Aeclectic Tarot
Dedicated to the diversity and beauty of Tarot since 1996


    · Tarot Decks   · Tarot Meanings   · Tarot Forum   · Home

Tarot Decks Tarot Card Meanings Free Tarot Readings Forum Community What's New
Library Index

Quintessence

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 24 Sep 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.



Kitty  24 Sep 2002 
Hello All,

Since using the thoth deck and having a few books on the deck, inparticular the "Keywords for the Crowley Tarot" I have tried working out the quintessence at the end of the reading for further insights and suggested action to take regarding the matter

For those who haven't heard of the quintessence, it is the sum of the cards in the spread, the counting method depends, some people count court cards as zero, aces as 11 etc.

Anyway I wanted to talk about the quintessence and if anyone else out there is experienced with it? Do you find it valuable to the reading or not?

love to you all 


Alex  25 Sep 2002 
that's the person you're looking for. 


Kitty  25 Sep 2002 
Quote:
Originally posted by Alex
that's the person you're looking for.


thanks alex


Moongold - are you out there??!! :D 


Moongold  26 Sep 2002 
How are you? I am sitting at my desk in Richmond thinking of you at your desk in Toorak and the wonders of the Internet that we can cross the Yarra! (I hope you are the Kitty I think you are!)

The person who taught us about this was Mooncat2, who lives in New Zealand but is a frequent reader and contributer to Aeclectic and very experienced.

She picked a group of newbies up on the Reading Excange Forum one day and led us through some great learning exercises. She has also studied Tarot and numerology for some years and is wise and generous in her knowledge.

Mooncat encouraged us to add up the numbers in a particular spread, giving no numbers to Courts, and seeing what the reduction was. If the reduced number corresponded to a Major Arcana card, that indicated the quintessence of the spread. I have always done that since and found it to be very useful, often giving some additional insight. I call it the 'guiding spirit' of the reading.

I don't know much about the theoretical background to this but now this query has whetted my curiosity. Kitty, perhaps it would be good to PM Mooncat2. If my memory is correct she may have helped you with an Ankh spread once.

Good luck and I'll watch the thread with interest.

Blessings too...

Moongold 


Diana  26 Sep 2002 
edited 


catlin  26 Sep 2002 
When I discussed the Banzhaf stuff in my tarot circle the "quintessence" was also touched and tried out but I found it disturbing that there are so many different ways to count the cards, eg some count aces as 0, others count them as 11, others count court cards, others skipp them, etc so I left this subject.

Besides, I have another method to discover the things the querent usually does not want to name or is unaware of ;) 


Jewel  26 Sep 2002 
So what are some of the variations in counting? are aces 0 or eleven? or could they be counted as 1? ... what potential system of counting courts is used (if any)? would seem odd to leave them out. This is pretty interesting .... 


Major Tom  26 Sep 2002 
Quote:
Originally posted by Diana
One of the first spreads that people here in the French speaking part of Europe learn, is the Tirage en Croix, i.e. the Cross Spread. The first four cards are drawn from the fanned deck, and the fifth, which is placed in the center, is always the sum (reduced if necessary), of the other four.


You know I always used to use the majors only and I've never heard of this spread. *sigh* How Anglo-Saxon of me. How do you lay the cards? Can you give me a map? I'd like to try this out... 


mooncat2  27 Sep 2002 
Hi all,

Moongold, thankyou for drawing my attention to this thread - school break and visiting grandchildren haven't left me much time for visiting this week.

I'm no expert but have a fascination for the energy of numbers. I always add up the total numbers of a spread - to me this is the spiritual essence of a reading which on the surface may appear very ordinary. It brings to light the spiritual/pyschological forces at work in the querents life. The soul energy if you like. I find it adds real depth to a reading.

It wasn't something I really 'learnt' so I don't if there are rules - the way I do it is - aces are 1, court cards are 0, added together the numbers are broken down until they fit within the Major Arcana.

Love the word quintessence - much nicer than total card. Go with what you feel - i wouldn't be without my 'quintessence' card but I bet there are a lot of people who would disagree.

Blessings 


ladycj  27 Sep 2002 
Wow, I'm going to have to try this on my next spread. I've always felt like I was missing something when I do a reading. Maybe this is it.

Blessings. 


Sulis  27 Sep 2002 
Me too, I`m definately going to try this, I`m becoming more and more fascinated with numerology lately.

Love and light

Julie xx 


Pollux  27 Sep 2002 
Quote:
Originally posted by Diana
The Cross Spread. The first four cards are drawn from the fanned deck, and the fifth, which is placed in the center, is always the sum (reduced if necessary), of the other four.
The Tirage en Croix uses Majors only. And if by some chance that fifth card is the same one as one of the cards that is already on the table - wow, that's a very powerful message.

Weeeeee!!!!! I knew you would help me with that.
Yes, that's the spread I was referring to in the Alchemy thread.
The addition I was taught was the special meaning and use of the Fool as Jolly card to be replaced/amplified by the next, fifth card of the pack or fifth pick from the fanned deck.

Quote:
Originally posted by Major Tom
You know I always used to use the majors only and I've never heard of this spread.
How do you lay the cards? Can you give me a map? I'd like to try this out...

It's also called the Small Cross, or Simple Cross (in opposition to the Celtic Cross probably - ?).
Anyway, in my method, that I think it is the same for Diana (maybe for a matter of cources?) the layout is this:

........... 3

..... 1 ... Q/5 ... 2

........... 4

Personally, I use my variations of the spread. What I reckon of the general meanings is:
1) Favouring Card: positive influences, behaviours or people that will help the querent...
2) Opposing Card: negative affections, enemies, detrimental habits or attitudes to the query...
3) Present Card: where the querent stands now, moods, feelings, intentions...
4) Outcome Card: the most likely result of the previous conditions and influences, as the situation will develope...
5) Wild Card: message summing up, advice or suggested behaviour, special additional message...

I believe there are various variations, as usual. I have my Tribunal Spread for example (*LOL*). But, ye all scallyway tarologues know that: just make so that the spread fits your needs, and not the other way around... ;) 


WillieHewes  27 Sep 2002 
Hey, that looks like a really nice spread. I think I'll give that one a try. I never added up cards before, but it makes sense, kind of. What if the quintescence (sp??? :confused: ) is already part of the spread though? Or doesn't that happen?

Disnumeric Willie 


Pollux  27 Sep 2002 
Quote:
Originally posted by Diana
The Tirage en Croix uses Majors only. And if by some chance that fifth card is the same one as one of the cards that is already on the table - wow, that's a very powerful message.

That is the answer to your question.

The Qunitessence might indicate the "field" pf the spread on which it is suggestable to work for example. Or the card itself... It works as stressing. There might be specific elements at play that the querent has to be particularly careful with; or a specific "archetypal" issue or lesson that the querent must confront... 


Lee  27 Sep 2002 
Diana and Pollux, thanks so much for your descriptions of this spread, I'm printing it out and I'm going to try it (with the Gill majors and also the Marseilles majors). I particularly like Pollux's position descriptions.

Pollux, can you explain in more detail what you do with the Fool card?

-- Lee 


Kitty  27 Sep 2002 
Quote:
Originally posted by Moongold
How are you? I am sitting at my desk in Richmond thinking of you at your desk in Toorak and the wonders of the Internet that we can cross the Yarra! (I hope you are the Kitty I think you are!)

I don't know much about the theoretical background to this but now this query has whetted my curiosity. Kitty, perhaps it would be good to PM Mooncat2. If my memory is correct she may have helped you with an Ankh spread once.

Good luck and I'll watch the thread with interest.


Hi Moongold- I'm well thanks -ah yes I think I am the Kitty :)
Wow you are in Richmond - we are not far from each other at all! 


Kitty  27 Sep 2002 
Quote:
Originally posted by mooncat2

It wasn't something I really 'learnt' so I don't if there are rules - the way I do it is - aces are 1, court cards are 0, added together the numbers are broken down until they fit within the Major Arcana.

Love the word quintessence - much nicer than total card. Go with what you feel - i wouldn't be without my 'quintessence' card but I bet there are a lot of people who would disagree.

Blessings


Ah thank you Mooncat :)

yes - that is the way I count the cards too - I have found the quintessence to add depth to the reading 


kayne  27 Sep 2002 
Wow - this is interesting! Never done this before... I think I will use my new Gill deck to try this out on first, the minors in this deck seem to suit this method of reading.

Pollux: Do you use Majors only when you do the spread that you suggested. I feel uncomfortable using Majors only, I think I would use the full deck. 


Diana  28 Sep 2002 
edited 


Pollux  28 Sep 2002 
Quote:
Originally posted by Lee
Pollux, can you explain in more detail what you do with the Fool card?

I actuall have no memory of the why and why nots, and the "theoric" support for doing that - I'll try to find notes, or possible the books.
(You draw four cards, and place them in the way shown before.
Then get the 5th card from addition of the numbers. The Quinetssence card might have been drawn already, so that is a special mesage, a particular field or area that deserves more attention, and the interpretation will take that into account.)
If The Fool was picked out of the fanned deck or was the Quintessence card, after drawing the Q you can take a 6th card, to "complete" the Fool, to clarify the meaning, for additional insights. I used to do that, and it was very helpful at times.
I'll be back when I find out more... *rummaging in drawers*

Quote:
Originally posted by kayne
Pollux: Do you use Majors only when you do the spread that you suggested. I feel uncomfortable using Majors only, I think I would use the full deck.

Mh... I started using Majors only. And it worked well.
I started witha Marseille, were Majors are a TREASUREof symbols, whilst the pips are not so inspiring.
I simply keep using Majors only for the problems of counting mentioned by other memebrs before. How to consider Aces? And Courts? And the rest of it. Keeping to Majors is easier, and also considering that you just use 5 cards - it is tenable, the detail you get is good even though you draw in the "big dudes".
Using minors would surely make as much sense - my "Trial" spread is without Q and with Minors as well, and is just the same positions and meanings almost of the Simple Cross.
Yet if you intend to use Quintessence you must decide what your system of counting ad adding is, and I gather from past posts here there are variants.
You know how much unable iam at deciding... *LOL* Maybe a decision based on experience and practice could be made, but I am not that interested to experiment spreads at the moment, maybe in the future. 


Moongold  11 Oct 2002 
Quote:
Originally posted by Diana
I'm glad to know that the English word for doing this is "quintessence". Very nice indeed.

One of the first spreads that people here in the French speaking part of Europe learn, is the Tirage en Croix, i.e. the Cross Spread. The first four cards are drawn from the fanned deck, and the fifth, which is placed in the center, is always the sum (reduced if necessary), of the other four.


I found another version of this spread in Mary Greer's Tarot Mirrors (Newcastle Publishing,1988). Greer calls it The Quintessential Spread and it is structured as Diana and Pollux indicate (later in the thread).

Mary Greer's spread attempts to find the quintessential elements of any new project by incorporating the elements of suites in the actual spread as follows:

...................................1 (Fire)......................................

2. (Water)............5. (Quintessential ...............3. (Air)

....................................4. (Earth)...................................


1. What do I want to create?
2. How do I feel about what is happening?
3. What do I need to think about?
4. How am I using facts or experience as a basis for my stand?
5. How can I triumph?

If you draw a Wand card for postion 1, it would mean that your fiery energy is likely to be strong. If you draw a Water card in the Earth position, you could be floundering in a muddy mess. This of course would be up to you to interpret.

Card 5 (Quintessential) is obtained by adding up the numbers of the other four cards and reducing them. The highest qualities of the Quintessential card are at your disposal in your new project.

This is a great spread, don't you think?

The book, Tarot Mirrors is also really good and I can strongly recommend it to people learning Tarot. It provides comprehensive information and enables us to see the origin of the ideas expressed in Jette's Tarot Shadow Work .

Moongold 


Kazz  11 Oct 2002 
Look at this thread. It was started by Holmes. Scroll down to my post. I quoted the basics of Quintessence, that I found in a book that i have.


Cheers
Kazz


:TQC 


Diana  11 Oct 2002 
edited 


Kazz  11 Oct 2002 
Quote:
Originally posted by Diana
don't forget to read Holmes' amazing system of reading the cards. I'm still trying to absorb it all. It is, well, it is...... well, sort of WOW! :)
Oh yes!!! (sorry for going a little astray from your question Kitty), Holmes needs a bit of a rap here, like Diana says, it's amazing and I am still reading it. 


The Quintessence thread was originally posted on 24 Sep 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.

 


Tarot Forum Categories
· Tarot Decks
· Using Tarot Cards
· Tarot Trading
· Talking Tarot
· Reading Exchange
· Your Readings
· Tarot Games & Fun
· Professional Tarot
· Marseilles
· Rider-Waite-Smith
· Thoth Tarot
· Tarot Study Groups
· Lenormand
· Oracles
· Divination
· Spirituality
· Chat
· New Members
· Advertisements
· Forum Help


Aeclectic Tarot Categories
· Dark & Gothic Decks
· Steampunk Decks
· Goddess Decks
· Angel Decks
· Fairy Decks
· Dragon Decks
· Beginner Decks
· Pagan & Wiccan Decks
· Ancient Egyptian Decks
· Celtic Decks
· Fantasy Decks
· Beginner Books
· Lenormand Decks
· Rider-Waite Decks
· Marseilles Decks
· Thoth Decks
· Oracle Decks
· Doreen Virtue Decks
· Popular Tarot Decks
· Available Decks
· Upcoming Decks
· Solandia's Top Ten
· Top Ten Decks
· List All Decks

Who is behind the Aeclectic Tarot Forum?

My name is Kate Hill (also known as Solandia) and I'm a Tarot reader, deck collector, and lifelong student of the beauty and diversity of Tarot cards.

I created Aeclectic in 1996 to share my passion for Tarot with the world, and started the forum in 2000 so others could share theirs too. Contact me via email or here at the forum.

  Contribute to Aeclectic

· Add your deck
· Write a review
· Join the community

Get new deck updates via email
  Aeclectic Tarot Resources

Copyright © Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved.