9 and 10 of Swords - What's the difference?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 23 Nov 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

divinerguy	23 Nov 2002
The 9 and 10 of swords. Can't find a bigger double whammy in the deck. It made me wonder what the difference is between these two cards. Both of them reflect adversity and despair - but why TWO cards like this? Here's my spin on it - the 9 of swords is more of an internally driven card, with a great portion of the pain being delivered by the self. The Rider-Waite card shows a person in bed, perhaps a nightmare scene. Seems as of its a pain from within. The 10 of swords reflects a more externally driven source of problems. The Rider-Waite shows a dead person OUTSIDE, perhaps a victim of battle with another. Seems like the source of pain is external. Does this interpretation carry any weight? Are the cards really different? Should I give up my Leopard print boxer shorts and go back to briefs?

Dark Inquisitor	23 Nov 2002
The 9 of swords is anxiety, shame & nightmares. Sometimes illness. The 10 os swords is getting stabbed in the back - betrayal, also a definite & unpleasant ending. (Can also indicate death or even murder.) So, these two cards are not very similar in my mind. Tarotphelia

Alissa	23 Nov 2002
Divinerguy, I agree with your take on the cards. And, being a Libra, i DO follow Tarotphelia's keywords when reading myself. So, here's my 2 cents on how I think they are similar but different : To me, 9 swords sometimes will also suggest acting the drama queen, and taking on martyr-like behaviour. People in this mindset are very much creating much of the despair in their lives, and purposefully so, and it's internally driven (emotional/spiritual). 10 swords, I remember reading from Joan Bunning's book, also has martyr like aspects of it. Yes, this person has suffered greatly at the hands of Others (external) and Others' actions. But, is *10* swords really necessary, isn't it a bit overkill, was Bunning's point. She likens the face-down figure to sit up and stoicly reply something like, "Oh no, really, I'm fine. I'll just lie here with these swords in my back. I'm used to it by now...." I think this is brilliant because I've heard others' who wear their traumas liek emotional badges, and relish pointing out how they've suffered. It's a bit of a mind trap though, for many I think. But this is definitely another type of "drama queen" like behavior, which creates a link between these two cards to me that I hadn't thought about. So, thanks for making me think about it, good question :D

JC	23 Nov 2002
The numerical cycle ends at nine, not ten. So tens are more starting over cards in the deck, and if you think about it, all of them seem redundant: the ten of cups shows a happy family on top of the nine of cups, the "you got your wish" card; the ten of pents shows another happy and this time wealthy family on top of the nine's wealth; the ten of wands shows a guy bent over under the weight of his wands on top of the nine's wary looking fellow. The tens are actually the flip side of the aces (1+0=1). They clear out all the energy of the cycle so that things can get started again. If you're using a Rider-Waite type deck, notice there's a light at the end the tunnel - the sunrise - on the ten of swords but none on the nine.

HudsonGray	23 Nov 2002
I understand your confusion. For me the Empress and the Queen of Pentacles were nearly identical.

VGimlet	23 Nov 2002
In addition to what's been said, all of which I agree with, I also feel as though the 10 can mean, the worst thing that could happen in this situation did. Sometimes I feel as though the 10 of swords refers to the past tense of an event, while the 9 seems more immediate.

allibee	23 Nov 2002
I'm sorry, but I don't agree with the assertion that there is anything similar about these cards, except for the element they find themselves in. The nine swords is showing someone who is suffering from internal torment, stress, worry, insomnia, waking in the night traumatised, making mountains out of molehills - this linking very strongly with the Moon - but the advice here is there is nothing to fear but fear itself. The ten swords on the other hand, reveals that your worse fears have been realised. Although I've never yet found it to mean that someone has died, it usually comes up as the dramatic end of situation. Hitting rock bottom. Suffering a loss. The advice being to let go as tomorrow is another day. Interestingly, if you're into minor/major correlations, 9 swords, links with 9 Major - the Hermit. Isolated and alone with his thoughts. Whereas 10 Swords links with 10 Major - the Wheel of Fortune. Accept the change, nothing stays the same forever, a turning point. As far as the minor 10's and the major 10, wheel, go, I see the correlation of wands and swords being the downside of the wheel, cups and coins being the upside. As far as minor 9's and major 9, hermit, goes, again I see the swords and wands taking on the negative energies of the hermit - cutting yourself off and building walls - not letting people in, and the pentacle and cup showing someone enjoying their own company, centred and self assured. Just my thoughts allibee

Kazz	24 Nov 2002
Hi all, I agree with allibee here. Although with the 10 swords, if it comes up in a 'what will be acheived' type position, it almost always indicates to me a warning of an accident, I just say to the client, be very careful driving home, be extra careful in the kitchen, workshop, etc etc. If death and a court card are in the spread, it would be a strong indication of a death by accident, murder, (painful) The 9 swords with the same cards can be seen as death by an illness or disease, and or died in hospital (can mean a hospital visit also) just my 2 cents Cheers Kazz :TQC

WolfSpirit	24 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by divinerguy Should I give up my Leopard print boxer shorts and go back to briefs? NO stick with the boxer shorts, leopard prints are so cool :D About the swords: I see the 9 as an internal problem, sometimes not even the querent's problem, it can be worrying about somebody else. The 10 is about the querent himself; it can mean the worst has happened and it's time for a new beginning (the sky is clearing, as someone pointed out), can also mean it HAS NOT HAPPENED YET and it's time tp be careful, take action or whatever (I added this meaning when I drew this card as day card and nothing unpleasant whatsoever happened, but I worked with more concentration on things that I...ahum...should have done earlier - maybe hard working is 10 of swords for me ? what does that say about my working ethics ? LOL)

Rhiannon	25 Nov 2002
Another vote for the boxers. I tend to agree that the 9 is about insomnia, worrying yourself to death. It's when your mind is going a mile a minute and you're stressed over everything in your life. I think this could be caused by external or internal stress. The 10 is about hitting rock bottom, the worst thing that could happen, but now it's over and you can climb back up. I also like the version from the Goddess tarot which is mainly about reaching the end of your cycle, reaching your goal but only after great hardship and pain. So, in a way you almost have to measure whether or not the gain from this adventure was worth the pain you had to go through to get there. R :)

dangerdork	25 Nov 2002
I'd pretty much go along with the internal / external interpretation too. Although the 9 of swords is "almost always bad" in my experience, I can recall more than once when it's simply about insomnia or staying up all night. I've had the 9 Swords come up a couple times tht I can remember where it just didn't make sense with the rest of the reading, and I asked if the querent had stayed up all night recently, and they said yes, I was studying for a final or some such. I can remember another recent reading where everything else in the spread was great, except the 9 of Swords, and the client had indeed been losing sleep worrying about things which really weren,t a problem at all...

paradoxx	25 Nov 2002
I use the Cosmic Tarot as reference to these descriptions. the 9 of swords is stress, war, conflict, usually from several external forces. the 10 of swords is internal problems, insanity, the cutting off of loose ends, supreme intellect with no emotion. The Cosmic Tarot depicts a man and a snake being impaled by flying swords, with a plane and tank in teh background ready for incurstion. The 10 of swords is 10 swords poing an proding the figure on teh card with a moasiac background breaking apart, the figure is blended in and out of the mosaic.

Umbrae	26 Nov 2002
They are as different as a leopard g-strings is from leopard boxers. The 9 & 10 of Swords – from my notebook: IX: Guilt, worries, making a mountain out of a molehill. Delay of plans, victim’s syndrome (poor pity me). Going through a dark night of the soul. If you cannot sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there and worrying. It is the worry that gets you, not the loss of sleep. Seeking temporary oblivion, but it helps not. The 9 of Swords can be a problem nearing its solution, or it could be a concept that is about to prove to be no longer true and/or useful. Health problem/illness/funeral. Rx: Coming out of a depression. The nightmare is over. Exploration of fears, denial or self-hatred. Legitimate fear or sorrow. X: In a rut. Cannot get any lower. You are NOT a doormat (martyr syndrome). Not open to new things. Accept yourself the way you are. Until you do, nothing will ever get better for you. In the 10 of Swords, the thought is complete, and you must accept the results, good or bad, and go on. It is about seeing your ship sink – and moving on, or/not standing on the quay crying over it. Rx: Recovery and rebirth.

Trogon	01 Dec 2002
This has been a very interesting and enlightening discussion. Timely too, as I've been kind of studying on these 2 cards. However, I'd like to toss another card into the mix here. I see the 8 of Swords as also being similar to the 9 in some respects. Refering to the RWS illustration; She has been bound by someone and left out with those swords behind her. But she is not fully bound, nor is she tied tightly. And I've always felt that that blindfold is rather loose, it wouldn't take much effort for her to free herself. Furthermore, the swords do not have her completely fenced in, she could simply walk away. Her situation is a mix of external and internal influences... she has been put in this situation by an outside influence - but her own fears are what keep her there. Last month their water bill was very high and they almost couldn't pay it... so this month they're becoming dehydrated and won't shower so the water bill won't be high. The 9 also relates to a person who's fears are disturbing their life. But unlike the 8, this person's fears are blown more out of proportion. They might even be baseless fears. This person can't sleep because they are afraid of the nightmares from the past. They can't sleep because they forgot to put the water bill out for the mailman and now it's going to be 1 day late. The 10 of Swords, to me (as mentioned by others) is the card of the "worst-case-scenario". The fears that were seen in the 9 turned out to be real and the worst did happen. The check for the water bill was not only late, it bounced and the water has been cut off. I see these 3 cards as very strongly connected. (I mean, obviously there's a connection and a progression through all the Swords, as with the other suits... but these were the ones that were being discussed... ;) ) In the 8, the person has been oppressed, been put down, and is now afraid to try to do anything for fear of it happening again. With the 9, the person is continually beating themselves mentally, perhaps even physically, over every thing that they feel they've done wrong. In the 10, they've gotten beat down badly. Kind of a "poor me - stupid me - oh no, not again" progression. Does that make sense?

The 9 and 10 of Swords - What's the difference? thread was originally posted on 23 Nov 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.