Celtic Cross and card order

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 07 Aug 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Dystopian	07 Aug 2002
It seems that the card order of the Celtic Cross have many different versions. Which one do you use? a .........5........ ...4...12...6.. .........3........ b .........3........ ...6...12...5.. .........4........ c .........3........ ...5...12...6.. .........4........ d .........4........ ...5...12...6.. .........3........ Does it actually matter which one you use? Cause sometimes I think my readings make more sense if I rearrange the cards in the small cross.

kelli	07 Aug 2002
Hi Dystopian, I must say that I have pondered the same question as this more than once!! to add to the confusion it seemed everyone had a different way of laying out the celtic cross- this however i realised is the key - I really dont think it matters which way you lay them out, (ie: 3,4,5 & 6) I found that one particular way felt more natural than some others and thats what I have followed. Im not sure if this answers your question, but as long as you go with how you feel you will know what is right for you. Kelly

Jenny-Li	07 Aug 2002
This is a confusing question, at least before you've been at the Tarot-business (!) for long enough to figure out that it's all up to yourself what you're comfortable with, there's no "right" or "wrong". I had a heck of a time with it before I discovered that...! Anyway, I've stuck with alternative a): ***5*** 4*1/2*6 ***3*** When it comes to positions I go with 3 below/root, 4 behind/past, 5 above/crown and 6 before/near future, but I'm rather flexible with the limits of those position meanings, so "Near future" can end up being an advice on how to get out of an undesirable pattern, or it can show a path leading to card 10 Outcome, and the Root can be an unconscious past as well as a general background to why the problem actually IS a problem. Etc. The cards usually are pretty clear about what they have to say, so I try not to interfere with that, but just go with it! Jenny :)

catlin	07 Aug 2002
I use a) but don't ask why, I just do it.

Dark Inquisitor	07 Aug 2002
D is closest to what I use, except 5 & 6 are switched. They got switched because when I returned to tarot, I saw them that way in a book and I assumed it must be correct. The first time I did the spread, a little alarm went off that said - no that's not the way it goes ! Turns out that when I got another copy of my first 70's deck, I looked in the book that came with it, and I had correctly remembered the spread as printed inside after 25 years and very little experience! But by then , I was already doing it the other book way, so I stuck to that. Then, after a while I realized I had changed the order of the over & below cards without even realizing it! So now I stay with that. I think it only matters what you feel comfortable doing. As long as you have your positions in mind, the tarot will accomodate. Tarotphelia

Royal Cat	07 Aug 2002
I learned the Celtic Cross using method "a" - but the longer I use it, the more I find myself shifting toward "d" As it is now, I lay them out in the "a" pattern, but tend to read the cards in order of: 1 & 2, 3 & 5, 4 & 6 (closer to the set up of pattern 'd') Cat

Sorceress_Jade	07 Aug 2002
I also learned on 'a', but for the life of me could never remember the order, it just wasn't natural. System 'd' flows better and makes more sense to me, though I admit that I put card two on the left side of card one ~shrug~. Also the staff portion I go down instead of up, and in an arch. I've taken to calling it the sheild and scyth for the way it looks, and since i've adapted it so far from the original CC. I was so happy to find that I wasn't the only who who'd done this tho. When I first began to change the spread to suit me i was afraid I was doing something taboo. :)

wetsheep1	07 Aug 2002
I've always liked pattern (c), and I kind of stick with it. It just seems to make more sense that way, especially when I consider that card #3, the crown, is the best that can be expected out of the situation if I simply continue doing exactly what I'm doing and don't change anything. It relates so nicely to the 10th (outcome) card that it really makes my alternatives (or lack thereof) crystal-clear :) :) Pax -- k

zorya	07 Aug 2002
guess i just gotta be different, lol i use "e" .........6 ..5....1.2....3 .........4 3=furthest past/behind you 4=recent past/below you 5=near future/just ahead 6=further future/crowning or above you.

Kyrielle	08 Aug 2002
This is my other problem with the Celtic Cross, other than the fact that there may be more than one possible meaning for each position (which I posted on a couple days ago). I learned D first, then switched to A because that's what most LWBs say. But yesterday I laid out an A and immediately noticed that if I would change it to a D, it would feel more appropriate. I don't think anyone's mentioned the Turning Wheel activity in Tarot for Your Self, where you rotate the four cards through each position and consider the impact of each variation upon the situation at hand. You can get some interesting insights by using this. -- Kyrielle

NocturneSanguis	10 Aug 2002
As I always say, take the time to check the threads before creating one, you might have an answer already. And here I am. It was helpful for me to read this thread, thankyou all for sharing your knowledge. My particular question is this. I am very new to Tarot, and through this forum found a link to another site which contains lessons and exercises. The exercises concerning the CC spread show it in a certain way, however my book relating specifically to my deck (Tarot of the Witches) has an alternative spread. Should I listen to the book as it's for my deck only, or is a little experimentation worthwhile? This is a dumb question I think, I'm sure you will say 'Experiment, you fool!!', but questions are for learning. Thankyou for any advice you may offer me.

Keslynn	10 Aug 2002
Hi Nocturne! I think what would probably be the best way is for you to try all the different options you've seen. Keep track of how you've done it in your tarot journal and one method will probably emerge as a favorite for you. If you don't keep a tarot journal, you really probably should start one. I've found it to be a very valuable tool for me. It's always best to experiment until you find what works best for you. The books can help you find new methods of shuffling, layong out spreads, etc but the only real way to find out what works is to try it. :TQS Kes

NocturneSanguis	10 Aug 2002
Thankyou Keslynn!! I'm quite excited/nervous/embarrassed about my first reading, and seeing several spread techniques for the same spread, as I saw it, made me apprehensive. I'll do whatever happens, and no matter what, I'll still love Smashing Pumpkins lol. I'll update you, unless you're not interested, and then I just won't. But I'll carry on trying whatever happens, beause I almost instantly felt an affinity with my cards, thankyou for all your guidance!!

Supletion	10 Aug 2002
i use the same as sorya's :) ***6*** 5*1/2*3 ***4*** also, there are several versions of the positions... i've read in learntarot.com that their way i 3-unconscious, 4-past, 5-conscious, and 6-future, and i've also seen this version here on the board, but im interpretating it as 3-far past, 4-close past, 5-immediate future, 6-potential future (as i've orginally learnt).

Mlle Lenormand	11 Aug 2002
After much trial and error, I find that a) works for me. I think the most important thing is to feel comfortable with the positions and stick with what feels best. After all, its you giving the reading, and it's your skills/intuition etc that give it meaning. After playing around with different spreads for months, I tend to make up my mind just before I place the cards, because I feel guided and I trust that.

NocturneSanguis	11 Aug 2002
I just did my first reading, and I used this ***3*** 6*1/2*4 ***5*** Does anyone else use this? I thought I read it well for a first reading, but I'm waiting for a friends email to hear her interpretation

Marion	11 Aug 2002
I use layout a. I did the turning wheel exercise that Kyrielle mentioned and it pretty well cures you of seeing the layout in a static way. For those who don't know it, you lay out the cross part of your CC the way you usually do and interpret (you don't use the shaft for this). Then you move the outside cards all one notch clockwise and interpret again, then again and again until the cards come back to their original place. So, what was the root cause at some point becomes the future, and the future will turn into the past. By the time you try that, the exact order seems too rigid and contrary to the flow of the universe. Really. Try it. :)

WolfSpirit	12 Aug 2002
I use spread a. In other spreads I also put the past to the left and the future to the right, so does seems most natural to me. I don't think I'll try another, that would just confuse me unnecessarily. I will try the clockwise turning of the cards some time - it sounds so funny, I really wonder what Í'll make of that.

lupo138	13 Aug 2002
sorry, I have a different one :) 6 advice 5 near future 1(situation)/2 (crosses it) 4 near past 3 (basis of the situation) I do it rather from left to right because Death rides from right to left and I do not want to share his direction. But in the end I think that it doesn´t make any difference, as long as one remembers what each place was meant to symbolize.

lupo138	13 Aug 2002
but it is anyway a cross ! so it is not 6 5 3 but 6 1/2 3 with 5 on the left and 4 on the right side

Alissa	13 Aug 2002
I used to use b) but now I'm leaning towards a). With the b) spread, I verbalized as "What is above you, what is below you, what is before you, what is behind you." Cards Below and Above I often use as a karmic timeline -- what they came into this world to achieve (below), and what result they can expect if they achieve it (above). Cards Before and Behind were just that, plain ole recent past/recent future interpretation. Now though I'm studying the Joan Bunning book and leaning towards her a) approach. But I ask myself which to do now when I lay down my cards, and I never used to worry. I just did whatever version felt right. (perhaps that's what I should stick to eh?)

The Celtic Cross and card order thread was originally posted on 07 Aug 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.