people with your stuff

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Jul 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

napaea	03 Jul 2002
Recently I read a book on tarot, and the author, I believe it was Janina Renee, said she had a tendency to draw clients to her that had similar issues. Like, say she's dealing with a friend who is alcoholic - all of a sudden tons of clients come to her with questions about their lover who has alcohol problems. Then she has a period of financial problems - tons of her clients start seeing her for financial guidance. If I remember right, she was saying it just made sense; she has the desire to help others heal and gain information, and people who can be helped by her (i/e: from her life experiences) are drawn to her. Does this happen to you guys? I frequently find that when I am doing a reading for someone, so many of the cards relate to where I am that I have to check to make sure the reading isn't for me. Actually, today I had to do a second reading for this reason, to determine who the first reading was really for. I think it's cool that you can draw people to you that you can relate to, but how do you know for sure that you aren't blocking a good reading for them with your energy? Usually my energy is so strong, readers are unable to give readings to those around me until they do me first!! Are there things I can do to help ensure that I know I am reading for the right person?

Original Destiny	03 Jul 2002
:TFOOL... this I find is true...working as a counsellor, I did a course on berievement, and the next few clients all had this issue..I seem to get clients that reflect where I am at...it might be because you become really open to their vibes.,..symbyosis..:TMAGE

lunalafey	03 Jul 2002
perhaps this is the Universe/higher power preparing those who are to help by giving them the experience first... She was SET UP!!!!call the cosmic police!!!

destinyawaitsme	03 Jul 2002
Wow...last summer I was going through a rough time. i would often get people who had the same problems I had...or at least similar problems. Sometimes when I read I'm talking, but what's coming out of my mouth isn't me. Do you know what I am talking about. I have done readings for people on the internet and I will jsut constantly type and type. And I will go back and read it and think, "hey, that's really good advice." Sometimes I read it and wonder where it came from. I never reallly gave it too much thought until now. I guess it is the Universe's way of giving guidance...follow your own!

Jimilyn	04 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by lunalafey perhaps this is the Universe/higher power preparing those who are to help by giving them the experience first... She was SET UP!!!!call the cosmic police!!! Cosmic police!!! :D Good one, lunalafey! :D However, you most definitely have a good point. Things happen for a reason. I don't believe that I cross paths with others by chance or accident. Therefore, it *is* a set up. ;) I just love the way you phrased that! :D Jimilyn

tigerlily	04 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by destinyawaitsme Wow...last summer I was going through a rough time. i would often get people who had the same problems I had...or at least similar problems. Sometimes when I read I'm talking, but what's coming out of my mouth isn't me. Do you know what I am talking about. I have done readings for people on the internet and I will jsut constantly type and type. And I will go back and read it and think, "hey, that's really good advice." Sometimes I read it and wonder where it came from. I never reallly gave it too much thought until now. I guess it is the Universe's way of giving guidance...follow your own! I know exactly what you're talking about! It's what happens to me when I give readings via internet - I am totally lost what to say about the spread until my fingers touch the keyboard. After that it just flows - I don't know where it comes from. I even do readings for myself that way; I *have* to write them down, otherwise I don't get any information. It's a bit like automatic writing, or channeling, I guess - I write things I *can't* know and get a "wow, dead on!" response. I often wondered if I could ever do a reading in person, since I'm so specialized in writing... speaking is a whole different channel.

wetsheep1	04 Jul 2002
Someone told me once upon a time that I couldn't give away what I didn't have. I get the same thing; it seems as if whenever I'm facing a particular issue, people experiencing the same thing flock to my doorstep. In a way, it's intimidating, because I feel like man, I don't have any answers, I'm in the same boat! But then again, sometimes I find that "hidden resource;" if I read for someone else, the advice I end up giving -- as stated before, those words aren't mine, but if I take the time to look at the reading in hindsight it's dang good advice and I'd do well to heed my own words ;) In my experience, it's the way of deity. Be aware what you're asking for because you'll always get it -- just not always in the manner in which you expect it! Great topic :) Thanks for bringing it up! :) -- k

truthsayer	06 Jul 2002
it seems like i draw ppl going thru similar things, too. it's easier for me to be more objective w/ their readings and to come up w/ insights that i can't give myself. tarot seems to force me to gorw and expand who i am as a person and a reader. i have decks i just haven't been able to get up the nerve to do a first reading for. i needed to come up w/ a birthday present for a friend. some of these decks called me to use them in her reading which i taped. i plan to do this more b/c i can turn off my inner critic if i tape the reading. this most recent example isn't directly related to tarot but the idea works. i've been working on my creative writing and feeling insecure about how much i know. then a friend just happens to pop up w/ a manuscript she needs help editing and turning into a book. i simply can't stop being amazed at myself for the words of wisdom flowing out of my mouth to her. i've decided i'm ready to write whatever i want to. if i don't it's b/c i'm my own worst enemy. i obviously have the knowledge. i just fear using what i know. i write volumes at aeclectic but when i try to do what i consider "creative writing" i freeze up. i think the message the universe is giving me is "JUST DO IT!!!!!!" i've also been trying to do some paintings for an arts contest in january. i just happen to decide to make some sponge painted tarot boxes for my recent deck acquisitions. VOILA!! tarot has given me my entry!

wetsheep1	07 Jul 2002
Truthsayer, excellent ideas!! And how true. I like the idea of taping the reading; I do a number of readings online and it helps to see it in writing as it leads me to explore things a little more carefully sometimes. But taping one is a super, super idea and I look forward to trying it! Thank you!! :) Blessings, --k

silvereye	07 Jul 2002
Often when I do readings, I can write a lot but there's nothing much I can say. I have to note them down or else I'll forget everything!

jade	07 Jul 2002
i totally find this happens to me. or many of my clients all seem to be having the same difficulties/lessons at the same time :D in light, jade

the hermit	08 Jul 2002
YES, I feel the same way (as do the other Tarot practitioners that I know). Chaotic life? Trouble on the love front? Money problems? Illness? Mother-in-law problems? It never seems to fail. If it hasn’t happened yet, as soon as I give someone a reading who’s got a ‘problem’, guess what crops up in MY little piece of the universe? Why doesn’t someone show up at my door who’s just won the lottery? Welcome to the wonderful world of cosmic karma. There are several very good points in this thread. You can’t give what you don’t have to give. The best counselors I’ve ever visited understood my problems because of their own experience. As a Vietnam vet, I didn’t really get help with my issues until I found other vets (trained and untrained in counseling) to talk to. The best readers I’ve know have a world of experience and a TON of empathy. I have a young friend who’s life has been JUST a little tougher than I think she deserves. But she hangs in there and though she’s half my age, and has only been using the Tarot for 3 years, I believe she’s the best reader I know. GREAT empathy. I would like to think that my own extensive world experiences make me a better reader. On another subject within this thread that I think is VERY important: ALWAYS record, in some manner, your readings. Audio tapes, video tapes, journals, whatever. It helps you TELL the story better. It helps you remember the spread and what you said at that time and gives you reference information for re-visiting the spread at a later date. I prefer audio tapes myself and I have a dual tape deck with a high speed duplication feature that allows me to tape the reading and then make a duplicate to keep myself. Most people appreciate the tape that gives them a tangible artifact from the reading and it eliminates (most of the time) any misunderstanding concerning the interpretations you gave. None of that “but I’m sure you said…” stuff. I take my tapes after a reading, listen to them and enter the information in my electronic journal (I’m becoming WAY to dependent of my little Macintosh computer). This gives me a chance to review what I said, and allows me to look at possible alternate meanings. I record these as notes too, along with the original interpretations I gave in the reading. When I do personal readings, I just record them straight into my computer journal and then review them at the end of each week. This allows me to add notes and insights as time progresses. It’s also fun to see what ‘worked’ and what didn’t.

napaea	09 Jul 2002
Hermit! Thanks so much for the ideas and thoughts. I will definately try out the make a tape, give a tape thing. I'd been wanting to tape for the client, but hadn't thought of keeping one for me! I agree about your friend; those who go through a lot of pooh know how to smell the roses better than anyone!

the hermit	09 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by napaea Hermit! Thanks so much for the ideas and thoughts. I will definately try out the make a tape, give a tape thing. I'd been wanting to tape for the client, but hadn't thought of keeping one for me! I agree about your friend; those who go through a lot of pooh know how to smell the roses better than anyone! I don't do readings for other folks very often, but when I do, having a tape to give them works well. As I said, there's no misunderstandings about what was said by ALL parties to the reading. The questions are clear, the answers and interpretations are clear... or can be clarified by going over the taped session. As for my friend, I think she'll like your analogy. She's a country girl living on a farm in the Ozark Mountains. I'm going to forward it to her.

Alex	13 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by napaea I frequently find that when I am doing a reading for someone, so many of the cards relate to where I am that I have to check to make sure the reading isn't for me. Actually, today I had to do a second reading for this reason, to determine who the first reading was really for. Years ago, the man I was married to had serious problems with depression and suicide ideations. I was obviously distressed with that situation, and my readings reflected that very accurately. Death, The Tower, the suit of swords crossed my readings to the point I started wondering if those were the only cards in the Tarot. Conversely, the readings for my ex-husband, whether done by myself, friends or even using computer algorithms (like the one at www.facade.com) were not halfway as dramatic and often lended themselves to a happy outcome. That often surprised us, and amused us a bit; my ex- used to joke around that there was a curse on me or something of the sort. Yet after we separated I started getting more optimistic readings. His life crumbled down. He almost killed himself. And that left me wondering, is it possible I was absorbing all that dark energy/ that he was projecting that on me, and the cards were reflecting that? I am not sure how it relates to the original question but there is something about projecting some of our issues onto the querrent as well as being influenced by the states of mind of important people around us.

wetsheep1	13 Jul 2002
Actually, Alex, that makes perfect sense. If we accept the idea that the cards absorb our own vibrations, then it is logical that when we find ourselves in negative living situations, those vibrations also have an impact on us and will therefore be reflected in our readings. Let's face it -- he was your ex- for a reason, no? And surely, a part of it was because he was deeply troubled and that presented an untenable situation for you, eventually. Even though that trouble was not directly your own, it would have rubbed off on you; living with someone, it's hard for it not to affect you. So that strife, that discord, would have gotten under your own skin at some point and been reflected directly in your layouts. Make any sense, or am I a babbling little monkey? ;) -- Be well, -- k

Alex	13 Jul 2002
-- k You are right but you did not touch upon the issue that I find most interesting: his readings were pretty fine with no hint of what was going to happen to him, including the suicide he'd been planning for quite a while when he actually attempted it. In that situation, no one's readings (mine or his) should turn as if life was pretty normal. He was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder and one big aspect of it is that the person often projects what he/she finds unnaceptable in oneself onto others. He often would criticize and overemphazice in others (usually me) aspects he could not see in himself. That's the analogy I was trying to make: defense psychological mechanisms (denial and projection) actually working through the cards when they are a preponderant aspect of the moment, or of one's personality; and I was wondering, if that is a plausible hypothesis. Alex.

divinerguy	13 Jul 2002
I don't do readings for myself, and I haven't done so for some time. I've only had one reading done for me, and it was a very long time ago. I think this helps avoid any problems of my feelings influencing the readings I do for others. You can't get confused about your direction if you're driving down a one way street. Divinerguy

Lightlike	19 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by divinerguy I think this helps avoid any problems of my feelings influencing the readings I do for others. You can't get confused about your direction if you're driving down a one way street. Hmm, you've never been to Raliegh, North Carolina have you? Hehehe, downtown Raliegh is the one-way street capital of the world... But as far as my feelings influencing readings for others, I think it enhances my readings for others because the cards speak to me in things I'm very familiar and versed in--they translate the querent's situation into something that I've recently dealt with in my own life and my own readings and I can work with that. Just like John Edward says that the spirits show him signs and things that remind him of things he's familiar with and he translate it into what the audience needs to hear.

Laurel	19 Jul 2002
I completely believe in synchronicity, especially when it comes to the tarot. The cards seem to draw it in every aspect from readings to research. A friend of mind read my tarot a couple days ago (night before I joined this forum in fact) with The Alchemical Tarot by Robert Place. I thought about getting a copy of the deck afterwards but wanted some more information about some of the symbology. There is an autographed copy for sale on Ebay and on spur of a moment I wrote the seller to see if he might know. The seller wrote me back this morning- and it was Robert Place himself! He was able to answer my question and more, doing so in the nicest and most helpful manner possible. Laurel

wetsheep1	19 Jul 2002
Alex -- Interesting point. I don't know; my cards have always told me what I needed to hear, not necessarily what I wanted to hear -- even if I wasn't ready for it at the moment. It's only because I kept logs of my readings that I was able to figure out that the things that made least sense to me at the time were actually messages to my blind side. I wasn't able to see what the gist was until I had actually made the change hinted at or the incident (positive or negative) had occurred and I had changed as a result of it. Key to this, though, was that I was willing to change. I wanted to move in a positive direction. If one has no desire to affiliate oneself with one's "shadow," then I would imagine there would be a lot of stuff in the readings that could either be misinterpreted or simply "left for later" (the "huh?" stuff that sometimes comes up). Then again, if one's personality disorders are sufficiently strong enough to mask one's true Self, it could also mean that the cards would reflect that, too. In other words, if someone was, say, an untreated schizophrenic (which, of course, is a severe personality disorder that completely dissociates reality) then that person's readings may be full of wierd bits. Therefore, the cards would play to (or follow) that person's personality traits rather than lead in another direction. It would be interesting to find out, one way or another. Note that I, too, have a disorder of my own; I'm bipolar, but wasn't diagnosed until well after I'd had my cards for a while. I know for myself that only by looking back on my journals can I see that my interpretations while I was in the middle of a heavy depressive or manic cycle were off. But I guess that's what journalling's for, eh? ;) Just a thought from a babbling monkey.... ;) -- k

Alex	23 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by divinerguy I don't do readings for myself, and I haven't done so for some time. I've only had one reading done for me, and it was a very long time ago. Divinerguy I don't mean to criticize you, if it works for you that way, that's fine. However, the analogy that came to my mind when I read your post is that it is like a psychoanalist saying that he/she has not undergone analysis himself/herself and that he/she does not practice self-analysis as a means to protect his/her clients.

vision	24 Jul 2002
I think you don't have to have a doubt or worry wether you are giving a reading about yourself etc. Reasons being that we are all connected and we meet for a reason. And if you give the reading not from you mind but on a intuitive level, just let it flow. When you are reading, you can concentrate on their issues but later on you can meditate about it. It's like the Universe highlighting the issues and it's up to you and your client to take it and learn or leave it. You can give but receive at the same time! I think it's an excellent signal you picked up and it gives you an opporutnity to grow spiritually. With love vision

wetsheep1	24 Jul 2002
Great point, vision :) -- k

napaea	12 Aug 2002
Alex: another thing to consider is responsibility. You may have been the one to get all the swords and death cards because you were taking responsiblity for your ex's depression: how can i help him? why is he so depressed? what should i do to make life easier? the weight of your love/worry/concern may have shown up in the readings because you were so tied into his issue. he, on the other hand, was strictly thinking for himself. selfish, to a degree. he was focused on suicide or something of the sort as his way out, and may have felt very comfortable with that option, as evidenced by the fact you said he planned it for so long. if he was so comfortable with his decision, he may not have had internal struggles rise to the surface in the reading, becuase in his mind his problems were solved already. i don't know, it's just an idea

Alex	12 Aug 2002
He was very tough on the "it's your fault" and took as much responsibility as the situation called for, plus some of what he would not take responsibility for. I was also feeling guilty because I was rejecting him with my whole heart. You may have been the one to get all the swords and death cards because you were taking responsiblity for your ex's depression: how can i help him? why is he so depressed? what should i do to make life easier?>

Aerin	13 Aug 2002
I've just read this thread and I wanted to reply to napea's original post. napea, I know what you mean, it often seems that way. I've met a lot of coaches and counsellors and therapists who have the same experience. There is a need for caution though, and that is to reign back on any desire to assume that anyone else's issues are 'exactly' the same as yours and can be dealt with in 'exactly' the same way. Someone above said that perhaps it is because you are more open/ aware, and there can be a tendency to want to make their issues like yours when in fact they are experiencing things in quite a different way. On courses, I've seen some people leap in with 'oh, that's exactly like my problem what you should do is....' and narrowly escape being biffed. I've also had the experience of being on the receiving end of someone asking very leading questions and telling me I must be thinking/ felling X when I'm not. It's annoying. I end up thinking 'that's YOUR stuff, not MY stuff, just listen to me will you and shut up about yourself'. Sometimes it can be useful to share experiences when invited, it is never useful to attempt to project your experience on another person. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that anyone here would do that either intentionally or unintentionally - just that I have seen this happen, and it is a useful thing to be aware of. For me, I think I am more able to help clients when I notice myself noticing that my client's issues have parallels with my own because I can then consciously put my stuff to one side. And in fact, I don't coach anyone if I have an agenda which might overlap or interfere with theirs (in the sense that I could be affected by what they decide to do and therefore have a preference for them) - I only read Tarot for myself but I would probably apply the same principle if I read for someone else. It's a personal thing, I would worry that I might attempt to impose my views on someone closely connected to me even without realising I was doing it. Aerin

The people with your stuff thread was originally posted on 03 Jul 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.