Five of pentacles as advice

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 26 Oct 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Alex	26 Oct 2002
Some cards in the "advice" position really throw me off. The Devil, The Moon, the Aces... I would like to have your input on this one, the 5 of Pentacles. When in the advice position, would it be saying "you are not what you have" or "be carefull not to attach your self-esteem to material things too much"? I appreciate your input. Alex.

Teal	26 Oct 2002
I think I might need to see the other cards around it in the spread and know the question before I could comment. But I'm very encouraged because I've worked so hard on studying the cards that I know which card this is and can see it in my mind in both myRomani and my new little miniature Rider Waite without looking at the actual cards. And I can automatically associate it with a general meaning, too! Yeehaw!!

Keslynn	27 Oct 2002
Well one of the potential meanings might be to seek help from others, but specifically a spiritual authority or institution. It also might signify that you should seek the comfort of a partner or other close friend. I'm getting this from the typical image of the couple walking in front of the church. They could pull closer to one another or seek help/shelter in the church. :) Kes

Alex	27 Oct 2002
I know the rest of the cards give a tone to it but whenever I come accross certain cards in advice position I think "what the heck" and I am particuarly puzzled when it's the 5 of pentacles. Quote: Originally posted by Teal I think I might need to see the other cards around it in the spread and know the question before I could comment. But I'm very encouraged because I've worked so hard on studying the cards that I know which card this is and can see it in my mind in both myRomani and my new little miniature Rider Waite without looking at the actual cards. And I can automatically associate it with a general meaning, too! Yeehaw!!

lili	27 Oct 2002
Five of Pentacles a card of material and emotional insecurity in the advice position to me mean that help may be closer at hand than what the querent imagines. Sharing his problem with a sympathetic person who can give moral support may help to provide comfort and security that the person need at this time.

Umbrae	27 Oct 2002
Should one lock their minds up with the blatherings printed in a LWB, this would be a difficult card indeed. It signifies an us vs. them altitude; and that people struggle not through a lack of knowledge, but by having to live with poor decisions.

Thirteen	27 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae It signifies an us vs. them altitude; and that people struggle not through a lack of knowledge, but by having to live with poor decisions. Umbrae makes an excellent point. Remember that these are pentacles. Worldly goods, health, a job, the physical. Remember also that this is a 5, and 5's are lesson cards. How do you deal with tough times? So, 5 pentacles is tough times with the worldly goods, health or job. Usually, I read this card as meaning that they're gone. There's a feeling of poverty, and some shame that you have to rely on charity or help from insitutions (welfare or unemployment, for example--or 2nd hand clothes from the church thrift shop). So in the advice section, as Umbrae points out, this could read as advice to make good decisions, to plan for hard times ahead--to save your money, not buy expensive stuff, invest wisely, don't gamble, take on a second job or just get a check up and catch anything before it becomes serious. Else, you're going to be out in the snow, regretting a really bad decision. The card also, yes, does teach a larger, more general lesson that folk need to put less into their possessions and more into their spiritual selves. Because possessions come and go; there one day, gone the next. Jobs, too, and health. In the end, you've only yourself and those you love--and who love you. The simplist advice the card gives, however, is that things could be worse. You could be out of a job, homeless. In the advice poisiton, this card could just be saying, take stock of what you've got and be grateful. Whatever you're worrying about, it's not that bad. You've got your health right? And a job and a home. Be thankful.

Riversea	27 Oct 2002
Everyone has given such excellent ideas for this card. What popped into my head (as already stated by others) was that you may need to seek help to get through. You might be walking right past something that can help you, but in your misery you are too focused inwards to see it. Also, in the Glastonbury deck, the Five of Pentacles (Vesicas) is titled Endurance, and pictures a person waiting out a snowstorm in a cave. They've built a fire and are huddled in blanket. You may just need to accept your situation, be patient, make the best of it, and wait for it to pass.

Alex	27 Oct 2002
and see where I'm coming from. I have so far read mostly with the Mythic deck and the 5 of pentacles portrays this craftsman, Daedalus, running away from his town, at night, hidden under a cover. He'd killed a young boy and had to leave all his belongings behind. So the first meaning that comes to my mind is, as Umbrae pointed out, that you got to live w/ your choices. A second meaning, given by the book that comes along with the deck, is to be found in the relationship between material wealth and self-esteem: you are not what you have, you are not your health, family or town, you can start over again. I found it interesting to see how other decks yield the association between asking or accepting help with the 5 of pentacles. I used so far to associate this meaning with the 6 of pentacles only, because that's the next step in Daedalus' journey: asking for help and being on the receiving end of charity, and that allows him to start over again. Now, I checked the U-W deck and those people walking along the church: I think they don't ask for help because they've lost all their self-esteem and sense of self-worth. Thanks and I'll write down your oppinions in my journal. Alex.

Alissa	28 Oct 2002
Have I mentioned lately how much I love it here...? Just reading this thread really taught me things. More and more, I find myself reading piecemeal Tarot here and learning so much more (and retaining it!) than book learning. Having a dialogue, even by listening, is such a fantastic way to learn. I don't have anything to add to the Card's insight, but wanted to take a moment to post a quick thanks to the folks here who share their thoughts.

DeLani	11 Nov 2002
I recently got this card in the advice position too, so I'm going to jump in with my 2c. In the Waite/Smith illustrations, the people are "out in the cold" and are not getting help from the church (or whatever it is). I see it as some have already said, as in: don't be so attached to matierial things. But also, it can show the need to not need or expect help or validation from external sources, otherwise you will be out in the cold. In essence, "don't be needy." And don't look to institutions (charities, etc.) to help either. Their doors are closed. But I think the main thing is not to look for external validation. My take on it. DeLani

MeeWah	11 Nov 2002
Without knowing the rest of the throw, any outcome card is subject to risky speculation. Thus, any of the meanings & associations mentioned thus far for 5-Pentacles could apply. Due to its position, it could serve as a warning. Such as, to not deplete the personal resources. This could refer to *how* one utilizes or invests the personal energy; or even an attitude that influences the self-image. With the latter, it can be related to a poverty consciousness where one does not see what one really possesses or what is available--as in seeing a cup as half empty instead of half full.

Kazz	12 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Riversea You might be walking right past something that can help you, but in your misery you are too focused inwards to see it. I agree with you Riversea. This is a card of missed opportunities...it could be because of health reasons, lack of money or material things, or simply as said above by Riversea. So for the advice position, as Meewah said it can depend on the throw and the outcome for clarification, but I would say to be watchful for opportunities, no matter how small they are, as you don't want to miss the boat! :) Just my opinion :D Cheers Kazz :TQC

Alex	29 Nov 2002
to find out that some decks portray a couple in a position of wealth. I deck I'd never heard of, called "Stella" names the five of pentacles "the lover" and pictures a seemengly wealthy young couple. Looking at pictures of various decks I got the sense that their image primarily convey the idea that choices in love have material consequences, and that the image in the R-W deck conveys a meaning that is somewhat more generalized.

The Five of pentacles as advice thread was originally posted on 26 Oct 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.