. Good luck finding what works for you. :) Kes

Diana	21 Jun 2002
edited

HOLMES	23 Jun 2002
interesting posts i thought as i read them. while contemplating these posts and what i wrote in, as i layed there in the evenings in winnipeg. i was still mysterious to me. then after i got that shadowwork book of the tarot and the tarot reversals. and skimmed through it and then i was sitting there in the car as i couldn't lay down hehe deep in thought. then some thoughts hit my head like a hammer. i know why the fire is wands now :O) the creative spark. then i wa thinking to myself hmm but why ? and a voice pop into my head do we have to smack you over the head again (jking) but i got the impression wands is growing your soul cups to give your emotions to learn to love unconditonaly pentacles to master the physical and swords to master your mind. in the old days during the medevil days swords were reflected at us from out outer world which why we couldn't live up to the higher ideals of truth, and courage, and boldness, as it almost alwasy ended up in war as the dark aspcts of the swords like fear, hate, attachments of the swords came into the pictures. as the noble king who wanted to just looked after his people ended up in war trying to look over his lands as those who wanted the land for himsef tried to opress and conquer him. now in these recent times we are now reflected the swords into our innerworld not defeating the evil king, but instead in the end trying to defeat our ego, our shadow, our dark lower self as progress down the mental road. therefore by the time of the ten of swords we have become the highermind which the ego fears for it means giving up on illusions, and projections and shadowed beliefs. the wands repesent a spiritual path of light which is lighted by the fire as we pass the rites of passage. this is not the fool journey but one part of the fool journey. ace we recnozie the devine spark within. two we find a teacher to realzie the spark three we are teaching the spark four we are mastering the spark five we are in fighting the world as all the religions are figthing that their way is better, we are just trying to stay true to our devine spirit six of wands the people realize the master has stay true to his spark and therefore they are celebrating the innerlight seven of wands.now he has to try to hold his light against the social problems of the world trying to not fall into despair eight of wands. the master now sees the spiritual help around him such as the angels, guides, who share postive messages. nine of wands he has come a long way and now he is looking for his final tests which he must past to complete the enlightment cycle. ten of wands it is not a burden to be full with gifts, but with great light comes great loving responsbiltiy. the man has all the gifts to be a spiritual man and a social giving man. but then we have the negative reversal spiritual path ace of wands reversed. the man tries to be spiritual but it is delay within him. he is doing it to look good now for the soul purpose. he sees the truth but only half of it. two of wands reversed. it is not a mutal sharing for he is the dominanet guru. he leads through fear not wisdom. three of wands reversed. he has blocked the creative fires of his followers, saying only the path that i see is right. four of wands reversed he has a built a cult where the followers are living for the purpose of his half truth path. five of wands the followers are breaking free, he is losing spiritual control six of wands he is casted out of the order, and his teachings go with him. seven of wands he can't hold what light he had agianst the social problems of the world. eight of wands. he spurns the messages and the gifts of the creator, and his allies. i do not need anyone he says. nine of wands. he has built a fort lower spiritual truths trying to regain his power for to him spirituality is power ten of wands now he can no longer carry his spiritual truths that he has believed in... and will have to go back to the beginning for the universe never gives up on the fallen, or the failed and are willing to start over as many times as need to get the objective regained. this is true of the social path as well for it is they who are trying to make society grow, and in that path theythemselves are growing.

MeeWah	26 Jun 2002
Holmes: There are 2 schools of thought regarding Wands & Swords, so some decks approach Wands as Air & Swords as Fire instead of vice versa (such as The Nigel Jackson Tarot). The latter correspondences make sense to me. That is: Wands is the creative spark or that divine inspiration; inner motivation. Swords refer to the mental realm or the intellect; attitude; action; communications; legal matters; documents. 3-Swords describes mental anguish that results from acquired knowledge or experience. It is through that experience that growth occurs.

HOLMES	19 Feb 2003
that i made this thread eheh. besides the system i realized (not saying it is my own creation just that i took this and that and put it together in my major tarot realization thread eheh). i been looking at the minors from that tarot book reccomended the tarot and tree of life book, cannon reed book on the spheres (thanks cjtarot), and the rachael pollack 78 degrees book on the minors arcana to help me understand the minors. it can be soooo frustrating it seems that just as i learn something, a sign pops up hey look over here we are connected. sigh. so what i been doing is focusing on the minors by. 1. the spheres, one day (looking at a suit) 2. just the numerlogical values(looking at the basic numerology which forms the basis for the system) 3. astrolgical associations of 1 to ten The Sun: The Moon: Mercury: Venus: . Mars: Jupiter: Saturn: Uranus: Neptune: Pluto: 4. even looking at dividing up the 1 to 10 into signs ... (12\4=3 what ?) mutable, fix, and cardinal so take the astological signs of a suit like pentacles. mutable fixed cardinal mutable cardinal mutable fixed cardinal. yet that is only nine right ? where could possibly fit in the next sign ? .. the cusp, which would go in front of the suit first sing. so cusp, mutable fixed cardinal ,and so forth. (such a method would make it easy to divide it up into the 360 decans i don't understand yet it is here in the qabalistic tarot by robert wang, ) (i am slow to understand stuff it comes in bursts eheh) on thinking about the court cards it is clear they represent the elementals forces of the four worlds that are in us and without us. in the enochian magic for the enochain tarot the elemetns are devided up into fire/fire, fire/water, fire/earth fire/air, and then air/fire,, and such into you get the four elements divide up into 16 devisions, soon as i saw that i thought COURT CARDS, ( i haven't look passed that page yet as i am in the thinking mode) hey while i am still thinking about the elemental powers of the court cards ( i havne't looked into the astrolgical signs of the court cards yet ) what is the best book on elemetental dignities one can get ? the system of numerology can't be divided into court cards,, for where do they start ? 11 to 14? back to 1 to four ? i was quite surpised to see them dvided up into the kabbala at 2, kings, 3 queens, 6 knights and 9 pages. however i do like the logic of the tarot and tree of life book and the reversals of them . so 2 is pages, 3 is knights 6 is queen and 10 is kings. hmm pages wisdom, 3 knights understanding, queen is buety and king is kingdom? yet looking at the book of the kabala pages and knights fire, queen is water , knight is earth, there is no air court card, now why is that ? edited to add. nope i was wrong, the court cards for the enochian tarot went lord of fire, angels of fire, lesser angels of fire,, and so forth. but i am convinced the four divisions of the elemental worlds is the key for me to understand the court cards in depth, the lord of fire.. wouldn't it make more sense for the king of each world to be the fire/fire, water/water, earth/earth/, and air/air ? what would the knight be then, and the queen and the page. if air is complentay to the fire,, and the earth to the water,, knights would be air/fire, earth/water, water/earth, fire air/ and queens would be water/fire, fire water/, air/earth, earth/air? and pages would be earth/fire, air/water, fire/earth/, fire/air. thusly, wands, pages, earth/fire, knight air/fire, queen water/fire, king fire/fire cups pages air/water, knight earth/air, queen fire/water, king water/water pentencles, pages, fire/earth, knights water/earth, queen air/earth/ king earth/earth. swords, pages, water/air, knights fire/air, queens, earth/air, kings fire/fire. ? or is the pages water, knights fire, queen, earth, king air? any ideas ???

Macavity	19 Feb 2003
I seem to spend a lot of time looking for links between minors, courts & trumps. An (oft cited?) article at: http://www.llewellynjournal.com/article/387 correctly (imo!) describes the correspondances between the courts and 2, 3, 6, & 10 minors (giving suits) and as implied by Book of Thoth. The above author describes this as "... another method of obtaining an alternate set of meanings for the Court Cards". I suppose the thing to note is the use of the word alternate, rather than equivalent? He seems to be looking for a "divinatory" meaning, rather than the (somewhat feeble?) way of seeing the courts as "representing people". Indeed fair enough - And a rather neat idea :) I've also been looking for a (any?) link between the minors and majors using astrological assignments. The (Thoth) minors clearly have rather well defined astrological attributes in the GD scheme e.g. Two of Wands: Mars in Aries and Kaballistic association with Chockmah (as all other twos). The Trump with the assignment to Aries is usually the Emperor etc. And this could be extended... But is there any obvious rime or reason to that system either - who knows? I see a potential problems in the "different astrologies" of the minors and trumps! I've forgotten how I came to that assertion! But I can't imagine our friend Mr. Crowley being likely to comment on potential problems either? }) In the Kabalah both courts and minors can at least reside on Sepira and perhaps that implies some connection. The trumps reside on the paths which might mean there is a connection to sephira at either end and the associated minors - Or maybe none at all? Perhaps if I knew more about astrology and the Kaballah? But the more pragmatic side of me suspects much of this might be wild goose chase - interesting though it perhaps is... :D Macavity

HOLMES	19 Feb 2003
quote : But the more pragmatic side of me suspects much of this might be wild goose chase - interesting though it perhaps is... quote: macavity in the words of ray of ghostbusters two , "yeah but what a ride" that is the excitement as "the chase is on" Holmes was said to exclaim.(for a while i was bored and i was gathering energy before i approach the court cards ) aye perhaps i should look into astrological assocations of the court cards before i can go further ( trying to decide my own mind before the forthcoming tarot court by mary k greer comes out near christmas if it is )

Dark Inquisitor	19 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Lee I think it's important, Holmes, to keep in mind that when A.E. Waite and Pamela Smith created their deck, which was the first to have pictures for the Minors, -- Lee [/b] The 15th century Sola Busca was the first with illustrated minors. Tarotphelia

HOLMES	21 Feb 2003
http://www.kenaz.com/notes/tarot_read_court.htm#Court%20Cards%20–%20Their%20Elements,%20Type%20of%20People,%20and%20Special%20Meanings this link here has a little info which help me to understand ,, basically it says kings are air, knights are fire, queen water, and pages earth. ( perhaps that is back up by the old golden dawn qabbalah pages being on the 10 in the physical realm.?) so just to clairify it.. we now have the correct basis ( according to this link eheh) of the 16 possiblities. swords air/earth pages, air/fire, knights, queens air/water, king air/air. wands. fire/earth pages, fire/fire,knights, fire/water queen, fire/air king cups water/earth,pages, water/fire knights , water/water, queen, water/fire king. pentacle earth/earth pages, earth/fire knights , earth /water,queen, earth/air kings. what does it mean ? beaats me lol yet two patterns emerge.. page of pentacles, earth/earth knight of wands fire/fire, queen of cups, water/water king of swords, swords/swords, at the extrme, would this be the extreme path ? or the ideal path ? would this this be the right path or left path of the elementls.. example is earth/earth deserving to be under the serve left side of the path of life?. the child of earth becomes the young man of fire, becomes the woman of water, and the man of mind ? the psychial child who is at one with his surrounds, shall develop a spiritual nature of great spiritual importance, becoming at one with recieving nature of emotions, and becoming an mental master of his own mind. pages of swords, air/earth, knight of cups water/fire queen of wands fire/water king of pentacles, , earth/air, is this the seve path ? due to the direct oppositon of the elements ? the child of mind shall be in oppostion of his surroundings, and the young man emotions in conflict with his spirituality, and his recieving spiritual self be in conflict with his female side of emotions, and his male self pyshical self shall be in opposition of his mind. a child who is closed off from his surroundings, and his physical self, such a child retreated into his mind. then as a young man in his developing prime, when it comes time to express his emotins, doesn't agree with his spark. a clear cut of inuition vs heart. which do i follow. and his female self when the spirit talks to him,, his emotional world disagrees. and as his ultimage male self is in direct oppositon to the child of mind he once was. the other combinations in the middle, ,, they must be neutral i figure as the middle piller is bigger,, ( yeah i know my logic is flawed.) on the tree of life. pages of cups, earth/water knighgts of swords, air/fire queen fo pentacles, water/earth king of wands, fire/air see here you have complimentary elements without the severity of the same signs, the physical child who is attuned to his emotions, who as a young man his mind is attuned to his spirituality, and as female self is recpetive to the earth that is around him/her, and his male self is spiritualy attuned to his mind,, pages of wands earth/fire knights of pentacles fire/earth queen of swords, water/air king of cups, air/water and here you have the complimentary opposals without being in direct oppostion. the physical child learning to understand his spiritual needs, at an early age, becoming the spiritual young man who is affect his world, and as his female self is receptive in emotions to the mental attitubtes of the world. and as the male self his mind, is receptive to his emotions. these are the four paths i have work out according to the four sides of the world divded up into the four stages making 16 sides the whole, or the sixteen court cards. now to go back up and add some stuff,which i just did. eheh. yet more must be added, ,, these are not the four stage of a suit,,i notice that too must be addressed, swords, page of swords, a physical person who is attuned to his mind as well, knight of swords, who becomes a spiritual person who is attuned to his mind. queen of swords, who has an female recptive side of emotionals power as it pertains to the mind. kind of swords, who becomes the mental poweress to master his domain. of the mental world. wands. page of wands. a physical strong child who is attuned to his spiritual self, knights of wands. a young man who is spiritually attuned to his spiritual self, ( jesus anyone ?_ queen of wands. a female self who is direct opposition to his spiritual messages, ( my lord is this right, ? does it have to be this way my heart cries) king of wands. a male self who mental self is in direct compliment of his spiritual self. yes i accept what i must do in this spiritual world of action, so be it. cups, page of cups, a physical child who is attuned to his emotional self, a senstive. knight of cups, a young person who is spiritualy in direct oppostion of his emotional self , i must follow this way,, it is the way of the spirit. queen of cups. a female self who is emotioanlly master of their emotions, king of cups, a male mental self who is in moderatly oppostion of his emtional self, has learned to harmonzie them. pentacles, page of pentacles, a child of physical powers in strong attunement of his phsical world knight of pentacles. spiritualy as a young man is moderatly in oppostion to what he must pyshically do,, yet he has that deep spiritualy to get him or her through it, spiritualy attuned to nature. queen of pentacle.s a female self who is emotioanly attuned to her surroundings and can talk to the devas. king of pentacles, a male self who is mentally in direct opposion of the physical world, there he will do what he must physically in order to appease his mind. of course this is all written in a flow of thouht, ( not channeled, ) but as my mind traveled , just an energy flow. now tomorrow,, in accordance to the tarot and tree of life ,and the changing of pentacles with air, and king with physicallity... there will be a new post with this differnt view of the court cards, or the next day ,, depending on my lack of energy .

HOLMES	20 May 2003
i now know that correctly in gd.. kings are fire, knights are air, queens are water, and pages are earth. we can fix up the mistakes i made with , swords, earth/air, water/air, air/air, fire/air. cups earth/water, water/water, air/water, fire/water, wands, earth/fire, water/fire, air/fire, fire/fire, earth earth/earth, water/earth, air/earth, fire/earth. severity , earth/earth water/water, air/air, fire/fire, earth/air, water, fire, air/ earth, fire/water, complimentary earth/ water, water/earth air/fire, fire/earth not so serverity but more neutral earth/fire, water/air, air/water, fire/earth. what does that mean ? beats me agian but if i can think.. the severe natures , in the sense they are the personfication of the element page of pentacles, is the physical reative child in the physical world trying to understand everything on a physical level. the queen of cups , is an emotional recieving person in an emotioanal outgoing world who is trying to decipher what she recieves from the word and then interpates it how she can relate. knight of swords. the mental forceful person in a word of mental force , they meet force with force, everything with strategy, and plan out everything logically . king of wands. the spiritual man of action acting in a world of action. the primodal force behind change i would say. these men have to change the actions of others i feel. severe clashes, of personal self vs the world. page of swords. a physical reactive person in the mental world of force. such a person would be recptive to the teachings of others, and destroyed by the manipulations of bad teachers, queen of wands, a receptive woman of emotions in a strong world of spiritual fire. the emotions are the way they deal with the spirtual world and so they come their heart and often say that doens't feel right should the fire be black the woman will follow but at the expense of her soul. knight of pentacles, a strong person of force , in a world of recieving physical forces, they can bend the world to their means, yet are frustrated when they can't change the earth itself for the trees will still grow in their own way , and the wind still blows north . king of cups. a strong man with a strong mind dealing in an emotional world. his strong mind rules his emotions, but are broken when the emtoions over rules him, and he realizes family means more then his dominion. complimentary elements, page of cups, a recieving young person in the emotional world they understand much for they recieve all the emotions that are going around on the physical world and it becomes like a damper, queen of pentacles. an emotioanl receptive woman to physicality of the elements. she through her emotions allow her world to grow, she understands the elements well, and this connetion allows her to be matriach of her family i feel. king of swords. a spirtually active man in the mental world. repent repent (LOL) just joking, but he is content on trying to change people mental outlook on the life of others by telling to focus on going upward and see the majestic of the universe. the more neutral (to me anways ) page of wands. earth child of spirits, here we have a person who see the physicality of the spiritual worlds, sees much of angels. queen of swords, emotions in conflict with the mental ? or is it harmonized ? since it is more netural i would say harmonized, here is a person who has control of her emotions like a vulcan but is able to harness them. king of pentacles, a fire man in physical world his spiritual connection to the world makes him a man of shamantic proportions . he sees the signs of earth, birds, winds, but i don't know the elements so one could probaly look closer and get a whole page of elemental meanings heeh

Dark Inquisitor	20 May 2003
Quote: Originally posted by HOLMES then some thoughts hit my head like a hammer. i know why the fire is wands now :O) the creative spark. then i wa thinking to myself hmm but why ? and a voice pop into my head do we have to smack you over the head again (jking) but i got the impression wands is growing your soul cups to give your emotions to learn to love unconditonaly pentacles to master the physical and swords to master your mind. On a dimly related "but why?" , I was reading today in the I Ching of the Goddess by Barbara Walker, that the reason 4 elements are so important throughout the various cultures of the world is because they are the 4 ways of disposing of a dead body. Earth burial, sky burial, burial at sea , & cremation. Tarotphelia

The minor arcanna help me to understand. thread was originally posted on 19 Jun 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.