wands and swords... fire and air?
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 23 Aug 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| marmalade |
23 Aug 2002 |
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hmmm, maybe i'm just a confused person, but I've always felt they should be the other way around.. ie wands=air and swords=fire. i think when i was first getting into tarot, some of the books i read said one thing, while the others said another, and i'm pretty sure that's how the 'little white book' that came with my first deck (art nouveau/myers) had the suits set out (wands=air). The imagery on the cards certainly lent to this, and the more books i read that always used the rider-waite deck as the example (with wands = fire), i just decided to 'switch' them around to suit my deck.
ok, so why am i harping on about this? well because i just recently got my 2nd deck (tarot of oz), and it has swords=air, represented by the scarecrow, and wands=fire, represented by the lion. i need to study the cards more to get a better feel for them, but i just can't seem to get past the swords=air thing, but with the suit being represented by the scarecrow & his quest for knowledge (a very 'airy' thing to me), i'm worried i might not be able to read with them 'properly'. :confused:
does anyone else see wands=air? i dunno, i think i just feel swords are too harsh/violent for air, and fire seems to suit much better. what about all of you with many, many decks... do you find some decks are wands=air while others are wands=fire?? :confused: :confused: :confused:
i'm so :confused:
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| Mojo |
23 Aug 2002 |
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I've never understood the whole elements/suits arguments. I read just fine without making any connections for the suits. If you're more comfortable with one vs. another, then use it and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. If Tarot doesn't have a personal meaning to you, you won't ever get it.
I also just got the Oz deck (and I got it in your home city just last week!). I had never seen it before and the store there didn't have a sample deck, so I bought it blind, which I hardly ever do. It's a great deck. And I love the Yellow Brick Road spread they have in the LWB.
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| Minderwiz |
24 Aug 2002 |
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I think there are several decks which use the associations of Wands=Air and Swords=Fire. I must admit I tend to use the more popular version though.
I take Wands as indicating action, assertiveness, doing and Swords as ideas, mental activity and hopes and fears as far as these are conscious ideas.
Minderewiz
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| blue_fusion |
24 Aug 2002 |
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isn't it the other way around? that most decks are oriented towards wands=air, and swords=fire, as most are rider-waite based, and, from my knowledge, the rider-waite is oriented that way. :)
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| marmalade |
24 Aug 2002 |
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see, i've always associated wands with magic & magicians & conjuring, more of a 'mental' sort of thing, while the swords make me think of knights and battles, and more 'action' sorts of things. but these two suits, either way you look at them, have always seemed more 'muddled' together or overlapping than the others. hmmm... i'm gonna have to have a thunk to sort this new deck out now!!
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| lunalafey |
24 Aug 2002 |
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do a search. There was a recient thread on this very topic that had some very good thoughts. There are examples of why wands could be air and why swords might be air, etc. The opinions for all sound very valid. I have decks that are both ways.
I read them as such as well, because for this or that deck, it works.
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| Keslynn |
24 Aug 2002 |
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I was under the impression that Rider-Waite-Smith was set up with wands as fire and swords as air. Also, I think most of the RWS clones are set up that way as well though it's possible to use your own personal interpretations with them. There are valid reasons for both assignations, as was discussed in the thread lunalafey kindly pointed out.
Personally, I'm a wands/fire and swords/air kinda gal.
:) Kes
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| marmalade |
24 Aug 2002 |
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Thanks! I'm trying to track down that thread now... any hints as to who the original poster was, date it was posted on...?
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| Minderwiz |
24 Aug 2002 |
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Kes is right, the RWS deck. its clones and most decks, including the Thoth deck treat Swords as Air and Wands as Fire.
Some decks such as the Celtic Dragon Tarot and the Shapeshifter Tarot. do reverse the association. Don Mcleod claimed that this was based on a mistake
‘Some traditions associate wands with air, but this was due to historical inaccuracy from a source within the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn in the early 1900's - unfortunately, this mistake stuck in some traditions, even after official documents from The Golden Dawn - showing the actual attributions of wands/fire and swords/air - were released for general publication.’
I don't know to what extent McLeod's claim is true and I'm not sure that even if it were it proves the Wands/Air Swords/Fire association is invalid - if it works for you then go with it.
Minderwiz
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| Thirteen |
24 Aug 2002 |
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Originally posted by marmalade
oh... i think i found it. it's here if anyone else is curious: http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2621
i'm off to read the rest of it now!
Um, no, that's the one for directions and time of year--as well as "elements"--there was one thread JUST on this topic of wands/swords.
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| Trogon |
29 Aug 2002 |
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Originally posted by marmalade
i think when i was first getting into tarot, some of the books i read said one thing, while the others said another, and i'm pretty sure that's how the 'little white book' that came with my first deck (art nouveau/myers)...
Thank goodness someone finally typed this out (little white book). I kept seeing people mentioning this "LWB" and I could not figure it out.... (doh!) :|
Trogon
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The wands and swords... fire and air? thread was originally posted on 23 Aug 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.
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