Very bad and very good cards ?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 26 Nov 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Karenwhe	26 Nov 2002
I am not so sure that the title is the right one for this thread, but I couldn't think of any other. After reading with much interest the recent thread on The Tower and being all bad (which mostly I agree), I started seriously wondering, which card or cards are the good once - but only good not matter what position, reversed or not? Are there any? I believe all cards have good and bad and it really depends on the entire reading. But it seems that Death and The Tower, 9 and 10 Swords are only bad (so they say). They may be “necessary evil” as some would call this, nevertheless they are not pleasant and do not bring any pleasant events or news. So……are there any cards that you could say the exact opposite? And if so, which once do you think? In my opinion after thinking long and hard about it, truly I couldn’t find any. Is this a sad case? What does this say about us humans? Do we only know how to identify the bad and not the good?. Therefore I posted this thread to find out all the good stuff, so to speak.

dangerdork	26 Nov 2002
I mentioned in a recent thread, I think The World and The Sun are both good always, no matter what. Even though I don't read reversals, if I DID, whatever twist the reversal put on those two would still never interpret the card with blocked or negative energy... I also think the 9 of Cups is always good, but in that case the reversal meaning would HAVE to be "be careful what you wish for..." I would see both the 10 of pentacles and the 10 of cups, when reversed, as still showing the wonderful outcomes, but perhaps with obstacles along the way - so they're both ultimately good, and good energy to see those cards... Those are my two of coins' worth for now....

Diana	26 Nov 2002
Goodness. I don't think any card is good or bad. The Devil is marvellous when it comes to financial stuff (depending on the position, of course). And if you're crazy about sex, the Devil can be a wonderful friend. 10 of Swords - oh goody, it's time to move on, stop stagnating and get your backside off the floor (again, depending on the position.) The Sun? Can be creepy like hell when it shows that the person is being taken in by a guru and is caught up in a sect. Being "blinded" by the person. The World? Depending on the position, can show that you're completely hemmed in, living in your own personal fantasies, and if you don't bust out you'll end up completely paranoid or something. These are extreme examples. But honestly, there's no such thing as a bad or a good card. A card by itself means nothing.

Trogon	26 Nov 2002
As you already mentioned almost all cards have both "positive" and "negative" types of aspects to them. Even The Tower can have positive aspects in the aftermath of the upheaval indicated. The Sun, which I also generally interpret as happiness, joy, etc..., can have a negative aspect - if it were to occur as an opposing influence for example - then it could indicate, perhaps, that a person were blissfully unaware of things going on around them. Kind of walking around with their heads up ... er ... in the sand. Death, I do not see as necessarily negative or positive. It is, to me, very dependent on where it comes in a spread and the other cards around it. As for cards which tend to primarily carry a positive, happy, message, in my opinion there are several. As dangerdork already mentioned, The Sun is a very positive card. And even when it's reversed, it still carries much of that happiness. The 10 of Cups and the 10 of Pentacles are both pretty "happy" cards. The 4 of Wands also carries a positive connotation, even when reversed. In actuality, there are more cards which are, to my way of thinking, more positive than there are cards which are primarily of the troubling kind. I think that sometimes the negative ones stand out so much simply because there are so few of them. They also stand out because they are so unwanted even if they are part of the reality of life. In case anyone is wondering... I'm referring, primarily, to the Rider-Waite cards and the Röhrig Tarot.

Major Tom	26 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Diana the Devil can be a wonderful friend. The Sun? The World? But honestly, there's no such thing as a bad or a good card. *singing* "a friend of the devil is a friend of mine" All men know the devil is a friend. }) The Sun? Ever hear of being sun burned? The World? Ever hear of being world weary? Every card has good and bad aspects.

Laurel	26 Nov 2002
Generally, I find The Sun, 10 of Cups, 10 of Worlds and the Aces of all 4 Suits to be extremely positive. The degree of "good" however, can change. For example, in a relationship where someone is asking about finding true love, and I drew the Ace of Wands and The Sun, I would probably warn them that they're moving into a new and positive relationshi with -themselves-... and that's something they'll have to explore before they find the man or woman of their dreams. Good news, but not the news the querent wanted to hear and perhaps dissapointing or even "bad".

dangerdork	26 Nov 2002
A lot of people see card interpretations as "shades of grey." I would ask those people, does that mean black and white don't exist at all? How about a grey that's 99% black or white? I myself see the tarot as a spectrum - only when you mix all the colours of the spectrum together do you get the white light to illuminate the real situation... So as a rule, I don't think there are cards which are "all bad" or "all good;" but in tarot, as in most other things, there are some exceptions. OH! How bout this! I ALWAYS think bright, regal purple is pretty, but I almost always think, oh I don't know, pale greenish brown is ugly... That could be a way of seeing "good" and "bad" cards in my spectrum metaphor...

HudsonGray	26 Nov 2002
Right, there's some 'bad' sides to the sun. Too much of a good thing means you get sunburned, or things are too bright that you're not seeing reality at the moment, or you're too giddy high to get a good look at the situation. Or that the inner child is coming out when I need to really focus on the adult aspect at work. The Tower, that one can be 'good' too. It could mean you're finally MOVING into a new house or apartment! Or that divorce is finally going to be finished with! The Tower to me means mostly that something new has to be factored into my life & be worked around, whether that means a lost job, a new route to work, my sister's family is coming for a week or yes! I got into the arts & craft show & have to adjust my entire schedule to make merchandise for it. Maybe a friendship got shook up but will be rebuilt on more solid ground now. I don't think of it in shades of grey, OR white and black. Just as 'factors' that need to be considered. The 10 of Swords can mean my troubles are finally OVER WITH, thank gawd. The 9 of Swords can mean the dreams are all just stress related--to acknowledge them & then they're gone (like all those waitress dreams that still hang around after 14 years!). I guess it helps to keep an open mind & not always look at the white & black....get the good/bad out of your thinking & look instead at how the card actually fits into the interpretation. Look at aspects, not the color.

anjocoxo	26 Nov 2002
I believe that there are good and not-so-good cards. I don't do reversals, and I think that the bad cards are not BAD they just warn you of some unpleasents things that MAY happen. they are WARNINGS and of course that it also depends of the other cards around... here are my 2 cents... Anjo

Karenwhe	26 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Diana The Devil is marvellous when it comes to financial stuff (depending on the position, of course. Diana, this was very interesting... do you mind elaborating?

Mojo	26 Nov 2002
Last night, the Page of Cups left the heat going and the windows open. And he finished off the last of the ice cream. Bad card, very very bad card.

raeanne	26 Nov 2002
Mojo, I really, really needed a good laugh! Thank you!!

juice	27 Nov 2002
Mojo you are Baaaaad! :) That felt good. Yes black and white are shades of gray. But since ALL cards can represent several shades mostly at different times but sometimes simultaneously, you have to use your intuition, and probably the other cards, to tell if "this" card is bad now. I dare anyone to admit, honestly, that they did a 1 card reading with the tower or any of their always 1 meaning cards and didn't get a further reading.

Diana	27 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Karenwhe Diana, this was very interesting... do you mind elaborating? Karen: The Devil loves money. And the Devil knows how to deal with base, material things such as this. It may not always be very kosher, the way he multiplies his money, but he knows how to. He's your Swiss banker, par excellence (the kind that Ed Fagan is planning to sue for their doubtful dealings in apartheid South Africa :) *Diana hugs Ed Fagan* ). The Devil knows all sorts of tricks, you see. But he is powerful and knows how to manipulate. The Devil also has great powers of intuition, of divination, so he can sense where money is and where money isn't. If you've invested some money somewhere, and the Devil comes up, it could mean that you've invested wisely, and that your stocks will go up. Watch the market - it may soon be a good time to sell. But of course, you must look at the surrounding cards. If it's followed by the Tower, pick up your phone immediately and get your money out of where it is! If it's followed by the Hanged Man, just wait a while, things will probably improve (check out the following cards though, just in case). But if the Devil is followed by the Sun, for instance - you can book your holiday in the Seychelles, no problem. However, if the Devil comes up in the position of your financial adviser - look at the cards surrounding it. This could either mean that he is investing your money very well (maybe better not ask how, if you are very moral about your money), or it could mean that he's a crook. But if it's the latter, by this time, it may be too late anyway. Of course, all this is very simplified. But sometimes the cards are not so complicated as one makes them out to be. They can be as complicated or as simple as one wishes them to be.

Shadow Wolf	29 Nov 2002
I also don't think that there are good cards or bad cards. All of the cards in a reading are good, if they offer us the guidance we need. We don't like to see "bad" cards because that means that we need to work on something harder than what may be indicated by a "good" card. Is this making any sense ????? I don't know how else to put it .

MeeWah	29 Nov 2002
I do not see cards as "very good" nor "very bad", but as cards of *the moment*. As has been expressed elsewhere, every card contains a range of meanings from the extremes to the middling. A card can stand on its own or be modified by another card or surrounding cards. Thus, The Sun can refer to depression; The Devil can be encouragement to let one's hair down, to bite the bullet or to put one's money where one's mouth is; The Tower can be a reminder "to clean house"; so on.

divinerguy	29 Nov 2002
For me, I see the Star as a card which pretty positive in almost every aspect. She is a peacemaker, bridging the gap between worlds. She represents grace and innocence, and for me, the ultimate in beauty. She'd never turn on me.

Alex	04 Dec 2002
you may get The World. Not "going to die" but "ready to die" which is somewhat different. It can be good or bad, as anything. Again, I'll say this again: the cards convey associations and meanings. We give these meanings values (good, neurtal, bad). And values are not estatic. Values change with time and circumstance. One of the best things that happened in my life was a Tower. Quote: Originally posted by Diana The World? Depending on the position, can show that you're completely hemmed in, living in your own personal fantasies, and if you don't bust out you'll end up completely paranoid or something.

Damien X	06 Dec 2002
According to my opinion, which I think coincides with Dianas, the Devil is a great economic benefactor since he is associated with everything concerning the material world. He, to me, represents the go-getter-attitude without remorse. Perhaps a bit selfish, but hey - he's the Devil! :o)

Damien X	06 Dec 2002
And a contribution to the discussion about good and bad cards: This may sound very cliché, but the Tarot is after all the puzzle of life where owning just one piece makes the overall picture hard to get. I hope you all see my point of view...

The Very bad and very good cards ? thread was originally posted on 26 Nov 2002 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.