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The reading doesn't count when . . .

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 02 Oct 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.



Myrrha  02 Oct 2002 
1. Eight out of ten cards are reversed
2. The outcome card is the ten of swords
3. Eight of ten cards are reversed *and* the outcome is the nine of swords, upright.
4. Eight of ten cards are court cards
5. The cards just don't fit the question you asked about, no matter how you look at it.

Does this happen to anyone else? It seems like there are certain readings that you can just tell by looking at the cards that this is not a sensible answer but just static. Other times I might decide a reading "doesn't count" if it gives an answer that is overwhelmingly negative to a question that it seems important to keep an open mind about. Maybe I am only willing to hear what I want to hear? Not the best way to approach an oracle.

Myrrha 


Keslynn  02 Oct 2002 
I am of the opinion that a reading always "counts" excepting those times when ALL the cards are reversed. Reversals mean blocked energy so a lot of reversed cards means a lot of blocked energy. Perhaps instead of making it not count, you should do another spread about how to fix the energy blockage. As for Swords... bad times are a part of life as well as the good times. Without those bad times, the good times wouldn't be half so great. To say that a reading doesn't count because of a "bad" outcome card is ignoring a whole half of life as it is. To me, that's just plain unrealistic. As for the reading not seeming to deal with the question asked... you could always post it on the "Your Readings" forum for more insight. Or perhaps the cards are telling you something that you need to know but didn't know to ask about. I write all readings, including ones I don't understand, in my tarot journal. Often those confusing readings will make sense at some later point.

That's just my $.02.

:) Kes 


Alex  02 Oct 2002 
my marriage. Nothing so impossible about it.

Quote:
Originally posted by Myrrha
2. The outcome card is the ten of swords
Myrrha


That is hard. I got 6 out of 10 once, and 4 out of seven another time. Still thinking about those.

Quote:
[i] 5. The cards just don't fit the question you asked about, no matter how you look at it. [/b]


In this case, why isn't the QUESTION what is not right?

Regards

Alex. 


Mojo  02 Oct 2002 
At first I thought this was a humorous thread, but then I saw that you seemed to be serious.

Sorry, but dismissing the cards when they turn up differently than you want them to is a cop out. Read them as dealt or don't read them at all. 


jema  03 Oct 2002 
i am with mojo on this one. every time we dismiss a reading we are really dismissing ourselves as readers and querents. and those things tend to "stick with us"
eventually creating a block or the notion that no reading at all really "counts"

the subconscious is like a child, if you tell a child often enough that it is no good or doing something wrong then in the end the child learns how to do things to please you and becomes an eye-servant.
same with the tarot, in the end all the readings will be happiness and light and totally meaningless.
the harsh cards are a real challenge for us both in our lives and as readers, they have a purpose. they have to be there.

i find that sometime getting a lot of courts can mean that you are trying to please too many people, taking on too many roles.
i don't use reversals but i think what keslynn wrote is a good advice. 


Major Tom  03 Oct 2002 
I've got to echo Mojo:

Quote:
Originally posted by Mojo
Sorry, but dismissing the cards when they turn up differently than you want them to is a cop out. Read them as dealt or don't read them at all.


If you don't like the outcome of your spread it is time for a bit of tarot magick. }) 


Rhiannon  03 Oct 2002 
Quote:
Originally posted by Myrrha
Maybe I am only willing to hear what I want to hear? Not the best way to approach an oracle.

Have to agree with you there. Sometimes if you write the reading down and go back and look at it in a day or so it makes more sense. And try not to get too wrapped up in the idea that certain cards are inherently "negative". Sometimes we NEED negativity in our lives. And no matter what you do, bad things will happen... but good things often follow.

R :) 


Laurel  03 Oct 2002 
For me, every reading "counts". Oftentimes, the ones I understand the least on the surface later turn out to be full of the most insight when the hindsight kicks in.

If too many reversals are uncomfortable... maybe you should just flip the cards over, and try the same reading with everything facing up.

Laurel 


Melvis  03 Oct 2002 
I agree with Alex on this one...

Maybe you're not asking the right question!

I've been reading Rachel Pollack's new book, The Forest of Souls, and in it she decides to ask the Tarot the questions that one would never think should be asked of the Tarot, such as "Where does Tarot come from?"

So in your case, maybe you could ask the Tarot a more direct question. When you get one of those overwhelming readings, do a simple three-card throw and ask, "What question should I be asking?" Or, "What part of my life should I do a reading on?" Maybe you'll get some clarification that way.

Peace,

Melvis
:TSTRE 


ChrisTheObscure  03 Oct 2002 
I have the same problem. My life has been very rough lately, and it seems every time I do a reading in the past week or two there's lots of negativity, lots of hard choices before me, etc. It can be a little tiring.

But on the other hand, it's been extremely helpful to me because it's forced me to face things I wouldn't normally want to face, and I'm growing as a result of that.

So don't give up - even if it doesn't make sense to you or if it's overwhelming, jot down the positions of the cards and a few thoughts that come to mind, and visit it later.

C. 


Myrrha  03 Oct 2002 
Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisTheObscure
I have the same problem. My life has been very rough lately, and it seems every time I do a reading in the past week or two there's lots of negativity, lots of hard choices before me, etc. It can be a little tiring.

But on the other hand, it's been extremely helpful to me because it's forced me to face things I wouldn't normally want to face, and I'm growing as a result of that.

So don't give up - even if it doesn't make sense to you or if it's overwhelming, jot down the positions of the cards and a few thoughts that come to mind, and visit it later.

C.


Thanks for sympathizing. Yes, coming back to it later sounds like a good idea. The idea of asking a question like "what question should I be asking also sounds like it might work for me. Mojo, I *was* trying to be funny but with an element of truth as well. :)

-Myrrha 


DarkElectric  03 Oct 2002 
It usually means I'm holding the deck upside down...
No joke.
But seriously, I agree with the folks who say every reading counts. When I throw a spread that seems to make little, or no sense to me, I write it down in my tarot journal.( I try to write all of my readings down.) I have found, that what once looked like a senseless reading, actually didn't make sense AT THAT TIME, but as things progressed, the situation became a lot clearer, and what do you know...the reading made sense in the current context. I have avoided a lot of bogus stuff this way. As far as which card is the outcome, I'm curious as to why the 9 or 10 of swords would discount the reading for you. When I get either of these cards as outcome, sure enough, they are accurate. Sometimes too accurate. 


HOLMES  03 Oct 2002 
1. Eight out of ten cards are reversed
2. The outcome card is the ten of swords
3. Eight of ten cards are reversed *and* the outcome is the nine of swords, upright.
4. Eight of ten cards are court cards
5. The cards just don't fit the question you asked about, no matter how you look at it.

speaking directly to this list

1. the energy is blocked likey they say , the energy is denied for now
2. it is as bad as we can possibly think, yet does not mean it is phsycially bad, (less ten of pentacles is there as well), emtionly bad ( ten of cups reversed), or spirituality bad(ten of wands reversed). it means that it is as bad as we can imagine mentally however suppose the card before was nine of cups, or ten of pentacles. ? then it is bad as we can imagine yet it must happen for the wish to come true.
3. nine of swords (in old tarot days some say that was as bad as it can get however) we are worrying about the day tomorrow so it is about how will come no matter what the cards say we will owrry about and stress about it til it has been resoloved.
4. too many people influencing the situation, too many personal issues going on for you..
5. if they dont' fit no matter how they fit. write it down, it may make sense over time.

never forget there are days that we are off depsite what some may claim no one is a hundred percent accurate (merlin in excaliber says i never saw that )
(give the example of a person who can see spirits, surrrreee they see them , but are they interprating the spirit right ? a gesture may be literal figuritly)
( the devil card in the old days used to be the literial devil coming up to claim you for hell. (i wonder if it really was in the old days or just misconcpetion of general public who has not studied the tarot, ) now days it is about letting of our attachments and fears, fighting our own demonds that live within us) 


Kath  03 Oct 2002 
I think every reading counts, even the ones with a 'bad' outcome card. Sometimes we need to see the 9 or 10 of swords to give us a good kick in the butt and say 'Hey! If you don't do something about this situation, this is where it will end up'. The outcome is not set in stone. Take the 'bad' cards as a warning, use the information to either prepare yourself for the rough patch, or to do something and change the outcome.

As for all those reversals - lately when I read for my mum, most of the cards are reversed. She always looks so dismayed and I have to reassure her that reversed cards are not bad. I keep telling her that things are very 'up in the air' for her, and nothing is certain at the moment. There is a lack/blockage of energy around her, but that doesn't mean that the future is doom and gloom, and it doesn't mean that the reading is invalid either. The cards tell her where she needs to make decisions and get things happening. I think reversed cards can give some great advice :)

Cheers
Kath 


Trogon  04 Oct 2002 
I agree with Keslynn on this question. When I first began learning Tarot, the friend who was beginning to teach me had mentioned that getting all reversed cards is the only time that I don't continue with a reading. When this happens, it is my belief that things just aren't coming through. This doesn't mean you are not getting an answer though... I feel that it amounts to an "ask again later" or "clarify question" type of answer. :)

Interestingly, I've only had this happen in 2 readings now. The first was a reading for myself when moments after I'd dealt the cards, I was interrupted and wouldn't have been able to give the reading the attention it needed. The second time was a couple of days ago when a friend asked for a reading to see how the day would be. As I was shuffling the cards another friend came into the room and they began chatting... the querrent was no longer paying attention to the reading and all the cards came up reversed.

I don't believe I would apply this idea to the pulling of a single card. Then again, I personally do not do single card readings.

You're going to see unpleasant readings from time to time. There are negative aspects to almost every card in the Tarot. You can chose to ignore those types of readings, those ideas, if you wish. Personally, I chose not to ignore them, but to try to learn from them, or use them (when reading for others) to try to help people over the rough stretches of the road of life. 


Rhiannon  04 Oct 2002 
I'd like to add that I have done a 10 card CC reading where all but one card was reversed. (I did realized that I had forgotten to add reversals into the deck on purpose and that I was holding it upside down). I was about to scrap the whole thing... when I began looking at the cards and they made sense! I continued with the reading as it was and it was probably the MOST accurate reading I've ever given. So... don't be too quick to put those cards away if it's all reversals!

R :) 


MeeWah  04 Oct 2002 
Myrrha: In my view, every throw counts, regardless of the ending card or number of reversals. At times, due to transitional stages or some other reason, the cards may not seem as clear. Returning to the throw at a later time may provide the points of reference &/or insight.

The only time I discounted a throw that resulted in all reversed cards was when I was ill in bed. That was the one occasion where it was clear that *now is not the time*. That could well be the case with other throws that occur with all reversed cards as that in itself is also a message.

BTW: A belated welcome to the forums! I like your name very much. 


WolfSpirit  05 Oct 2002 
Hi Myrrha
Do you know the work cycle spread of Rachel Pollack ? It's a variation on the celtic cross:

1/2

3 4 5 6 7 8 9

1/2 : what covers/crosses you (as in cc)
3 past
4 hopes and fears
5 6 7 work (your actions)
8 result
9 outcome

If you get a negative outcome, you can lay 3 to 9 again and see what different actions would give a different outcome, so the spread is more an advice than stating a fact.

I think over all you should see tarot more as advising you: if you get 10 swords it does not mean something bad is going to happen, but that there might if you go on the way you are doing now, so you may need to make some changes. But of course you cannot control everything, everybody has his problems... 


Fuzzmello  05 Oct 2002 
I too believe every reading counts. What it counts as of course, is another matter.

The primary reason I find myself getting difficult readings is that my attention has wandered during meditation as I prepare to do the reading.

The next important reason is that my intention for doing the reading isn't clear. If I'm not sure what it is I want to find out, it's pretty darn hard to get an answer that makes sense.

Could writing down a few remarks about the circumstances surrounding oodball readings be the key to clearing up your problem?

Fuzz 


Myrrha  05 Oct 2002 
Quote:
Originally posted by Fuzzmello
I too believe every reading counts. What it counts as of course, is another matter.

The primary reason I find myself getting difficult readings is that my attention has wandered during meditation as I prepare to do the reading.

The next important reason is that my intention for doing the reading isn't clear. If I'm not sure what it is I want to find out, it's pretty darn hard to get an answer that makes sense.

Could writing down a few remarks about the circumstances surrounding oodball readings be the key to clearing up your problem?

Fuzz


Yes, that makes *perfect* sense because part of what I am talking about is the feeling that my intuition/inner guide and the cards are just not connecting, which makes the reading feel like static instead of a real communication. Maybe paying more attention to the preliminaries would help this.

Hello, MeeWah, thanks for the welcome!

Wolfspirit, that spread sounds like a really good one, I like the idea of being able to explore an alternatives within the same spread. thanks. 


Mystica  07 Oct 2002 
I think Melvis has a good idea with the 3-card spread to find out what question you should be asking. Also, I'm going to check out Rachel Pollack's new book, sounds interesting.

I do feel all readings should "count". I just don't think the Tarot should be approached in any other way. That would defeat the whole purpose of gaining self-understanding and clarity from the Tarot.

Just one person's opinion... 


Elle  22 Jul 2003 
I agree with those who believe all throws count. Seeing the negative appear in the spread is scary, yet I carry the images around in my head all day and meditate on them. Honest and clear interpretations usually surface.
The tarot does not lie - its all in interpretation and seeing what is really there.
I do reversals; the more meanings the better - gives increased depth, I think. I find them useful.
Elle 


Trogon  23 Jul 2003 
Just a bit of added information on this thread. In my first post in answer to this, I had commented that I had been going with the thought that when all the cards in a reading were reversed, that the energies are blocked. I have since altered that viewpoint somewhat...

I have had a few readings now in which all the cards came up reversed, but my "intuition" (for want of a better word) was to go ahead with the reading. I felt that I had gotten the cards that were supposed to come up in the readings, so I have gone ahead with them. The readings have been "spot on".

So my new outlook on this is: If all the cards are reversed in a reading, consider the possibility that the energies are blocked and it may not be a good time. If it doesn't feel blocked, then go ahead with the reading. 


anjocoxo  23 Jul 2003 
I always consider every reading as valid. I don't read with revearsals, but there was one time that one card came out reversed... and I read it as reversed. I always accept what the cards tell me, even I don't understand very well in the begining the message that's coming through...

Anjo 


Karenwhe  23 Jul 2003 
I must admit that I have encountered readings that didn't feel right, and that had nothing to do with negative or positive cards, reversed or otherwise; just felt something wrong.

I usually write down the cards and ask the querent to shuffle in my place and redo the spread. It usually changes the picture totally.

However, the interesting thing is that I went back after the fact to check on these readings and it turned out that both readings were correct and accurate. For some reason each reading showed a different aspect of the issue. So, why did it feel wrong in the first place? I don't know.

It is also true from my opinion that all good things have negative in them and all bad things have positive in them. You can have two readings done by different readers one can tell you all about the positive side of the issue and the other of the negative. But the events don't change, neither does the outcome, what changes is which side of the coin the cards show at that time; the positive or negative.

I read for a person who already had a reading done and it was very negative. The issue was all about going and doing freelance or independent work in their profession. When I did the reading it showed positive things as opposed to the previous reading. Now that all is in the past, the querent actually admits that both readings where correct - both the positive things and the negative ones were accurate.

Since those experiences I never forget that there are two sides to the coin in everything - the positive and the negative. The question is which side are the cards showing you at that time, what do you need to know at that time and what are you going to do about it.

Just my 0.000000001 cents. 


firemaiden  24 Jul 2003 
Sometimes I have picked cards for other people, but the cards I picked looked to me like they were supposed to be my cards. I grew suspicious that I had not been concentrating on the querant, but thinking too much of myself, so I started again, trying to think of the querant more strongly. :D

But, in those circumstances, it could have been that even though I thought the cards were " my cards" they might also have been just as meaningful for the person I was reading for. You just never know... 


catti  24 Jul 2003 
not all reversals are negative:
an example 8 0f swords - means you have pinned yourself down , jailed yourself in your thoughts , in a vicious cycle
reversed it shows that you are coming free of that cycle
same with 10 of swords reversed--- the worst is over sort of thing.
there is a way to look at things instead of the traditional bad/good duality -
negative-negative
negative- positive
positive-negative
positive-positive

to sum it up death is a good thing because if everone lived forever there would be no space or food.
or too much of a good thing makes you forget to appreciate what a good thing you have and that is bad.
good in bad / bad in good. it is always there.
just depends how you look at it. 


Thoth1884  24 Jul 2003 
I only have 1 deck that deals in reversals... But I did a reading for someone with that deck... and a lot of the cards were reversed... but you also have to understand.. that sometimes the reversed cards.. aren't always "negative" granted that is how they are displayed in the book, when you look up a definition... but you should always keep an open mind while looking at a reversed card... sometimes.. there is a different picture when it is upside down... that could help you determine what relevance it has....

for instance..

in one of my decks.... when the card is upright, the bushes look like bushes.... but when the card is inversed.... you can see a face of a person outlined by the bushes... so.. yes.. the inversed cards have the meanings in the book.. but when you look at the card... you see a person... which could represent someone in their life... just meditate for a little bit with the card and its position... and look at it closely.. it will help you get the intrepretation...

hope this helped...

~Danny 


divinerguy  24 Jul 2003 
I believe that everything counts, and that nothing is an accident.

If you're not sure about the reading because of a bizarre draw, write it down and if you can't figure it out after while, ask someone for help. A new perspective can't hurt.

Best wishes, 


The The reading doesn't count when . . . thread was originally posted on 02 Oct 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.

 
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