Court cards are confusing.

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 19 Nov 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Silencio	19 Nov 2002
Whenever there is court cards in the spread, I will be confused. I have read some articles about the court cards but still feel confused. I don't know should I read it as a person involve in the event or something else.

Woof	19 Nov 2002
I agree totally! I've been studying for about two months now and have the hardest time with the courts! Any help would be greatly appreciated. Woof

zorya	19 Nov 2002
you're not alone silencio. many people find court cards confusing. do they represent actual people, or aspects of the querent themself? you will find a great many differing opinions on how to interpret them. the question, position and surrounding cards will help you interpret them. but the real key is your intuition. what is the first thing that pops into your mind. there is your answer.

jmd	19 Nov 2002
To initially make things easier, it may be useful to treat the courts as personality types. As such, they become not cards dealing with what the world is presenting, but either who or what kind of individual or approach is best. In this sense, Kings and Queens may indicate that a decision needs to be made (or has been made) in particular ways (depending on the suit), Knights that striving outwards for further seeking understanding into the situation, and Pages for paying attention to what is being brought. As some do, (simple) astrological correlations may also be made - only on the presumption that one is already familiar with astrology, or it otherwise may complicates things further. Swords, if normally associated with Air, may indicate that the way a Gemini, Libran or Aquarian would do things is suggested, etc. The 'trick' is to initially begin with a simple correlation, knowing it has limitations and will later be supplemented - hence the traditional mature man for Kings, mature woman for Queens, younger man for Knights, and youth for Pages.

allibee	19 Nov 2002
Court cards are my nemesis too, for so long I just got so het up at the likelihood of getting a court card for a sitter, it just put me right off. BUT, there are two things to remember: 1) As someone already said, go with what your intuition says in relation to the question, throw and the spread; 2) Let the sitter decide whether it means more to them as a person or a situation, as in, 'ok, we have this person here who is a very active go getter, she's got her home and her career, and keeps them balanced beautifully, she's a real source of inspiration for others', etc. 'Oh, that's my sister', says the sitter, ' I so want to be like her......' Sorted! *LOL* ;) allibee

Kazz	19 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by allibee 2) Let the sitter decide whether it means more to them as a person or a situation, as in, 'ok, we have this person here who is a very active go getter, she's got her home and her career, and keeps them balanced beautifully, she's a real source of inspiration for others', etc. 'Oh, that's my sister', says the sitter, ' I so want to be like her......' Sorted! *LOL* ;) allibee That is what I do, if at first it doesn't "jump out at me" as anything else. But as also said here, say what is the very first thing that comes into you head in regards to the card, 9/10 times it is usually the right answer. Cheers Kazz :TQC

raeanne	19 Nov 2002
Hi all, For me the court cards have never shown physical features like “dark hair”, “fair skin”, and so on. That just doesn’t make sense to me. Some people do fine with Wands as brown hair, Cups as blonds, etc. Instead, I see the court cards as showing different aspects of the suit combined with the court level. Cups are emotion. Pages are youthful and childlike. The Page of Cups then would be a childlike emotion (or a person with this emotion) such as “puppy love” or the trusting way children love their parents. This is a very pure and innocent emotion. The Knights are high energy and dynamic. A Knight of Cups would be an intense lover, very romantic! The Queen is the mature female energy and would be the sensual, nurturer that tends to everyone’s emotional needs. The King is the mature male energy. This guy is so secure in his own sexuality that he doesn’t need to prove anything to anyone. He is the emotional “rock of Gibraltar” and a shoulder to cry on whenever you need him! He will not fail you in an emotional crisis! With the suit of Wands, the Page is the youthful creative energy that doesn’t obey the rules and thinks “outside the box”. The Knight of Wands is the guy who is the first one to work every morning and the last one to leave, he never runs out of energy. The Queen of Wands is the woman (or man) that keeps everyone’s spirits up and see that everyone has the materials they need to continue working on the project. The King of Wands is the leader that directs the projects. He tells everyone what jobs need to be done, and when. The same formula can be applied to the suits of Swords and Pentacles. When I say “woman” or “man”, I don’t mean that as an absolute. Men can fulfill the role as Queen of Cups just as a female can be a King of Cups. For me it is the person or situation that exemplifies that type of energy. As with any Tarot card, this is just the “tip of the iceberg” explanation and I usually see much more than this is a particular court card. But, this is a starting spot. I’m not sure I explained this very well but I hope it has helped give some food for thought to someone.

Liliana	19 Nov 2002
Yeah courts are a tough one, one way to help it is to get a deck with good courts, like the Spiral Tarot. Many decks courts dont seem to express themselves well, but the Spirals does :) :THP

january	19 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Liliana Yeah courts are a tough one, one way to help it is to get a deck with good courts, like the Spiral Tarot. Many decks courts dont seem to express themselves well, but the Spirals does :) Yes!! This is what I love about the Spiral. I feel too, that any astrological associations are clearly defined with this deck, i.e. Knight/Pentacles has to be a Virgo being admidst that field of wheat. The energy of the personality type is also well-communicated. However, the courts always baffle me, especially when I have a family of them in a spread. So the approach I take is if there isn't a specific person that comes to mind or makes sense within the spread, I use the energies of the court card to indicate a way to proceed, or to describe how the querant has been behaving in the situation.

zander770	19 Nov 2002
what i also always do is make great note of what card the "person of the court" is "looking" at. if a court card faces another one, then they are "talking." if they are facing away from one another, two people are "arguing." the presence of more than 2 court cards in a reading indicates that people in general are talking about you or the situation. knights indicate messages. what the message is about may be represented by the card on either side of the knight, and which way they are dignified ("ill or well"), et cetera . . . i "gleened" this from ms elizabeth bissette, a True Teacher! slan leat! ~Z~770 :})

Umbrae	19 Nov 2002
Page - air - The childlike aspect of the Suit element Knight - fire - The movement or the way the Suit element is used Queen - water - The Receptive quality of the Suit element King - earth - The Social quality of the Suit element

Silencio	20 Nov 2002
Whenever, I see court card(s) in my spread, I want think of what is it first and try to put the meaning together with the meaning of other cards but ... sounds odd when I sense something. Sometimes, I am so frustrated that I give up to use the minor and use the major to do another spread. Then, I revise the previous spread and see if I can get some meaning from the court card(s). It works sometime but sometime no. Do you think it is good to understand more about the court cards?

Diana	20 Nov 2002
If you're really having a problem with the Court cards (like so many of us), instead of doing another spread, have you tried drawing a clarifying card to help explain the Court card? I don't know, I've never tried this, but it sounds to me a better solution than doing another spread.

juice	20 Nov 2002
I'de like to hear your description of the swords and pentacle people Raeanne. I suspect that one of the reasons so many have problems with the courts, including me sometimes, is that the courts have more "textbook" meanings associated with them than other cards. If you see the 9 of cups, "oh that's the wish card", and all the other meanings are permutations, if by back door logic, of the phrase wish and be careful what you wish for. The queen of swords is a really loaded card. So many possibilities attached to her that she might even be divorced if you allow yourself to swallow that old world stuff about telling what people are like by looking at the color and shape of a person instead of how they move, act. speak, and carry themselves. Afterall all blondes are dumb, fat people are lazy, women are weak, children won't remember what you say, old are all used up, singles are perverts, and whites are thoughtless power mongers. There I think I've managed to list off most of the stereotypes I've had to live down.

Keslynn	20 Nov 2002
I second Liliana''s recommendation that you find a deck with courts that "speak" to you. This can make reading them a lot easier. Another thing I've noticed about working with courts, is that they tend to conform to your meaning of them. In other words, once you get something of a grasp on the personality types, they'll show up in a spread and mean how you conceptualize them. For example, if you think the Queen of Swords is a cold and evil woman in any circumstances (wince - though I hope not), then that's how she'll show up in your spread. I hope that made sense. :) Kes

raeanne	20 Nov 2002
Juice, Here's some comments on the Swords and Pentacles court cards: Swords: Page – A beginning student. This could be someone who is very new to learning. Since Swords can also mean “conflict”, the Page of Swords could be someone who is showing “Dennis the Menace” qualities. (“Dennis the Menace” is a US comic strip character that is a little boy who is always curious and does naughty little things, but he has a good heart and you can’t help but like him.) Knight – The Knight of Swords is someone like a medical student or someone that is very intense into studying. The studying doesn’t have to be traditional class work. It could be someone who is obsessed with learning anything new. A friend of mine got really intense with learning about UFOs. He was at the bookstore every week getting new books about it. No doubt he was showing all the signs of the Knight of Swords. From the “conflict” side, this person can be dangerous. He enjoys planning ways to get even with people he doesn’t like or people he feels have treated him badly. Queen – The Queen of Swords is the best teacher in the whole wide world! Just by being with this person you will learn new things that you never thought of before. As for the “conflict” side, the Queen of Swords can be very hurtful by saying those meaning things that cut you to the quick! King – This person could be a lawyer (is this called a solicitor in England?)! The King of Swords is very intelligent. There is a difference between “book learning” and “life learning” and the King of Swords could be an expert in either one or both. You can’t win an argument with this person. The King of Swords is like Star Trek’s Mr. Spock, he just is too logical! As a “conflict” person, this is someone to watch out for! Where the Knight of Swords will plan and scheme, the King of Swords will actually DO something to get even! Pentacles: Page – This is someone who is just beginning a financial endeavor. (I also think of a little kids lemon-aide stand with this card.) I see the suit of Pentacles as “survival” skills, not just money. This could be someone who is getting their first home/apartment or in some other way is just starting to support his/herself. A divorced person beginning to stand alone would fit in this category. Knight – A Knight of Pentacles is a real entrepreneur! In the USA there is a term for a young, upwardly mobile persons: yuppie. These are high-energy people who are gaining in financial resources. They have a tendency to overextend their resources and live in big luxurious houses. On a negative side, this could easily describe an executive for the Enron company! (Enron is a USA company that collapsed because the big executives were mostly corrupt and greedy. When the company fell, the people that got hurt the most were the common workers who lost everything. The big executives made millions of dollars!) Queen – The Queen of Pentacles is safe and secure. Financially this individual will not invest in any risky adventures. This person is also someone to go to when you feel afraid. She (or he) will comfort you and make you feel safe again! Where the Queen of Cups is the emotional comfort, the Queen of Pentacles is the survival support person we all need! King –The King of Pentacles is very secure in his own survival but he also has a great sense of civic responsibility. He will give money (or other resources) to help his community. There is a guy in the town where I live that doesn't have much money but he is the first one to volunteer anytime a school needs to build a new playground or anything so I still see him as a King of Pentacles. If the King of Pentacles has to suffer a loss, it will not ruin him, he will be able to re-build. There is a depth to this person that you can feel just by being in his presence. (I always think of Sean Connery as King Arthur in the movie First Knight when I think of the King of Pentacles. But, then again, Sean Connery could my King, anytime, anywhere!) I hope this gives you some food for thought.

allibee	20 Nov 2002
hands off raeanne, Sean's mine *LOL* allibee

paradoxx	26 Nov 2002
The prince of pentacle and the prince of cups in the Cosmic Tarot both have a striking resemblence to me as a real person. This indicates that the court cards symbolize teh human part of us and everyone else around us, they can be people and friends in general. learn teh astrology and the meanings do in fact become clear. now to go a little off topic but it does deal with a court card. in a playing card deck, the suicide king (king of hearts) has a knife in his head, sometimes the hand holding the knife has a different sleeve than teh kings own hand depending on the deck. is the suicide king the homicide king, and who could the killer be. My guess is the Jack of diamonds, in the deck i have examined a jagged diamond appears on the sleeve holding teh knife, and a diamond appears in the center of the flower that the Queen of Clubs has recieved. for divintory reasons, Since the King of hearts can relate to the King of Cups (representing cancer), could the King of hearts card mean that a person in question works from the heart rather than the mind, and sacrifices intellect for emotion. and did a forture teller draw the ace of spades death card for the king before his eternal resting.

Shadow Wolf	01 Dec 2002
I really haven't had any problems with the court cards. Someone said that you have go with your first impressions and intuition when reading court cards. I absolutely agree. Whenever I read a court card, I just get a feeling or sensation as to what the meaning is, and so far my intuition hasn't let me down. The trick is to trust you own inner voice. It knows the truth and it always tells you the truth........ whether you want to know it or not !!!!!!! If what is laid out in a particular spread doesn't make any sense to you, then try another spread or just let the reading rest in your mind and your heart and you will receive new insights. This has worked for me many times. I was amazed at how many new insights I was able to gain from 3-card spreads by just letting it rest a while. Hope this helps bring things into perspecitve for you!!!!!!!

The Court cards are confusing. thread was originally posted on 19 Nov 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.