Newbie questions: Celtic Cross

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 15 Jun 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Dystopian	15 Jun 2002
Hi, I'm still new to tarot (only started learning for about a week) and have a few questions. I've read some tutorials and I have a basic understanding of it. Questions: 1. In the Celtic Cross spread each spot can represent many different keywords, which definition should I use? For example: Position 9: Guidance Key Factor Hopes and Fears Overlooked Factor (taken from learntarot.com) Today, I drew a III of Swords on position 9 when I asked about a love relationship. It could relate to any of the above key words and I'm not sure which one to use. 2. How can I interpret cards that have little relation to the question. (eg. getting cards about money when you ask about a relationship) 3. Is there a difference between reading upright cards only and reading both upright and reverse cards? Please help.

aeonx	15 Jun 2002
Merry Meet Dystopian and welcome to the forum! :) I see this is the first post of yours, and if you want, you can go to the 'New Members'-forum and introduce yourself. ;) (If you feel like it.) As being fairly new to tarot myself, I would not recommend that you begin with the CC right away. Others may think this is ok, but I found it much easier to wait. Actually, I still haven't begun using the CC. :P I'm sure others can explain the CC to you anyway. I would start out doing 3- and 5-card spreads, and a daily draw to help you get the meaning of the cards faster. Which deck are you using? A tarot journal is a very good idéa. Here you write all your daily spreads and other spreads in general. To begin with, you could go through the entire deck and write your feelings for each card. Use solely your intuition, you could look up the meanings afterwards. This helps you come in contact with the cards and your intuition, and may be helpful notes later. You can also go back at the end of the month and note which cards that came up several times. Then, browse these forums, it's a giant source of information, which is very helpful. Notice that you should set the 'Showing Threads...' to the beginning instead of just the last 30 days. I can provide a short list of links to great posts on i.e. spreads, but unfortunately I have to run. I will try to get it to you during the weekend though! :) I wish you good luck on your newly begun journey, and I'm looking forward to getting to know you. If you have any questions, just select the appropriate forum and ask us. We're happy to help out! :D Blessings, ~aeonx~

Pollux	15 Jun 2002
Well, about your question... (Aeonx stole my role of GO-TO-THE-NEW-MEMBERS-SECTION-YELLER *lol*) Position 9 to me is more HOPES & FEARS, WILD CARD - UNEXPECTED FACTOR - LESSON TO LEARN. In the case of the 3 of Swords it is apparent that the fear mentioned is that of a sorrow, if related to relationships of a betrayal... In Truth I don't think you should stick to keys. Or, just get the one that makes more sense to you, also on account of what the other cards indicate, or of the type of question. Like I said for the 3 of Swords, for example: in this case it is the fear of a betrayal. But it might also mean that thye lesson to learn is that of "Sorrow for Wisdom" - something like this was in Pollack's 78DW I think... To learn Discernment and Wisdom form Sorrow... Actually, I don't think this is an easy task after all, at least not for a starter... Just trust yourself, and practice! :) Your friends might be excellent Guinea Pigs. As for the CC there are thousand of variations... And you might aldo find some other spread around that might suit you better while you get more in contact with the cards, and learn the meanings and so on... As for question #2 there should be a post somewhere, from Tarotbear, I'll try to find it... And #3 is just up to you: there is a difference. But I think that for the time being you'd better not worry about reversed cards... Yet, again, it is up to your feeling. :) GOOD LUCK!!! :)

Starfish	15 Jun 2002
Welcome, Dystopian - I am fairly new to Tarot (and this forum) myself. You will learn a wealth of information here!!! I also agree with Aeonx and don't really suggest the Celtic Cross for a beginner. I started out with 3 and 5 card spreads and they were much better for me learning wise. I also suggest letting your instincts help you read those cards. What deck are you using? As for cards sometimes not relating to a question, you'd be surprised ;) A card that might be read as incoming wealth could mean a wealth of ideas/incoming love/inner peace, whatever the posed question may have been. The books/keywords give us starting places and help along the way, but aren't "set in stone". BTW, Aeonx and Pollux are 2 of many wonderful, helpful people you'll find on these boards and I wasn't at all suprised to see that they had responded to your post. Love & Light - :TQS Starfish

Scorpion	15 Jun 2002
Hi, Dystopian! Like you, I found the Celtic Cross before I found this site and I decided to battle it out! Essentially, I took the meanings that made sense to me and that I felt fitted together and found something that worked. I ended up with a 13 card version which I've set out below in case you can take anything from it - if not, just ignore it! It starts with three cards in the centre and ends with three cards as I use two clarifying cards at the end to get a better picture. I'm probably amongst the minority that finds the more cards I have the clearer things become! It is as follows:- ............................................12.......11.........13 .................6.....................................10 5,,,,,,,,,1....2...3........7........................9 .................4.......................................8 1. Heart of the Matter (ie what the problem really is) 2. Why is it important? 3. What's helping (a card that strikes you as positive) or hindering (if it feels negative)? 4. What is hiding under all this (perhaps an aspect of themselves that the client can't put into words)? 5. Resolved issues (things the client has experienced and handled, but which have probably surfaced in the recent past - say, the past 3 months). 6. What is the Karmic Lesson in this? I believe we are here to learn and we are not always aware of just what it is we're meant to be learning. Could be the attitude that would be beneficial to the client in the circumstances. 7. Unresolved issues (things the client does not handle well and which therefore pop up time and time again - I feel confident enough to predict that this aspect is going to pop up in the next 3 months or so, because life's like that! Therefore can be thought of as near future). 8. How the client sees themselves. 9. How others see the client/the face they present to the world (often vastly different from 8!). 10. Hopes and Fears (similar to the card at position 3, if it feels positive explore it as a hope - if you think it's presenting its negative face, read it as a fear). 11. Advice/Outcome. 12. Result of 11 if you follow one path it suggests. 13. Result of 11 if you take another route. I tend to follow the thinking that all the cards have both positive and negative aspects and you should go with whichever one feels right. For instance, I imagine you would think of the Ace of Cups as a positive card. However, in one reading a client chose the Goddess deck and the image just struck me as gorging itself on the water, like a starving or addicted person. It turned out to be the right interpretation. You will see people mention that a card "presents reversed" - what they're saying is that although it's upright, the feeling is of reversed or blocked energy. Can't see that anybody has mentioned the excellent book "Tarot Reversals" by Mary Greer yet - she makes the point that it's possible that reversals are there just to emphasise the point the card wants to make- after all, if you do a series of readings it's possible for a previous client to have reversed the card. As for drawing cards about money when you're asking about a relationship, Pentacles don't just mean money to me - I see them as being about whatever it is that affects your security, be that emotional, financial, intellectual or physical. The other suits represent the concepts of emotions, mind and energy, but Pentacles grounds them all into reality. Hope this helps!

Kaz	15 Jun 2002
louiQ, i have a great dislike of the CC spread, but i think i will try your version, this one might actually work. my printer just decided to die.......sigh, no printing anymore kaz

Starfish	15 Jun 2002
LouiQ - Thanks for posting your variation of the Celtic Cross - I really like it. I'm going to try it this afternoon!! (Printing it off as I type this) :TQS Starfish

Keslynn	15 Jun 2002
I do everything backwards so I learned with the Celtic Cross. It's actually worked out quite fine for me. The cards will get their meaning across with or without some reader fumbling. I also find that the Celtic Cross works better for me because there are more surrounding cards to help me hone meanings and trigger my intuition. In fact, I have a lot of trouble just doing 3 or 5 card spreads! I like having all that CC information. But do what feels most comfortable for you. You'll glean more if you're feeling secure with the spread you're using. As for reversals, once again, my Leo energy got me into the deep end. ;) I started out with reversals almost immediately. At first, I was getting the meanings almost exclusively from the books I had, and I wasn't feeling so comfortable with my abilities in that area. Then I read The Complete Book of Tarot Reversals by Mary Greer. Excellent book which gave me a new understanding of reversals. Now I feel fairly comfortable with them though I'm still, as ever, working on it. Even if you decide not to use reversals at all (as some people do) you can get something from this book. Check it out when you feel prepared to tackle reversals. :) Kes

Lee	15 Jun 2002
Hi, Dystopian, welcome! Everyone's given great answers. I'm probably not adding anything new here, but I just thought I would give it a go: 1. I like Joan Bunning (Learning the Tarot) very much, but I think that having lots of different meanings for each position of a spread is a bit much for a beginner (or for anyone, for that matter). I think it's better to start out with one basic meaning for each position. You might choose one for each position from the options that Bunning gives, or you might try LouiQ's (which looks very good, I've printed it out and will try it), or any others in any books you see which appeal to you. 2. I remember when I first started studying the Tarot that I was quite disappointed when I realized that reading the cards is not a straightforward process. After you do it for a while, you start to realize that there's a lot of ambiguity in what the cards are saying. But the fact is, it's this very ambiguity which makes reading the cards a valuable experience. When faced with ambiguity, our minds start going beyond and beneath the straightforward and the obvious, and that's where intuition and insight and creativity start to come into play. So when you have a card and a spread position that don't seem to make sense together (which is usually the case for the majority of cards, at least for me), you need to let your mind play around with the concepts, and let your eyes play over the images on the cards. Maybe you'll see a detail on a card that will make everything pull together into something which makes sense. The 2 of Pentacles may mean juggling finances, but perhaps you'll focus on the stormy sea behind the juggler, and the card will then mean a difficult situation. If it turns up in another reading, it may mean something else in that reading. The important thing to know is there are no right or wrong answers, no true or false interpretations. Everything you read in books (or on this site) should only be taken as suggestions. In the end it's just you and the cards, and if you draw some insight from them, then you've done something right, no matter which meanings you use. 3. I agree with those who have said that you don't need to worry about reversed cards for now. There are many, many readers who never use them. I would recommend learning and getting familiar with the cards first, and then experimenting with reversed cards to see if you like using them or not. Sorry to be so long winded! -- Lee

Dystopian	15 Jun 2002
I'll like to thank everyone who replied. I'll take some time to study your replies. I'm using the Vertigo Tarot (2nd edition). I choose it because I liked its dark atmosphere.

wavebreaker	16 Jun 2002
Hi Dystopian, I had a lot of trouble with the Celtic Cross myself when I just started, because I too thought it was very complicated with all the different meanings for the different positions, and with all the different card meanings... So I stuck to smaller spreads for a while, just 3 to 5-card spreads. I also drew daily cards and all of this helped me to get more familiar with the cards themselves. Recently, I tried another Celtic Cross and I this time I found interpreting the spread fairly easy, it felt like I immediately understood every card/position as I put it down. I think this is because I'm a lot more comfortable with the card meanings now. So this "step-by-step" method really worked for me. By the way: I don't use reversals just yet, that's also part of my "step-by-step" method: I want to get comfortable with the upright meanings of the cards before I start doing reversals.

Marion	16 Jun 2002
Hi Dystopian, I too fall into the group that prefers fewer cards. Usually seven or less. I find large spreads are like too many people at a party talking at once! I agree with the earlier posters who said that just because money cards fall into relationship spreads they are wrong or inappropriate. Sometimes money plays a big part in a relationship. Sometimes the card is referring to the 'earthy' aspects, not just money. The suits are not that restrictive. I just started reversals after many years of reading. Mostly because of the book Tarot Reversals, but also from some comments on the board about how reversals add depth to a reading. Now that I am using them I would have to agree. But start out with uprights... there is enough to learn there. And welcome!!

aeonx	17 Jun 2002
Starfish: Thank you for that nice comment! :) ~aeonx~

The Newbie questions: Celtic Cross thread was originally posted on 15 Jun 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.