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MY MAJOR TAROT REALIZATIONS, to me they are big)

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 29 Sep 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

HOLMES  29 Sep 2002 
i was reading the major arcana section of 78 degrees the other night. and i was so tired that the last thing i saw was the world card 22,, which adds up to 4,, or subracts to 0.
so the fool is at the beginning of the tarot , and the end and all over the major arcana.

when i woke up i had to go take a look for i knew world card was 21. sure enough it was figure 22 and not world card 22.

so i let that idea go (into my subscounscious) and read the minors,, and i was amazed that they did the ten to acees. instead of aces to ten like anyother taot book i see. and after i was done reading i was thinking of how it makes so much sense going from 10 to 0 getting closer to source,
and i was thinking of how major arcana is all related and some cards are extensiton of others..but how ?

then i remembered that they add up the number of the higher majors to get a relation to the other card. example 13 becomes four, so the death card is the emperor higher meanings,, which the emperor should strive for .
but what is does 0 really mean ? we can' see 0,, we know it is a matter of owing, but on the deeper level what does it means ?

then i thought , 3 takes away 1 gives you two, which becomes high priestess
thus the higher meanings of emperor becomes death,, while the deeper meaning of emperess becomes death..

then i thought to myself therfore 1 to 9 gives you two major arcanas,, a highe meaning and a deeper meaning,,

starting at 10 which becomes 1 adding or subtracting it numerical value ,, then 11 becomes 2, and 0(fool deeper meaing, )
12, becomes 3, 1,
and i went up to the higher major arcan starting at 19 to 21,

19 (sun) becomes 10 becomes1, i becomes, 11 minues 9 to become 2,
20 becomes 2, and 2,
21 becmes 3,, 1

i haven't did all the cards yet i do know this ,, the first three majors, 1, 2, 3, has more cards connected to it then other cards, for they are coser to the source ,, divine source.

but what does this mean ?

and i was looking at the minor arcanas,, thinking of 10 to 0,, 0 to ten, thinking of the keyword system developed by sylvia abraham and thinking to myself why ,, is the keywor system stopping at 10? what about the majors arcanas,, they must be included somehow.
(the keyworld system suggest that aces is the magican manifested in all the elemenents, and so forth)

yet looking at the major arcanas it can eaily be applied to the minors, as well

therefore the minors be for example lovers in the minors which mean choice
and 15 as the higher meaning (devil) 17 as the hidden meaning, (7 minus 1)

so six of cups would mean con treating on happy memories, or bein attached to the past memories devil, and the hidden meaning or deeper meaning is the star hope for the future.

let us apply this idea to the 6 of swords.
six of sword is journeying by river do we choose to go down the river ? or stay ,, drop the swords into the river ?
at the higher meaning ,, the devil warns us the swords travel with us due to bing attached to fear and bondage..
and at the deeper meaning there is hope for the star entails light in the night to lead us home.

let take the number seven,

16, added, 18 subtracted,therefore the chariot becoes the tower at the higher, and moon at the deeper,

7 of swords, usally shows someone stealing from the enemy camp.
taking action against the enemy to strike, yet the tower warn that without planning it will fail and whipe out the king and queen, and the moon warns do we move without knowing the way in the dark ? do we follow the good dog instincts or do it out the bad wolf instincts anima instincts, .
in other words yes we need to take action but we must think of are we doing it from a wise dog or a mean wolf
(given the pictures as wolfs are noble creatures, eheh)

or 7 of cups,
we see the fansty the deeper meanings is we must act , choose a cup and drink it.. yet are we sure of what we are doing in the tower, for lighting strikes where and when it will
and we make the choice of dreams in the hidden light of the moon. do we follow the noble wolfs instincts ? or the tamer dog . which is called for,

but there is a deeper meaning to all this that affected me,,
remember in marvel comics there was the eternity,and infinity, differnt but the same.
these are both in the fool card who is the infinite potential and travels endless journeys into eternity.

and thus the circle of my own naiv spiritulit is shown to me,

and therefore it lies true in the minors as well. when we are born do we start at the ten of swords for example and work our way towards source?

(you may say so for given the ten of sworsd suit,, the ego has hidden our spirit in the life time ,
and in the spiritual wands we carry our karma when we are born from previos lifes,
and in the pentacles we are usally born with happy familis while the spirit guie sits and watche us.
and in the ten of cups,, it is the same,, knowin joy)

or we are born at the ace ,and try as we can to get to the ten then after that point we start making our way back to the source, to prepare for our return home.

1. the majors close to the source are reflected in the extended majors and they are all more related then we know
2, this is shown in the minors.
3,the tarot shows not only the tree f life in the kabbalah (which i am waiting to order some books to study )

on a side not it is shown in the minors arcanas due to the fact like i thought,, and rachel pollack says the majors are indeed the ether suit and this greater suit which makes up the four elements are reflected in them. 

Thirteen  29 Sep 2002 
Some good observations--of course, some decks don't number the majors--and then there are decks that put Strenght at 11 and Justice at 8 (instead of following Waite's alternate numbering)--and what changes does that make to them and/or their "higher" majors? My point simply being that numbering can be tricky--and the meanings of numbers even more so. Consider, as one example, that Asians have a very different opinion of which numbers are lucky or unlucky than we do. And our view of what numbers means is often prejudiced by Judeo-Christian beliefs (like being anti-#13--a very good number if you're a pagan!).

As for Abraham's keyword system--I happen to love this system but it *is* for beginners. It doesn't go beyond 10 because the whole trick is to relate the first ten in the Majors to the ace-10 in the minors. This makes it beautifully simple for a rank beginner--or, better, for someone who's been trying to understand the cards for a while now and still having trouble--to finally get a handle on the meanings. If she were to add in majors above 10, that would only confuse matters. Besides, once the person has those first ten (and all the minors) the remaining majors can be learned on their own with relative ease.

Not to say that they can't be given whatever keywork works for you--or related, as you do, to lower cards--as I believe Pollock does. What you're doing with the numbers, however, is way beyond a beginner, and thus, beyond Abraham's book.

Remember as well that in some decks the Fool is #22. I prefer him at 0, but there are those that give him the last instead of first number. And leave us remember that you do have 22 majors, not 21. The Fool may be 0, but he doesn't count for nothing ;) 

HOLMES  29 Sep 2002 
i should say to what logic this system works, the study of the rider waite and all the system that stay true to it. in it 78 degrees, and forest of souls, rachel suggest why she accepts justice being 11, and strenght being 8. so the system is limited for other systems , i forget what system thoth uses as i got it up the hill currently, the number system i use is only for the major arcana,, not focusing on the magic of numbers but just how they apply to the majors, and the minors, as it pertains to relationships

aye agreed for beginners,, what this systems is adds higher meanings, deeper meanings to the minors. :O)
aye i havne't even applied the keywords system itself,, i just applied how she applies the majors to the minors,

Remember as well that in some decks the Fool is #22. I prefer him at 0, but there are those that give him the last instead of first number. And leave us remember that you do have 22 majors, not 21. The Fool may be 0, but he doesn't count for nothing
the system works for the fool journey as it stands for the fool being 0, i see some limitations, aye,
ohh the system doesnt' leave the fool out,, for 11 applies to the fool 1-1=0 that is how the fool applies to justice, and :O) 

VmprGokuboi69  29 Sep 2002 
is just confused 

Kazz  01 Oct 2002 
Hey Holmes, I am impressed with the way you think, you have a great mind.(but you already knew that didn't you)
I thought you would be interested in what i have found in a book that I have.
the book is Complete book of Tarot/Spreads
Ok, in this book there is a section on "Quintessential Cards" which in other words are "the sum of digits"
i will quote a little from this.
The answers to questions are always found in the total layout, not in any one individual card. At the conclusion, you can calculate the sum of digits of the cards in the layout. the Queen, King, knight, Page and the Fool count as 0; the Ace counts as 1.
The Major Arcana card that corresponds to the calculated sum is called the Quintessential card, or Quintessence.

This I also thought was interesting, sometimes it may also act as a control card, testing the conclusion you have reached.

Now Holmes here is something else

two major cards together represent conflicting and complementary relationship of the two. For instance, "(6) The Lovers" and "(15) The Devil", represent a conflict and complement as also with "(3) The Empress" and "(12) The Hanged Man", again a conflict and complement etc.

Other possibilities with the major Arcana are of "(1)The Magician" card can also be looked at as a 22 + 1, the "(2) The High Priestess" card as 22 + 2 etc. When placed as a circle or spiral 22 is not the final number or the end, For example, (14) + (9) = 23 = 22 + 1: "Temperance" + "The Hermit" together describe and explain "The Magician". Also, (17) + (7) = 24 = 22 + 2: "The Star" + "The Chariot" together explain the "High Priestess".

So Holmes, I think you have something here.:D
I must admit though, I haven't used this, but I find it very interesting and I am eager to study this a little further. But I have a little more study on other aspects of the Tarot first.
Anyhow thankyou for sharing this interesting thread.



HOLMES  01 Oct 2002 
i wrote for two hours and on this then divided up the posts three sectio and i went to do the first one, and i had to log back in grr, s i lost it all but i will post now the other two ones,

the deeper method (subtraction to get closer to source)

fool as justice as deeper,
magican has , and hanged man, and world card deeper,
high priestess , , and death deeper,
emperess has , , temperance, deeper,
emperor has , and devil deeper,
hierophant has , and tower as deeper,
lovers has , and star deeper,
chariot has and moon deeper,
strength has , sun deeper,
hermit has moon higher
wheel of fotrune has sun higher

the fool is about us taking risk, the jouney to earth to get born was a leap of learing, to fall in love, to face our own demons, the fool is in every aspects of the major arcana but it is more so in the justice card then any other card. and the reason is simple.
in all our fools(and magician journey as the magican is when the fool first take material form ) we must remember that the we at the soul level is responsbile for our individual world we create.
take at the extremes the devil made me do it
i recall someone signature that the devil didnt' make me do it , but it came highly recomended, (thanks whoever signatur that was i forgt :O), we choose to listen. so the justice card is the conquences cards for the fool card.

magican card we are creating our own world but because we get bored creating the same old same old. eventualy we hang upside down to see what we created from a diffent view, and for inspiration thus we see new things,and attractcs new things for like the cosmos we ultimaley cocreate our lives with the source, and this is reflected in the world being the very deep lesson of the magician. we do in fact create our own reaities, and all we need to do this is hang upside down and let the world take it course to realize it is run by the rules we accepted long ago into our lifes, therefore we made the rules.

the high priestress card again talks of the great mystery that we look at realzing there was soemthing greater the ourselves. and we can only understand bits and pieces of it, OHHH but how they mean the whole spiritual path to us. the deepest mystery of us all is actual death and figurtely death, and why it happen, why cant things remain the same, and that is where the mystery goes, the unknown that lies in front of us all, and all we can do is life for the moment and that is the greatest secret .

the emperess is about understanding nature laws and abiding by them, the seasons, the sun pattern, astraology which we can not change. we begin emotioanly growing, having compassion for our fellow man, (actually we alwasy did, but as group ) and individuality begin to look into the higher emotions then fight or flee. the deeper meaning of this is the temperance card, balance,
temper anger with compassion, hate with love, love but not at the expense of yourself. give to the world, but also give to yourself. nature laws is moderation.

the emperor si where we make moralasitc law, and begin to think for the good of the kingdom, the group. thus logic of spock is invoked. yet the deeper meaning is for the good of group boils down to old think each person of the group must the best he could for himself so the group can grow but the new system by john nash says the person does what is best for himself and the group thus aligning his goals with the group , not living for the group or for his self. for he does one or the other the devil card pops up and tell us we are to attach to our own desires, or too attached to power, or even conforming to the group.
the group becomes a oppresive politcal power run by a dictator thinking they are doing what is right for all.

the hierophant which means teaching that law to other and following the teachings going from your own morals to society morols, and customs. yet notice how quickly we turn away from morals and resort to basic needs when the tower strikes, such as natural disasters, for exampe. which was unexpected therefore we have not had time to prepare yourself. can your morals you believe in, your beliefs basically stands up to situations.
and the deep teaching is less we build our morals on a good solid foundations they will fall at first test by nature, and society, and even universal laws (how often has the univers smack each one of us over the head eheh)

the lovers card which means choice, but the deeper meaning is this, you have choosen the relationship no one but your is responsible , your are resonsbile for staying int this relationship.
even for going after the younger chick at the expense of your marriag to an older woman(some lover cards are like they which reminds me, at the time they could either marry for politcis, or family , or for their own choices, ,, if they caved in to the family or politics it is because they choose, because they cared about the people, or those who would benefit by it)
the star card shows us hope and compassion can be ours if we decided to love all people regardless of stature with equal love due to the star bein with in all of us.

the chariot cards which is action card, seeing we just made a choice in the lovers card we are taking action on that card by our own power the moon asks of the chariot are you taking action for your are following your tamer dog instincts which are loyal, and loving to people (the ideal dog)
or coming from the bad dog (i dont' say wolf for wolfs had bad images despite being noble creatures) which gives into his own base instincts kill conqueor feed.
the actions are taken for we can't think , feel , or know our way through it the only thing we can do is take action at this time and lt the cards fall where they may and in the monring we will see the truth.

the strenght card says by taming our instincts and loving and embracing our lower selves, and the shadow self of the personality , we will change the outer world ( example of instead of trying to get the partern to change, chariot we choose intead ot change ourself which in effect affects our partner which they according to their own person will change accordingly)
thus we will realize the higher ideals of the unvierse,coming to know higher power, by realizing receptively by medation.
buddha found his way through mediation and his message still echoes,

the hermit card there is no deeper card for this card for the hermit is already not just mediating but pathworking actively mediating to find his way , he went into the desert to find himself , his power jesus did for example.
on a deeper level we are preparing outselves for a return to source by letting go of old thougts, and the hermit has already prepared his life before he wentto the cave to die.
(the native way, when an elder was getting close to death they left to die, to not be a burden)
the hermit shows his inner light for other to follow, the granparents share their knowledge before thy pass on,

the hermit card there is no deeper card for this card for the hermit is already not just mediating but pathworking actively mediating to find his way , he went into the desert to find himself , his power jesus did for example.
on a deeper level we are preparing outselves for a return to source by letting go of old thougts, and the hermit has already prepared his life before he wentto the cave to die.
(the native way, when an elder was getting close to death they left to die, to not be a burden)
the hermit shows his inner light for other to follow, the granparents share their knowledge before thy pass on, 

HOLMES  01 Oct 2002 
the major arcana and how it affects them
(edited to add in ) first one is the one connected to by adding, and the other one is the one reached at by subtracting
justice, =high priestess=fool
hanged man=emperess=magican
death=emperor=high priestress
moon= =hermit=chariot
sun=wheel of foturn =magian, strenght
judgment=high priestes=highpriestess
world card =empereress, magican

justice is about being resonbile for our own actions, not someone else, and only we judge ourselves when we are done here by reviewing our lives and moving on. the high priestress reminds me us that it too is part of the justice card reminding us to be responsible even for those decisions we don' know why we make them or why we made them for deep down inside we know why we are just denying it. and the fool is reminding us we made our decisins based on following our heart and our spirit even if it ligt was hidden by the ego.

the hange man which tells us sooner or later we sacfice our time by hangng upside down to see the life from another perspective.
yet by our emotions and nature lawas we can undestand them better by this perspective and helps us to create our new lives based on what we see on the old lives,

death card is about transformation, and change,the passing of the old for the new. it is logical change which can not be denied b society but embraced, and therefore the mysteries of death is found when we explore it hen it happesn to us.

the temperance card is about balance, and moderation , and tempering everything with its opposite element to make a product finall balanced. we do this by taking what society knows and learned and temper it with our own knowledge, and our own hearts. and taking account nature laws, and society morals, we must balanced them out and no go one higher over the other. only by balancing out the mental , physcial, and spiritual can our emotional selves really grow, undhindered and help the other aspects grow.

devil card about bondandage due to fear and power, and being attched to these things believing they are all that.
by realizing choices dictated our addictions we c an there choose to fight it, and over come it or give in .
and the logical aspects of the devil is the ego that controlls us hide our own true light. and the devil advocates only by loving me as part of you can your transform me with your inner light to a better par of yourself and you be free.

tower bad foundatios will make the tower fall, for it can not stand up to the forces that strike it such as the lighting, and water but after the weak stuff is all gone you can rebuild better then it was.
the chariot aspects of it says that somtimes action for the sake of action will break the tower or it could break you are you willing to take the risk.
and sooner or later our own beliefs systems will fall but the true stuff to us will remain and we can rebuild our system to suit us :O)

the star is about grattude, and hope, it is the light that guides us when we are lost (norrthern star slaves to canada to freedome)
therefore on the deeper level freedom from the system that binds us. it is there if we but have the strenght to beleve and follow it . for to follow it requires inner strenght. and the lover cards at the deeper level asks us are we choosing to follow it or think of it and keep it to we are ready.

the moon is about deception and half truths and trying to stay true to ourselves throug the last darkness of the soul we will see,
we have followed the star to the moon, sort to speak , (for the full moon was over the hill)
do we follow our instincts, ? will we resort to violence like our ancestors did or follow the loyal dog who was our spirit guide in the fool, ?
only by going inwards into the hermit and see the moon as an outer aspect of the inner light we have in ourselves, will we follow our own truths, for the moon is the truths as we can perceive it, and what we perceive will eventually expand into the sun. thus by traveling by the light of the full mon as the chariot we can get through the last darkness of the souls.

the sun. to me this is the light of the source shinin on us clearing away the darkness that was residual from our joureys. to the sun you are blessed both through the up and down cycles of the wheel of fortune which leads us to the magican for if we create with the universal light we will be folloing our soul light.
and thus it will become our strenght, and we will be able to become light workers and broadcast light to the world. since we are channeling the light and not using our own we wont' get tired but grow from it. (event hough too muh sun will burn us so the strenght card says when we have enough strenght we must use it and not hurt ourselvs by lifting to much )

judgement, the spiritual awakending which we will all go through at sometime in this physical life even if the messge nothing means anything for that is one first lesson of the cousein miracles, nothing means anything for i see only the past i w ant to see the truth which things as they are really are in the now. with the mind of the soul. which leads us back to the high priestrees, which started a minor spiritual awakening when we first realized we have a higher, inner ,and a soul and a divine spark in us the soul star that is us.

the world card is about (the world in your hands) how you choose to affect the world, ad remember your emperess lesson that nature follows their own rules such is the nature of mother nature, and mother earth the goddess aspects.
and how we focus it by action, and activley invoking it by the will of the magician in all of us.

gee lots of typing i will come b ack tomorrow and do the minors arcanas.

wheel of fortune, already the cycle as begun again, we are the makes of our destiny taking what we know and beginning a new cycle whether it be up or down is another story for another time when we are done the cycle. some call it the recarination cycle but in truth we choos to come back or go to other schools in other dimensions. 

HOLMES  01 Oct 2002 
10 = 1

the magican card which means focusing and using the higher will to invoke universal forces by our own will to create that which we wish to. the higher aspects of this card is the wheel of fortune which tells us that we make our own luck, we create our own future DESPITE what the fates throw at us for we transcend it.
and the sun is involed as well for it too makes up the wheel of fortune. so even higher then the wheel of fortune is we are co creating with the light of the universe there we must learn to channel it in postive ways.

the high priestress exploring the universal knowledge by putting it into forms and exploring them like the torah, and tarot , and the i ching for example. at the deeper level is the justice. which tell us there is mysteries to why we do things in our lives. but deep down inside we know iff we listen to inuition and do not deny it. and the high priestress points to a major spiritual awakening that we will achieve by following the path we are setting up by trying ot make tools to understand the greater mysteries.

emperess an aspect of nature itself it is realzing what nature and its laws are by being recpetive to their teachings, and living our life accordingly therefore we too are gettin in touch with our growing emotions. which we are understanding by following the laws of emotions. this get reflected in the higher teachings of the hanged man who looks at things from a new perspective and sacrfices a part of themselves for the higher knowledge (a year of their life, a resource, all for the greater good to see higher)
and which comes around to the world.
we learn that by mastering our selves and understand the laws of nature we can therefore affect the world by not directing these laws, or changing them by flowing with them and growing with them. the earth mother is an aspect of the goddes which is half of the dual nature of the source,

emperor using logic to dictate the path of society which has grown biger and in need of such laws. thus we are adhering ot society laws, and trying to understand the greater good of mankind as a whole.
it can only be understood by embracing death as the ultimate tranformer of society. the old president dies, the old king dies, to make way for the new king who is a person of the times. and in this tranformation comes the growth of the now by letting the old ideas die which are outdated and lived past their usefulness.
which is not to say all ideas such. for the ones we keep in the now are very useful and they tranform idealy with the times or die with the old cycle. such is the natural law of society or a stagnant society and cutlure dies off. (egypt, romans,) due to technology for example(the aztecs which was killed due to the superior technology of the eropeans)

heirophant, we now have society morals which do not make up laws, but are based on the wisdom of the elders the teachers trying ot pass on customs of culture. in the previous card we saw death of socity laws that have outlived their usefulness and such was the way with customs.
but the higher meaning of the heirophant was temperance, tempering the wisdom of the elders which ring true to you , and soon you will make choices of which to follow .

the lovers. the choice, do we follow love or lust, society standards or our hearts stands,
(in the older cards they showed a man pickting between his wife married to customs and young misteress who was more his own age trying ot decided to do what soceity demands or follow his heart) THE FOOL HAS FALLEN IN LOVE , thus the lovers will follow his heart less it is reversed.
the higher a spects of the lovers is the devil, which shows us the attachments such choices can have. due to fear, (of being alone for example) power (i got control of this relationship i will never let it go )
soul mates are people who meet for a time being sharing soul love and moving on remember each other .
the rare "true soul mates" is those who are so attached to each other they must love each other and no other. they become so intwined they become one and twin souls.

the chariot they who take action for they want something , ambition , they must explore and conquor the world. they must expand.
however the higher aspect of the chariot says if you take action without planing or good foundation you will fail in the long run.
(think of alexander who cried when he conqueor the known world for there was no more for him to do , he died shortl after )
(in the movie excaliber the uthor killed the duke, took his wife, took his castle, took his land , he was not the one the people would trust, and therefore the tower which he built on lies and deciet would fall , remmeber he was killed that day )
in the oso zen you can either break through , or break down there can no other way. for either way you will get a chance to rebuild the tower if it falls or iff the tower withholds you will know it is strong.

the strenght card means conqueoring yourself within, learning to love your lower self,and embrace it. therefore the woman who does this can use her lower enegies in receptive ways to channel into postive ways.
the higher aspects of this is the star, by mediating she sees a star, and sees it with in her. (buddha speaks :O)
she chooses to not to fight anymore but love herself and her fellow man as well.

the star leads her to the hermit life.
he went to himself to find his inner light so he can see the greater light. only by going inward can he percieve the truth in the outer world.
the lantern he holds is there for all to see but it is there so he can see in the dark as well, for in truth he is interacting with the moon, the hermit is deciding once and for all which path he will take the raw intincts of the wolf or the tamer instincts of the dog,
all he knows is he must follow the light, and he hopes the light of the moon will allow him to see well enough to see through deption and half truths of everything in his life. to society laws, to his fool spirit, to his co creations, to the choices he made.
he is preparing for a return to the cycle. and he wants to do it diffently but first he must acess his past, and let it go.
(jesus in the desert, accepting his path)

the wheel of fortune, the cycle, already you see the beginning of the cycle agian but it is an higher aspects, you made the choices, seen nature laws, and society laws, seen moralistic customs, and the world, and your onw inner strenght, and your inner light.
accepted the mysteries as you saw them.
now you realize for all you made your are still bound to the cyles of the universe. for try as we might we cannot change the direction of the wind , the stars of astrology, nor the higher meanins of the tarot , or make the book of changes stop for it will grow grow, tarot will be continue to been at higher levles, book of changes will continue to change, new astrology will be found, for every cycle things get higher and deeper,
the more things change the more they stay the same, yet over time,, the change will overpower the same.
and how we deal with it goes back to magican , let the cards falls where they might ..
we can try to change them or accept them or grow along with them it all depends on the realities we make.

whew. so tomorrow if i got the energy i will work on the minors 

VmprGokuboi69  01 Oct 2002 
is still confused 

HOLMES  01 Oct 2002 
magican has wheel of fortune, higher and sun, and hanged man, and world card deeper,
high priestess has justice higher, , and death deeper,
emperess has hanged man, higher and world card higher, , temperance, deeper,
emperor has death higher, and devil deeper,
hierophant has temperance as higher, and tower as deeper,
lovers has devil higher, and star deeper,
chariot has tower higher, and moon deeper,
strength has star higher, sun deeper,
hermit has moon higher
wheel of fotrune has sun higher
fool has justice as deeper

by looking at looking at the four elements

starting at the spring suit (according to my own thouhts not an estabalised system as i am not using astrological associatios.
cups is the water suit and water to me is snow melting, and being recpetive to the sun..
fire is the summer suit for the hot sun,
earth is the fall for when we get most in tune with nature and the harvest suit.
winter is air. for the mind can cut off emtions making them hard (water into snow)
and cut off the spiit (making it cold)

we can see how this system manifests in the minor arcans. how the ether suits afects an element.

the ace of a suit is closest to the element and is associated with the magican. who has begun to cast magic to affect his world therefoe the ace of cup means begining to think and create love for ourselves. and being recptive to love in return. the higher aspects of the wheel of fortune being associaed by the system with magican is therefore reflecte here, if only they would love me back, if only they would notice me. we can either make ourselves be recnozied or move on to a more recptetive more loving person. and more so since the wheel of fortune is lower aspects of the sun (19=1+9=10) we can therefore see how the ace of cups can led to the sun shining on in universal terms the cup is being handed to me , the sun is staring to shine, all i must do is open to recieve and act. the deeper ascpects of the system also applies to see that the ace of cups means we must be prepared to turn our world upside down and risk, it is the new that interests us. for we seen enough of the old emotion. the world card beng the deepest aspects of aces, means that once we learn to love one, we can learn to love two, and we can learn to love many , and after we can get enough love to love the world.

the two of cups is about sending out your enery like you did in the aces and opening to recieve the return energy. this can be liken to first love,the first time you made it know your like someone and the first them they repripocated it to you. there is a relationship with an emotional connection in front of you. the higher aspects of the justice card come into play here tellin us that if the deny the love we are responsible, if the relationship don't work we are resonsible (if the relationship has gone to far to the negaitive we are responible for we stayed) and then we get to the deeper level of the two of cups. change happens in all relationships do we change our life for the relationsips or change our selves an let the relationship change accordingl.

the three of cups has three people celbrating in accordance wtih the laws of natures. they are celebrating a harvest, there is very much a meeting of hearts at the party renewing friendships. however the hanged man aspects in all emperess cards reflect the needs to take a differnt view of the party. they are letting their hair down and letting go being playful,(do not trust monk who not laugh, hug, and dance :O) and even more so is the world card an higher aspects of this picture for they are celbrating for that exact moment the world is theres and they could dance forever and a day. tomorrow will be a differnt world and so the deeper lesson of the party is tempernce. the partying must be tempred or one could drink themselves into death, drive home drunk and crash, or make mistakes that night ibidue with the mirth of drink (flirt with some one other then your partner)

the four of cups suggest that we are bored with the cups, even as more love is offered in the clouss , why isn't it difrent things i have? not realizing how blessed he was to have so many cups.
the emperor says logical we should be happy but we are not an we seek more. the death card as a more higher aspect says that we must be willing to change the relationship, for stagnantion leads to disease and blocked love.(some coupls dont' fall out of love but get bored with each other, they did it all).
the deeper aspects of it is we are so attaced to the cycle that feel trappe. and it is time to break free.

the five of cups shows a person crying over the spill wine, wondering why why? the sorrow over wealms the good in their life as there are to cups not spilt. is it possibe the love is over ? they knocked the cups over in anger to represent their pain ?
the heirophant aspects of this card suggestwe ar asking the universe why and the teachings and wisdom of the forfathers cannot ease the pain in our hearts. the tower aspects in the cups says the testing has come and if the relationship is failing it is due to the weeding out of bad energy and we can rebuild on the two cups left, which will make a new foundation if one continues to follow the relationship.

the six of cps shows a person accepting cup from an other person. the images reminds us of when we were young and we had that specal crush. it is a return to love.we have weeded out the emotional pain in the previous card. this is a representation of the ideal true love. two souls meeting when they are young who will grow up to be the lovers themselves. yet the devil aspects of the lovers says that we could be attached to the relationship for all the time we spent investing in the relationship.
or we could never truly love another or we are till attached to the past lover who has left our life. the deeper aspect of this card represents that this meeting could be the star of our lives, this relationship helps us to feel young and alive again. so the star has come to the person to give them hope.

the seven of the cups shows a person looking at all the cups in front of them and being so indecisive of them that he is stuck. the card aspects of the chariot comes into play saying it is time to take action, have an amibiton and grab a cup and follow though.
and the tower as a higher asects says it is all about the risk taking. and unexpected natures forces in front of us. as the deeper aspects of the seven of cups is are these cups realy in front of us ,, or are they illusions we have gain by day dreaming by moonlight when we are alone ?

the 8 of cups shows a person leaving one assums his cups are empty but the 78 degrees questions that are they really empty or was it just the natural time to leave, the cup nicely stacked up for the next person to come by and use. therefore the person leaving has a sense of closure. the strenght card in relation to this shows it takes great inne strength to leave for emotions sake and not for the sake of action like in the 7 of cups. the star shows we are leaving following the star finding our destiny having trust that it will be dffernt and better somehow then the current situation. the deeper aspect of this is the sun card is shown here in combination with the moon (not by the system but by the card illustration it is a time o solar eclispe) thus the sun showed you the time was now, letting illusions block the truth yet the sun still shine upon you letting you know that all you see was illusions. the special realization happens rarely only now and then but when they do like eclises they are special. (not everyone can handle a eclipse going blind by it)

the nine of cups shows a person with many cups behind him filled the brim. it is called the wish card for the person seeking their tresuare has found it. this is a card of near completion. and the hermit is connected through the fact by going inward to love themselves it was reflected back at them by the univese. the higher aspects of this card are the moon. we went through the emotioanl illusions of pain, and love, giving and recieving, and we can know the higher love we been aspiring to. such love lights other peoples darkest night .

the ten of cups we have the joy we seek the famly, and the cycles begins a new. here the wheel fortne which is abou cycles, up and downs patterns. has a higher teaching of the sun in the card. the sun is shing upon them, making the residual of the rain colourful as a rainbow. now we start the cycle again as the patriach teaching our kids, our emotionals programing we have learned, the kids have picked us to teach them this for better or worse. and as strong woman and men we beging the cycle back to source, for we will count down to aces which is the last mode we will be in before we expire. 

MeeWah  01 Oct 2002 
HOLMES: WOW!! I particularly like the way you connected the lower/single-digit Major Arcana with its higher/two-digit counterpart (or implied higher number is another way to see it). In contrasting the light & its shadow or a card with its shadow, one sees not only the duality that is inherent in life but also a means to access the higher understanding which leads to wisdom.

You have also devised a remarkable system of explaining the significance & influences of the elemental aspects as represented by their suit & stages (numbers). 

VmprGokuboi69  01 Oct 2002 
I'm still confused... So what I'm going to do is print this out and study it carefully... LOL 

HOLMES  02 Oct 2002 
the suit of wands.

ace of wands a hand in the clouds offering a wand, a spiritual path for you to explore. seeing it is already in the cards sort to speak.what is going on is the exploration of spiritual beliefs and ideas not yet put in phyisical manifestation.combined it with the magician energy and we see how invoking to change the spiritual surrounds we are one can see to be the ideal. howver the wheel of fortune as an higher aspects suggess that we must not chang the cycle but embrace it. that is what the spiritual path is about accepting the divine will of the path and the plan we set forths in our lifes before we were born. the sun burns hot all through this suit as the flame is the direct element in sun card. so in the ace of wans it seems like it was offered as casily as the rays are sun are offered every day, so the path is truly offered every day as a new beginning . The deeper side of the ace of wands is the hanged man, only by taking a unexpected new view on things in our life can we experience the divine spark for other wise our mind blocks off the wands energy. therefore the ace of wands is about setting forth on the spiitual path to do what we came here to do to learn about the world and all its spirituality and our path will help the world as best as we can.

the two of wands shows a person with two wands trying to see where in the world, his inner, and outer,and the whole world to put his fire energy,his creative spirit. thus the man is using his inuition to be attracted to a part of the little micorcomic world to apply himself in the macocosmic world. and ultimaly he will accept responbilities for his actions and deciions that made according to his wll. the deeper lesson of the two of wands is change. what he does from here will affect is whole spirtual path. no one knowsf it will fail or suceed but what matters is he embrace the energy of death and ran with it. even the gods get must take risks sometimes.

the three of wands, shows the same man in card two waiting for the ships to come in,, the trade has been completed and now he has to but accept it. only nature laws can go wrong, according to him. yet nature laws are not wrong. the captain could of sailed into a storm, the captan could of hired unmoralisic men trusting them to have his back. the higher aspects of the chard show the world could be his, if the people he trusted went with the laws of nature and not against. for despirte everything the laws of natures dictate the world nature and not mans. and at a deeper level temperance was invoke, the man did not trust all his savings to the transaction just what he could comfortably spare and replace. if it succeds so be it the fire will expand. if it doens't suceed then nothing is lost but a little resource.

the four of wands suggests that it is time to rest from the spiritual journe for you have deserved it. it is time to celebrate on all the things you have done.
the major arcana of the emperor says when in rome do as rome do.your freinds are partying society laws and hidden society laws defined as class says you must give in, for you would offend many. the death card is higher asepcts of this little party, saying yes it is time to celebrate the pasing of the old for the new for we honor the memory of those who have lifed life to the fullest. it is not a somber moment but a glorious one. at the deeper leve the devil comes into play. the spiritual person is attracted to laughter and mirth, and it becomes addicting. the devl warns against having a party every night for it will evenualy sap your wil you need to get the next step.

five of wands shows five youths,testing each other strengts. in a way everyone is testing each other inner fire,how human they are in their spiriutal is the hirophant in the card showing his influence. they are testing the teachings they have recievd from their masters. my master is greater then your masters. not realizing the true spiritual person does not challenge another paths but are the teachers who help them the best they can on their paths. however in a way they are teachng each other in their sharing of ideas, knowledge and perspective.
the main thing to remember is the tempeane influence which says we share the path moderately not enough to burn them with our inner fire (weall know that feels to be burned by another path)
or not enough and compassion and the very spirit of the path will die and fade as we starting the illuional path of the hyprocrite.
so the deeper lesson of the five of wand is the shaking of the foudation of the path we have set ourselves on so we can test it if it is true fire , the test by fire will not affect it.

the six of wands some see this as the victor of war (the crusaders returning home but there is no armour on the man, could it be a spiritual man needs no amour)
yet i see it as the traveling spiritual man coming to a commuity he has touchd before in his travels. they know him and are welcoming him in the driveway (how are you, tell me about you travels , what did you learn?)
the deeper level of this card is the lovers choice, we choose to come this communiy and return here. of all the places we choosed to come here (suppose you were dying in the desert and saw a village, you choose to go thre instead of dying there )
(choosed the spiritual path over another path at the highest level)
the devil warns us, do not get attached to the fame,and respect ohers have for you. this is so for sooner or later we wil have to make a spiritual path deciion that does not correspond with the mental path, physical, emotioanl path or even our freinds path.
the deeper level of this is the six of wands is about giving others hope by letting them see the compassion and will you have steming from your faith.

7 of wands, shows a person taking a stand against the will of others. the chariot aspets of this cards shows everyone must take action sooner or later. thus to a spiritual person that action is taking a stand for what we believe in even if that means taking on the whole community as leader. the higher aspects of the tower are in here as well it stem froms being the force that tests that which you are making the stand against for you are the spirtual warrior. and the deeper aspects(moon) if we must test the foundaion of the society to which we are responsible then we must do it by revealing the ilusion that society has about itself,all the way down to the individiuals.

8. the 8 of wands says we are being reptive to higher spiritual forces learnin about ourselves. it is coming andony thing we can do is embrace it for it is the light and wisdom we seekto understand. that is where the strength card comes into play on this element. we are asking for light and higher wisdm to turn our will inward to face our lower selves to learn about what we are hiding spiritalitly, all our fears, all our desires and transform them.
the deeper mnings is the lgiht tranfroms the lower weakness into high strenghts by changing their pupose.

9 of wands shows a person at a fort making his last stand.. or is he ?the wands forms a spiritual wall he can rest against, the bandage on his head he put it here or he caused his own pschic wound to clear away the illusions in his life, and the mind sets he letted go of. the nine is about the hermit in the spiritual element forming his spiritual cave so he can recharged himself for his next endevour. the wand he is holding he i about to place in place behind him and his wall will be complete. there is no deeper aspects to this as the hermit is about going deeper already eheh.
the moon which is the higher meaning of this card sugges we are making the final choice,to take the spiritual tests. or to give up on the path. even a experience pathworker of light can fall of the path when they do not take care of the psyhic mind, emotioanl heart, and physcial body.

10.the man is done his spirtual retreat and decided to go forward on his path, being what he wanted in the first place.he is the spirtual advisor, teacer,light, warrior he wanted to become the light asks so much of him and he can handle it all for with all these burdens come incredible gifs. friend, moment of true love, creative spark. his greatest joy come from awakening the creatve and spiitual fires in others. this is a card about spiritual cycles, he accepts his spiritual karma with his learned gifts and knows evenually the burdens will lessen and the gifts will remian.
the higher aspects of this card is the sun... to be a light of the world requires greater innerstrenght, and tat is the measure of the man.when someone says i can no never do that. the man will just smile and say i could never fight war like you great king
or build a castle like you great worker. or sing so sweetly as you o poet. all i do is share my insigts and knowledge.
the higher knowledge is the ten becoes 1, and therefore you can restart he part, try it diffently, or try an whole diffrnt path ?
the man will smile and start working his way back to source where he wanted to be in the first place. 

HOLMES  04 Oct 2002 
ace of pentacles shows a hand offering a pentacle and all you have to do to accept the pentacle is walk through the little nature gate and the road will go on.where it goes no one knows . this card is out new physical energy which hasnt' take form. again the magican asects is reflected her as you are thinkng of physcial action and so you will send it out into the world. your will is being set up to take physical form. this is the suit where you see the cycle put forth by the wheel of fortune in actua form. nature does her planting in the fall, if wolfs eat to many rabbits there will be a sarcity of rabbts and the next year wolfs will starve, then rabbis will breed more then there is wolves and the next year wolves will feast well on rabbits and the cycle will repeat itself. it may appear the cycles of the wheel has no basis yet one can see that it has all the basis :O). the sun is an higher aspects of the ace of pentacles suggesting that abundnce depends on the light one is able to take one. the deeper aspects of the hangedman says that the pratical nature, and common sense of the suit is to what others think of a new perspective (recall the story of truck stuck in a tunnel and some one suggests a simpe physical act of letting out air in the tires.) by seeing that the world card also has a deeper issue in the ace of the cups. this is much a card of the best thing i can to do help is take postive acton even if that is just choppin wood while the teacher prepares to do a sweat lodge. eheh.

two of pentacles. a person juggling his pentacles seeing which plan is better(light workers each that wiegh them by seeing the situatio in each hand and apply the possibe solution to each hand(differnt solutions) and that one that makes you feel light is the more better choice). in the back ground two ships are tossed around by the water and wind. the figure eight inbetween the two pentacle and around shows that as you give so shall you recieve. the high priestress shows a person recieving back his physical energy he gave after recieving his physcial insigt and actded upon it in the ace of pentacles. this person might be physically psychic. he recieve his information by feeling in his body. such a person should pay attenion to his diapgham or his stomach. this person understands by the pattern he has esablished that justice means being responsible for his actions. yet the deeper meanig behind the cards shows the death teaching. the pentacles can changes one feel goes up the other goes down accordingly. this is natural change but the man is trying to the keep the figure eight energy going by making sure h doesnt' drop a pentacle yet we and he knows he shall eventually the trick to move forward while they balance or you will end up back at the ace.

the three of pentacles shows a person being admired for his craftmnship even though he is just a apprenice (in te 78 degees which works from ten to ace , in figure 8 he is learning his craft and in this card he is being reconzied for his craftmaship as a master,that is the way waite does it in the picturial key it says in the 78 degrees) the emperess aspects of this card shows a person learning the laws of physicial mastery. a person can look after horses,, AND A PERSON CAN REALLY LOOK AFTER THE HORSES. thus the person is a master of his level noticed by others. they might be looking at the artwork for he is trying something better or differnt then what was order but is too good to take down. the deah aspect says this person is changing the way things were done, which is why they are noticing his work. it might be these two are placing an order and he is not even a master yet due to his abilities. the devil as deeper shows a person who is becoming attached to the way things are done and is scared to try. or possibly he is too attached to his own ideas and not learning. (he might be lacking depth to refuse to face his devil, thus scared to show his passion)

the four of pentacles shows a man becoming so infused with the physical element of earth and obessed that it leads to him blocking his spirital, psychic(on some rider waite clones) heart, and his feet centers. however to me this means his chakras are so infused with the element of earth, it is how he expressed himselves, when he goes to show love he does it by action. when he goes to express his spiritual center, he does it by talking about laws of society based laws of nature. yet he forget the lessons of balance and moderation. "man can not live by bread and bread alone." by beng obessed with his work he is missing out on love, social events and such. thus the death is coming to his work for it can not grow without change and he can not grow without change. it must be for he has grown attached to his work and thus the devil comes as a deepr level lesson he will grow through.

the five of pentacles. at first it looks like two begger who are outside the church heading to the door to get some food.(some my wonder why havethey come to this)
yet look at the man he has two crutches but he is walking with both leg. why is he lookin up? then one realizes he is both blnd, and got a cast one leg. (blind for he has a bell on for people wil know where he is). too blind to see the one he has asked for help has no possesions of herself to help him with. some figure the church has turn their backs on these helpless. but i believe they it has not. is there a door that is locked nay, what i see is the lady asked the blind begger if she can follow him and she knows he is following by the bells. the church light is on ,and once these two go around the corner they will be warmed, on this coldest night of these years. the heirophant energies here do not speak specifically of the church but all man. we do what we can in these dark times, and can not physically help them all. less a better system is in play. it is about moderation, and it is clear that the system is not working as the rich has too much and the poor have to little there a balance must be reached. the tower warns the church is not all it is based on,for foundations are shaken. one can ask why isn't the priest out there looking fo these two ? , for that matter why didnt'the rich come by with some soup and blankets. ( why didnt i give that teenage girl askn for change at the bus stop my change though i had some and me a spiritual person?)

the six of pentacles shows a person choosig to give to beggeras,sharing what he has. is this preaching by the tarot? nay it is a hope for the society, that the rich will give to the others. notice it is given freely , but based on what each deserve. perhaps these two did a job for the man and they are getting paid. this is a deeper lesson that we can no affect all society to make them all give what they can(not all of it ehh) that the person can choose to give, any change he has (once i gave my cousin 50 dollas when i was getting 900 dollars every two weeks out of the goodness of my heart though i know what he would do with it , it was my choice) the higher meaning of this is unless we all do something(what can i do i am just a man) the devil in all of us convinces us to do nothing, or turn our heads. the deeper level says we are the stars who can people hope by our actions, should we not do so ?

seven of pentacles is a person who is looking at his crops he knows soon he wil havest them and have money from selling his pentacles. he know the best thing he can do is farm every day,work every day. the charot is a action card, and the farmer is doing his action taking a minute to assese his work, like the chariot while in the chaiot card notice he is not yet riding but just about to. the tower is a higher card for if the man does not harvest today perhaps tomorrow there will be a frost and the man looss all his crops it is time to act good farmer. the moon as a deeper aspects show a man trying to discern the truth if his pentacles are ripe enough to pluck. should he follow his instincts and harvest now or perhaps on more day will improve the crop. 

HOLMES  04 Oct 2002 
8 of pentacles shows a person tryin his hand at smithing, or tinkering, (three of pentacle he was artist, four he was miser, 5 he was begger,6 he was merchant, 7 he was farmer) working hard to meet his quota, it seems he is seeking his inner strength, trying to better his previou work. the qualty of his pentacles were all the same, yet he knows if he keeps at it it will improve. thus the master is testing his limits, trying to tame his aristry by precision. the higher aspecs is the star, by now he knows what he is trying to do will affect the established world and perhaps that if he is such a master that it will be a star of hope for future masters to come. the deeper aspect is the sun , the master is inspired by creative source,a higher source above him that makes him want to accomplish his life work, and thus his life purpose.

nine of pentacle. he has accomplished all that he desired and is seeking what it all mean leaving his wife to look atter the estate who knows he will come back. why is she holding the bird? to take a message to her hermit husband all is well , and in the mornig will send it out and in the evening it wil come back fear not my wife i am well. there is no deeper aspects as the hermit is already about going inward to seek the outer light reflected in wards. yet the moon is still a higher aspects that shows decption and mystery, and illusion. and then it is revealed .
she is posing for a picture done by the master on his estate. he has being a master retreated to what his previous work has afforded and studying the techiques by self studying.

ten of pentacles. first time you see an old figure on a minor arcana card. this is the old master watching his daugter, and son discuss how to divide up the old man wealth outsde of his house, his attention is focus on his grandchild. and all he can teach the child. the dog from the fool card is there by him reminding him soon he will come home (give a little lee way :O) and the same dog is there by the child side as well.
the cycle will soon begin a new, and he will begin his journey back to source. yet as his body wanes, he will instruct the little child that by the time the old man passing comes the child be a young adult. the sun as a higher aspect of this card tells the old man he is bessed ,, he can try something new the next time around when we cast our wheel of fortunes. and see where it lands. 

HOLMES  04 Oct 2002 
suit of swords.

ace of swords shows a barren landscape with a swords being offered from the clouds. it might seem to another that out of peace come strife, but look at how barren the land is without swords to shape it?( it took a war to get us out of the depression some say,,scary thought eh)
in truth this land represents barren mind out of ideas, til one is offered by the divine source. all one needs to do is accept it.
(some can say the swords of the warrior is offered as it take a strong mind to train a body up for the warrior life)
the magican in the cards reminds us that our will affects our reality, and non more so then the ace of sword. our thoughts affect our reality, and when we act on this thoughts the true powe comes. our thoughts can affect the world outside us, postive and negtive. the wheel of fortune aspects of it says that the mind can affect our luck, by postive or negative reinforcement by send thoughts to the future determining our reality. the sun says by having posive thoughts full of light and love and sending the to others we are sharing the light that is being beamed at us from the divine source that sent the idea. the deeper aspects of it says that we need to have a new mental perspetive.thus, our mind is stagnant becomig barren of new ideas or even posive thoughts and the deeper level of that says the negative thoughts make us see everything as barren, and the postive toughts help us see a bountiful world.

two of sword shows a woman with sitting there at night, with a blindfold she put on, and two swords put held her heart. the lake is serene and peaceful. the sword are going up at an angle. and her feet are gounded. this card is about a person seeking mental secrets. the blndfold over her eyes is the seers blindfold. she can't see but her "eye" abilities are enchanced. the swords says she is trying to seek the higher mind, by blocking her emotins, and invoking cold hard logic. the higher aspects teaches us that we are not only resonsible for the acton but our thoughts themselves. those are just normal thoughts we tell ourselves but they are not they are ego thoughts triggeed by a refletion in our suroundings.lower self asects can not be denied forever despite the blindfold. we must be willng to let the denial die, and face our ego, our illusions, and embracethe self of us hidden.

three of swords shows a heart pierced by tree swords by three aspectsof the mind. and surrounded by a storm. this card is about sorrow, yet how can growing in mental truths cause sorro.
in truth we are clearing out past emotions clearing away past hurts and such still affecting us. therefore we are not feeling sorrow but leting go of emotions much like a vucan clear way their barbaian emotions but they do not die, they are largely supressed, held back by great mental control. since the emperess is all over this card, we are analyzing the laws of emotion affected by the mind,and leaning nature laws ofthe mind.
we hold pain, and it hurts us. an event can huant us forever less we deal with it and let it go. the higher aspets of this is even though we can hide the emotions,the world will reflect our hidden aspects to us for all to see. the deeper asects is balance, we must grow them together emotions and mind or we will lose our minds.

the four of swords a man is medaiting gathering his mind for tomorrow battle. in the window is reflected his family which shows even at our most calm our emotions can not let go of atachments.(recall star trek sixth when kirk walks to see spock mediating in that position) one thing about the emperor in the major arcana makes a person why he is just sitting on the throne looing regal like and in a war somewhere defendig his borders. he was emperor during peace time.(notice in other four of suit cards they were peaceful) but death comes to us all (braveheart princess whispers in the ear of longshank before he dies) so in essence changes comes to us all. he knows at any given time we can die, physically, spiritually, emoionaly,and mentally. the deeper aspects of that says are we prepare for such a matter letting go of attachments, fears, for the path ahead.

the five of swords, shows a person with three swords beating two others winning their swords. the swords he had at the begininig is in his right hand, he took their swords before that,
and now has two more to his collection. the hieophant teaching aspects are all through this card . the friend was teaching his friends how to fight, or the bully was teaching two noble people how to fight just to teach them fear like he lives in himself. the higher aspect to this is about balane in teaching. a teacher can hurt their pupils for all lives by too strong a teaching(priests for exaple) wrong teaching, such asprsonal beliefs by teachng the established teachings perverted by their own mind sets. the tower as a deeper aspects, shows all mindsets will be tested, and their foundations shakened.

the six of swords shows a journey of three peope across the lake with six swords on the boat. I fee they are thre aspect of the same soul traveling away from war for they made that choice,
the anima, animus. (female and male aspects) and the innerchild but they can not get away for whereever they go their troubles will follo them. this is because the devil is the higher aspects of these images. try as we might we can not leave behind our problems, (sometimes even in deaths) as we are too attached to them. the deeper aspects of these images shows the choice has given us hop we are not victams of the world and its strife nor the victim of another mental desires but are powerful embodimensts of our higher selves.

the seven of swords. some usually see this picture of a person who has struck the enemy camp (lookin at black and white pictures here so i don't now if it is night or not if i recall corectly ,, it was a blue sky right?). what if he is coming from a medevi fair with so many ideas he doesnt knw what to do with , the picture shows two swords in the ground and they symbolize ideas that stay behind. still these are a lot of ideas to carry around and by the time he gets where he is going he wil most liekly have three at the most and closer to two or one. this was his first trip o the medevil fair you see and so his mind was broaden. we have gathered the chariot before we leave , these ideas tell us where to visit, and what to do. one thing to remember less we come back to get thee swords fast they wont'be there , some one took them or turn them into a differn element. the higher aspect of this card asks so many ideas , can they stand up to the test ?, and the deeper level, how many of thes ies are illusios, and dections, in other word,weakversion of the swords,.

the 8 of swords,shows a person, blinded folded again, and surrounded by swords,and tied up. but she isn't blockd in by he mental poweress. instead she has tied herself up so she can't hurt no one. her swords are her postive thoughts blockin negatielty. it takes great inner strenght to withhold attack thouht, and see the ego with in and accept it and realize that ego itself is an illusion. the blindfold is not to be blinded to the truth but to not to see the past. so they can began to go inwards. the inwards is the star of hope for this person. all she is trying to do is see the inner sun within us all, and let the light clear away the debris.

nine of swords, person cryin at night swords over their head, is she worryng? crying, or resting her eyes. the ego is trying to convnce you i exist, i am you , i am a part of you. they are and they aren' ,, when we are free of the morta coil. the ego dies and the essence goes on. that is what the hermit is trying to clear away , his ego to become an awakened light
(jesus in the desert, buddha in his meditions, and other monks)
the higher aspects is the moon,the person is crying over the instincts they felt, even now after mental purging. we are getting to the core,the deep down illusion, so we can final travel upwards.

the ten of sword. to some this means stab in the back, betrayal.
but following the truth of the mind. there is two possible, aspects here.
one the ego has died, there fore all the old mental stuff is one body, (we know no card predicts death right?)
but consider this, the body has died, leaving the ego in the body, and the essence as moved into the light in the distance. the higher aspect of the ten of swords is the sun, the light, the presence and the person riding free on the horse on the sun card is a free spirt blasked in the light of the sun.
and the ego will be born again,when the cycle begins a new in another incarnation. 

bellaluna  04 Oct 2002 
This is truly awesome and I like what you are doing.This is very helpful to me and I'm going to have to print this out. Thanks so much for putting it into "laymans" terms,it makes it much clearer and easier to get a grasp on it. 

lupo138  04 Oct 2002 
sorry, I did not manage to read all of this, but just wanted to add a single thought: the world is 4 when you think of the four worlds in the Kabbalah for Malkuth. And the world is four, if you neglect ether and refer to the elements. The world (Malkuth) is 0, too, with regard to the Kabalah, as it is the beginning and the end of the journey. Maybe this is helpful for your interpretation of your dream :) 

HOLMES  19 Feb 2003 
i am giving this the bump so new members can read it :O)

i just wanted to share that since i made this post i made this the basis for most of my readings today.

and hopefully will start soon on a overall book for intermediate tarot people.
that will incorpate this system, with kabbala, numerology, astrology, symbolism and colours, and such.

the question for me is how much to put into one book ?

i been playing around with it,,
example just numerology and the system, and hope that it get published and sold so i can have the funds to study and write astrology and kabbala assocations of the system. ?

or just keep studying them all and in 10 to 15 years make a big 500 page

one thing i wanted to address is this goes only for the rider system so far yet two people have used it for the toth system interposing justic with strength and it work as well.

and the reason why i didn't do a court cards post is it is clear they do not have a number, (athough, kabalistical assocations imply they are connect to number 2, 3, 6 and 10,) and i have't touched astrology yet compared to court cards.
(hey i am just a poor native in his isolated house reading books eheh)

and an other is i wrote these post i did in like 5 days,, just one flow ,, no editing where it comes to the minors and the majors application of my realizations.
so clearly i would of have to sit down and take the one card a day or few days and get in depth in order for such a book to work.
ah yes while i did like the application of the majors to the minors, i never incorpated the keywords themselves off of slvia abahram keyword system,, i didn't like them as i couldn't under how she arrivaed at them.
so that is why i havne't updated it with keyword additions, i dont' think i will even try.

i know there is 22 cards, in the major , yet i went by the numbers on the cards themselves so thusly in the rider system and toth , there isn't a 22 assocations. 

mario  25 Feb 2003 

I write you because I use the same connections between major arcana from I to XVIII.

The strange is that I've not started with numbers, but with the Tree of Life's Sephirots ( I hope you've heard of it).

Howewer the sephirots are ten spheras from wich the divine energy emanetes all through the creation.

The first is " Kether ". It represents the union with God.
I connect this sephirot with "The fool".
There is a lot of reasons for this connection. I try to explain someone.
Who wil see God in his real light , he will go fool.
When God has came in real world, he comes like the fool - Jesus Christ. It' s true if you ' re a believer, but also if you are not. You have to think to the esoterical meaning of Jesus Christ' s story.
I write for you some thing i have read about Kether.
It doesn' t have form and doesn't have time.
There is not separation between the couple of opposites.
It belongs to this Universe but It doesn't stay in it.
It is called the not-existence, because it's a form of existence different from wich we know.
The number of this sephirot is ONE.
So i connect " The fool" with ACE. In "The fool" there are not distinction of opposite. It' s the absolute, The Unit.
Unit is also the reason because I connect only one card to this sephirot.

I can' t show you all the tree of life, tonight, but I think you already know it.
if you put the I to XVIII major arcana in the remaining nine sephirots tidily, you have exactly your outline of connections.
Obviously you have to connect "The magician" and "The Wheel" with the NUMBER TWO, "The High Priestees" and "The Strenghtness" with NUMBER THREE and so all.

It could seem strange that "The magician" is numbered I and is connected with 2, but it' s not. i try to explain my thought. Major and Minor Arcana numbers doesn' t work on the same level. The number on the Major Arcana means The 1st, the 2th and so all, while Minor Arcana number One ( The Ace) mean exactly unit, number two means distinction exc. You could think that Major Arcana begin to count at the beginning of time, while minor arcana begin to count before.
"The magician" is really the first in this universe, because before there was a different kind of existence ( not - existence), but his number is TWO because form this moment begin the distinction. With the magician there is no more unit, because there is, at least, "The unit" and "The magician". So it's number is TWO, distinction.
I think at "The fool" like what was before THE BIG BANG and at "The magician" like THE BIG BANG. I call "The magician" also "The pure act".

Howewer in the tree of life there are also three ways, I connect the last three cards to these three ways and to the three first court cards.
The last court card ( The King) has no major arcana connected, I can' t explain exactly why. I read "The King" like the union of Kether and Malkuth ( the last sephirot, number ten) because "Kether and Malkuth shine always over every crowned head".

I hope I' ve not bored you. I was touched from the fact that someone has found my same connections, starting from a totally different reflection. I hope also that my english is not so bad.


HOLMES  25 Feb 2003 
this system doens't take into account the spheres of the kabala,, as it is based on english additiong, subtractiong and addition and subraction of ten.
as the tree of life numerology is based on gemeteria which i don't fully understand.

i myself see the daath as the fool, essence, and i am exploring that energy.

truth be told on the tree of life the paths are major arcana, and the spheres are the minors in four differnt worlds.
however it is in the tarot the possiblity of applying the paths to the minors sphere is possibly by taking into consideration the root numbers.

it is possible to apply numerology to the tarot and it is much simpler then others may think as you only need to know the numbers one to 21 .
as the fool in the rider system as a value of zereo, and the card faces are 0 to 21.
the court cards have no numerological value just elemental forces which i point out some in my minor arcana thread.

for me if i was possible to apply any numerology to the court cards it would be kabbalah associations.
depending on where you put the value
page, 2 , 3 knight queen 6 and king 10 in the tarot of tree of life, yet it is clear that is only implied and not a true numerolgical value it is more like the full force of the elemental combinations of elemental nature of people (their mental, physical, spiritual, and emotioanal selves) vs their elemental surroundings,
and the golden dawn associates page with 10, knight 6, queen 3, and king as 2,

how is this valid, and which is valid ?
i am of the opnion that both are valid.
this is true for if one looks at the tree and the tarot as going away to the source and seeing all the aspects of creation then logicaly the king is the end of the kingdom.

yet if you focus is to ascend into the source, then the oldest soul level is your key and the king would be the closest you can get ,, but the golden dawn says the highest you can get soul level with individualism is number two , and at number one you unite with the full realized source at the crown.

looking more closely at how this system can be used in a tarot reading.. ( i put the next card upon the court card as it was shown in the witches tarot book by cannon reed which is misleading by her title as she focuses soley on the pagan view of the qabalah)

let me take two cards out of my deck as an example brb.
i ended up taking out five cards as it took two cards to get to the court cards.
three of cups reversed, ace of cups, page of rods, page of pentacles, the hanged man reversed.

the three of cups is a celebration, at a social gathering basicaly by the picture. at face value. looking more closely ..
three of cups is emperess who is emotioanl awakenins and being attuned to nature applied to the emotioanl world.
and so the three aspects of fate can be likened to the three differnt woman. going with my own flow here, i will lickened it to the three soul levels of young, middle, and ancient who are connected by an emotioanl bond in a time of celebration.
and since this is a post in my tarot realizations. i will apply the numerology( which to me is still simple addition and subraction and parerral numbers)
12, 13, 14, . are hidden in the three of cups.
in the three of cups is the hanged man, death , and balance.
in this time of celbrating, one must let the new view occur and realize that no matter how many more emotioanl parties and get together that we have, they will never again be this good. hence the death card is shown, even in good time change must be accepted. and thus balance is hinted at in temperance.
drink but don't drink too much. let down your hair ,, but let down your shirt ?
in the ace of cups reversed.
a new emotional beginning is ahead of you but you must let the blocks that are ahead of you by your choice go.
the magicain in manfiestion in emotioanal world means that we are making our own blocks by our own will, and it is a matter of personal will against our own higher self who says it is time for you to accept the abundance coming you way so we can move forward to the number two cups card.
and then again ,wheel of fortune, 11, 12. and even higher 19, 21. are all here in the ace of cups .
in this emotioanl world we can see hints of the wheel of fortune, justice, hanged man, (19=10=1.) 21(2-1) 1.
it is our own lack will in the emotiaonl world that let in the luck to come to us yet we are letting the universe, not applying our own will in co creating with as the hidden justice hints. and the hanged man says we are adhering to our old world seeing no reasons to look at things anew and shake things up.
the sun card also gives us the why,, the emotioanl cup of abundance is coming to us as the sun rays comes to the earth , it is simply time.
and the world card says , our emotions dictate our world ,, it is up to us how far we let it.
as our physical selves are just seein the creative spark of spirituality, and physical energy ( page of rods, and pages of pentacles, ) once we just but allow us to see thins from a new perspective. in the hanged man reversed.
i just had an image of the hanged man from the buckland roman gypsy tarot. which had a hanging rabbit.
therefore the new perspective is to allow sacfries in order of importance.
sure the rabbit could live,, but we need the rabbit fure for our moccasins, (going back into my native ancestory here) and be good for soup, to feed the people for the night.

and thus it brings us back to christinity. some people are hesistant to look at the christian view of the sacfrice of the hanged man. as it doesnt' have to mean sacfrice. yet we can look at it.
i remember jesus saying this is my bread , this is my blood, on tv. and said eat of me.
for him, regardless of if he was divinely inspired or not,
for him he was sacfricing his blood, and his own body for the good of the people to open their eyes, and their values in the forthcoming years. it was an way of getting his message across, his spirituality through.
it isn't just in him we see the ideal of self sacfrice for the greater good, in stories since time began we see people sacricing themselves for the child, for the woman down the street, for their country.. and

is not going to school, wasting years of productive lifes a sacfrice of the hanged man in order to get a nice worthy job ?

in fact right now, we are sacfricing our selves to learn the tarot by giving up time, money, ideals, and delusions, in order to learn the mysteries of the tarot.
such is life. ?

however in the hanged man is it really necessary to martyr ourselves ?we can simply hang upside down and say there is another way of doing things. 

The MY MAJOR TAROT REALIZATIONS, to me they are big) thread was originally posted on 29 Sep 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.

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