minor meanings

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 18 Oct 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Ravenswing	18 Oct 2002
hi all-- from my readings, i've gotten that the meaning of the minors are astrologically based. (a diagram of this is in wang's 'qabalistic tarot') has anyone discovered any other methods used to determine the interpretation of minors? raven

Kiama	18 Oct 2002
For me, I usually just say what I see. This only works with illustrated Minors though. I know that with un-illusatrted Minors, you could try Numerology bases... If you look closely, you'll see similarity in meaning between all the 5's of the four suits, and all the 2's and 7's, etc... I think JMD would be the guy to explain this one best though! Kiama

cricket	18 Oct 2002
I've never used any astrologically based meanings for any of my cards. In fact, the only things I know about astology at all is that there are 12 signs and I'm a Capricorn. ;) I just use decks with illustrated minors and wait for something in the illustration to catch my eye and work from there. It could be some little detail in the background, or the general sense of the card, or the expression on a person's face, or... well, it goes on and on. Couple whatever pops out at you and work with that and the traditional meaning of the card together, and that's how I (personally) read them. This is by no means the only way or the -right- way to do it. It's just what works for me.

ihcoyc	18 Oct 2002
There is a lot more variety in the interpretation of the minors than there is with the majors. The majors, after all, are almost self-explanatory; complex symbols, to be sure, but exploring their nuances is more a matter of acquiring the "cultural literacy" to know them as it is of memorizing meanings. The minors usually offer no such clue; at least in the beginning, each minor contained only two symbols: a suit token and a number. I prefer a numerological approach that relates to the English-tradition meanings, but that tries somewhat to harmonize them and make them more consistent across the suits. There are a number of different ways this can be done, just as there are a number of different systems of numerology. Anymore I read almost exclusively with pip-card decks, which make this easier.

Laurel	18 Oct 2002
I would say that there are astrological attributions for the minors that add to the overall meaning, but I wouldn't say that the meanings are astrologically based in themselves. More like pepper added to the soup pot. :)

Thirteen	18 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Ravenswing hi all-- from my readings, i've gotten that the meaning of the minors are astrologically based. (a diagram of this is in wang's 'qabalistic tarot') has anyone discovered any other methods used to determine the interpretation of minors? Connecting them to the majors, of course. In its simplist form, that the Sylvia Abraham method, in a more complex form, it's Wang. All "Twos" are related not only to each other but to the High Priestess and her archtypical meaning, that sort of thing. The astrology, by the way, is heavily used by Crowley--and is pretty complex from my admittedly ignorant p.o.v. Not something I'd use unless I was much, much, much better at astrology. As I'm only "okay" at it, I stick, instead, to pictures and connections with the majors.

MystiqueMoonlight	18 Oct 2002
Thirteen you beat me to the post so to speak :D I was just about to same the same thing. It is very useful if you get stuck on a minor during a reading to refer to the corresponding Major. But do consider if you are to use this method that the minor is only one aspect of that major. For example if you have a 2 Cups the Major is II The Priestess, but her other corresponding minors are also 2 Wands, 2 Swords and 2 Disks. This can be convenient to add sustanance to your reading ;)

Ravenswing	18 Oct 2002
okay, i guess i may have asked the wrong question, so i'll try again. can anybody point me out to any interpretations of the minors prior to the golden dawn associations? trying to say what he means... raven

ihcoyc	18 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Ravenswing okay, i guess i may have asked the wrong question, so i'll try again. can anybody point me out to any interpretations of the minors prior to the golden dawn associations? James Revak's website has all of Etteilla's interpretations of all the cards, and an explanation of how they were adapted by the Golden Dawn as well.

MystiqueMoonlight	19 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by ihcoyc James Revak's website has all of Etteilla's interpretations of all the cards, and an explanation of how they were adapted by the Golden Dawn as well. Hhmmm now they're not quite the meaning I'm familiar with, but then again I haven't use Waite's system either. I'm a Thoth kinda guy :D

jmd	19 Oct 2002
... and ihcoyc beat me to a similar response. With regards to pre-Golden Dawn meanings, and apart from the Eteilla, a very important source is Papus's Tarot of the Bohemians.

MystiqueMoonlight	19 Oct 2002
hhmmm...I'm not sure where I read it, but it has been said Papus' work is questionable. Although I have read this book and it is very interesting. However I think Thoth and Riderwaite can't really be classified under the same umbrella.... of Golden Dawn. (take a look at my thread in Talking Tarot Comparing these 2) :) I'm not aware of the difference the Renaissance decks have by comparison....except that they do tend to reflect the social status of that era and, for me, there is not a lot of esoteric purpose in them...now that's just my own personal opinion so don't anyone get irrate with me :)

jmd	19 Oct 2002
Papus, Waite and Crowley each had their own esoteric initiatic orders, and each were at variance with the other two on at least some points. This, I think, is well worth remembering when reading any material which comes from one of those particular impulses. To say, then, that Papus is questionable I would certainly agree with, and would say the same for Waite and for Crowley. Each discuss Tarot from particular, different and, I think in some cases, very presumptious positions. Nonetheless, these three has given us the three fundamental Tarots of the twentieth century: Papus (with Wirth) the Wirth deck, Waite (with Colman-Smith) the Waite deck, and Crowley (with Freida Harris) the Thoth. Those decks, containing symbols, must of necessity transcend any written description which their respective co-creators may pen.

MystiqueMoonlight	20 Oct 2002
Further to my previous post regarding the renaissance type decks I should explain further from my opnion that these decks not only reflect the social structure of that era, which really is to be expected it was the Renaissance after all :), but also perhaps the christian, if not at least the patriachal system, of that era as well. Decks such as Thoth and RiderWaite assumed the "responsibilty" of focusing on the esoteric (perhaps paganism) aspect of the Tarot without specific social or religious conjecture. Does this make one system better than the other? Perhaps not. Any one of these Tarot systems are a mere reflection of their creators. The archetypal and esoterical purpose of the Tarot has existed long before anyone decided to paint them onto individual cards....

The minor meanings thread was originally posted on 18 Oct 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.